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Author Topic: U152 and U106 in the new paper  (Read 1409 times)
alan trowel hands.
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Posts: 2012

« on: August 28, 2010, 03:42:09 PM »

the paper and U152 and U105

One speculation I recently made was the possibility that U152 was largely Germanic in origin.   Until this study the lack of proven decent prevalence of U152 in parts of the old Celtic world that were not later overrun by Germanic peoples (ii.e. Ireland, Scotland, Iberia and much of France) meant that there was still a possibility that U152's presence was down to Germanic (perhaps Suevic) tribes.  However, this study shows too much U152 in France and western France in particular to feel comfortable Germanic spread theory for U152. Indeed there would seem to be more U152 in France than Germany although it is not exactly spectacular in either.  I think on balance it looks like it must at least be partly, possibly mainly, Celtic. 

Looking over the results there is also the fact that U106 is strong in the south 17.6% and west 24% of Germany and the east of France 12%.  The strength of U106 in that area is not as that clade is usually described.  In fact U106 looks as strong in the south and west of Germany as it is in the north and east.  To be honest I had notice on the project maps that they were indicating a lot of U106 along the Rhine and in SW Germany.  This paper actually places A LOT more U106 than U152 in S and W Germany.  Again, when I compared the project maps early this year they actually did indeed indicate more U106 than U152 in south and west Germany.  So again, a trend which was thought to potentially be due to new world migration patters has proven to be real.  There is also a of U106 in Switzerland and Austria noted in this paper.  One very enlightening thing is that U106 is the high 18.8% (similar to SW Germany) in NE Switzerland but an absolute collapse to only 3.7% in NW Switzerland.  In the latter area where U106 suddenly drops U152 rises to 22.2% and L21 also rises to 7.4%.  It is very tempting to see that as some sort of boundary line in terms of Germanic settlement although there are a myriad of possible alternative reasons. I am not sure how Switzerland was divided up but all of the west including what seems to be the north-west is French speaking while the north-east is in the large German speaking area.   Someone posted something suggesting that the Brabant study also showed a big drop in U106 near the German-French speaking boundary. That is interesting and it does kind of suggest that the R1b1b2 element among the Gauls was largely a variable mix of S116* (including Iberian clades), U152 and L21 while U106 mainly entered the old Celtic world and Roman empire as a result of German movements.  There are of course alternative possibilities.
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