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Author Topic: P312 in Iberia  (Read 920 times)
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« on: December 06, 2010, 06:43:29 PM »

On another topic, the claim that I made about higher variance of P312* in France vs. Iberia is confirmed (Revised 12/7 after accounting for 2 Iberian members with null at 425).  Using the P312 project with the current data (minus multi-copiers), I get the following:

Spain/Portugal/New world Spanish
.247@51 markers, n=36

France/New world French
.30@51 markers, n=20

France is also higher in variance at the 1st 10, 18, and 25 markers, but I think 51 gives a more realistic picture of the variance.  Myres had .30 for France and .38 for Vaucluse, but with a much smaller set of str's.

I think France is still highest for L21.  If this holds, it suggests a movement of P312 out of France.  As for L11*, what little there is is widely distributed from western Europe to  Armenia.  However, in the Myres' data there is nothing to suggest an exclusively Mediterranean route from Anatolia.  If anything, it leans more toward an overland movement for L23-L51-L11.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 06:41:10 PM by MHammers » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 05:51:55 PM »

Here are a few excerpts from Jocelyne Desideri's conclusions of Bell Beaker dental traits:

Full study

"The emergence of the Bell Beaker culture in the western sphere resulted from the displacement of individuals from the Iberian Peninsula into Europe."

"Phase 1: Migrations of Bell Beaker individuals from the Iberian Peninsula toward the east, while the eastern domain is still occupied by the Corded-Ware culture."

From Iberia to ....France(Revised..again, see above post)?  Here is the current variance for 4 P312 groups at 51 markers: France-.302, Eastern Europe-.296 (n-14), Iberia-.247(revised), Italy/Switzerland-.18 (n-8).

"Phase 2: Part of the Corded-Ware on the edge of the phenomenon was individualized and adopted, by borrowing, some of the western Bell Beaker traditions. Diffusions of this new society-the Beakers-continued toward the east. At the same time certain eastern elements were diffused towards the west."

Is this when/where U152 and L21 emerge, towards the west?

Here are some variance numbers for the latest U106 data from U106 project:

.255 - SE Europe (Italy, 1Hungarian, and 1 Romanian), n-12
.252 - NE Europe, n-26
.252 - NW Europe, n-55
.25 - Central Europe, n-33
.24 - Scandinavia, n-29
.232 - Italy by itself, n-10
.20 - SW Europe, n-9

When comparing the variances of P312 and U106, they seem to have different population diffusions coming from opposite directions.  The common axis, though subtle, for their L11 ancestors seems to run in a line from the Danube to France(revised, see above post).  Interestingly enough, Myres found no L51 and L11 in the Balkans, though there are a few individuals in the various projects.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 06:44:45 PM by MHammers » Logged

Ydna: R1b-Z253**

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