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Author Topic: R-M269 article on Holocene era founder effect on Central and West Europe  (Read 55399 times)
TomGull
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« Reply #150 on: September 17, 2010, 04:46:56 PM »

Argiedude, what should we think about your maps? As the overlapping of haplogroups downstream  R-L11* is in South West France, there is the origin? We should think to a Paleolithic diffusion, when that part of France had the most numerous settlements, but we are before LGM and this is too early also for me, and perhaps P312* of Spain is waiting for being decomposed in many subclades, and L176.2 seems from last data not to be Spanish, but from North France. But we shouldn’t forget that R-L11* and more R-L51* was centered in Italy, also from Myres’ data, and data of Italy (how to forget R1b1*, R-M18 of Sardinia, R1b1b2* also with those with YCAII=17-23, the pending R-L150- of Romitti, my R1b1b2a (S136+), R1b1b2a/DYS385=11-11 (Balkan but perhaps rooted in Italy)), are all darkened by the high percentage of R-U152, that (it is noteworthy) has different percentage in Italy but everywhere is about 50% of R1b, demonstrating an ancient uniform diffusion.
Anyway: Italy France or Spain, as long as they don’t speak any more of Anatolia, Middle East or elsewhere.


I'm not sure I understood this sentence correctly. U152 is definitely not about 50% of R1b everywhere. Which SNP were you referring to in this last phrase?   Thanks / Tom
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #151 on: September 17, 2010, 09:15:36 PM »

If those reported are the percentages of R-U152 on Y-DNA, as Italy has different percentages of R1b (more than 60% in North Italy, 40% in Central Italy, 25% in South Italy and Sicily, 17% in Sardinia), R-U152 is everywhere in Italy at about 50%  of R1b, and not of course of Y.

About R1b in Italy, the paper of Ferri on Modena found 67,7% of R1b. The conservative Garfagnana (Tuscan Appennine) has "Irish" percentages, and everywhere very ancient haplotype, like the I2* I found for Ken Nordtvedt and I have spoken about in another thread.

And the 32% in Corse (and Corsicans are genetically Italians) isn't probably a mistake or due to the few samples, as Corse, if I remember well, has abot 65% of R1b, and Corse was peopled by Tuscans during the Mesolithic and the percentage of R1b in Corse is the same of the conservative Tuscan Appennine.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 09:44:53 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-Z2110


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

TomGull
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« Reply #152 on: September 17, 2010, 10:22:26 PM »

If those reported are the percentages of R-U152 on Y-DNA, as Italy has different percentages of R1b (more than 60% in North Italy, 40% in Central Italy, 25% in South Italy and Sicily, 17% in Sardinia), R-U152 is everywhere in Italy at about 50%  of R1b, and not of course of Y.

About R1b in Italy, the paper of Ferri on Modena found 67,7% of R1b. The conservative Garfagnana (Tuscan Appennine) has "Irish" percentages, and everywhere very ancient haplotype, like the I2* I found for Ken Nordtvedt and I have spoken about in another thread.

And the 32% in Corse (and Corsicans are genetically Italians) isn't probably a mistake or due to the few samples, as Corse, if I remember well, has abot 65% of R1b, and Corse was peopled by Tuscans during the Mesolithic and the percentage of R1b in Corse is the same of the conservative Tuscan Appennine.

I understand now, I missed that you were commenting only on Italy. Thanks / Tom
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