World Families Forums - Can Richard (b.1570) belong to two haplogroups?

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Author Topic: Can Richard (b.1570) belong to two haplogroups?  (Read 3245 times)
Keith Sargent
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« on: February 05, 2010, 04:18:02 PM »

One pedigree shows Richard Sargent (b. 1570) to be the son of Hugh Sargent (b. 1530), but according to the Y-DNA results, that would mean both men belong to two different haplogroups, a biological impossibility!

Although Hugh did have a son named Richard, all that is known about that Richard was that he married a widow named Jane Green.  The Richard in the Sargent pedigree married Katherine Stevens.

The DNA results also indicate that Hugh (haplogroup R1b1b2) could not have been the father of Richard, since Richard was the father of William of Ipswich (b.1606), who is in Haplogroup E1b1b1.

And the DNA results agree with the book by Aaron Sargent, "Sargent Genealogy : Hugh Sargent, of Courteenhall, Northamptonshire and his descendants in England," published 1895.  This book is on-line at:
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 05:57:44 PM by sargentAdmin » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 12:16:20 PM »

Funny that this has pretty much been decided with DNA! I had to sort of laugh actually in first reading this.

 I always "thought" that the Richard Sargent that m. Katharine Stevenns was not the same Richard that was son of Hugh Sargent of Northampton, Eng. Goes to show you that many people pull names out of a hat, and say...AHA! my ancestor's parent's... merely because another line may have had a son, with the same Common name!

If you look at a map this would pretty much sum it up as the locations were quite far in proximity. Richard Sargent, who m Katharine Stevenns,  I believe was in Co., Somerset, near Exeter.  The same goes with the John that married Anne Orpin. I believe he is from the Hugh Sargent line, as well, yet others have attached him as a father, to the John Sargent in St Germans that married Martha Axford, and have this John the same man that married Flower Martin 2nd. There is a John Sargent that married a Flower Martin in Cornwall, and it may be that he is a relative of Digory Sargent, however I doubt he is the same John that married Anne Orpin, since that location is nearer to the London, England area. I could be wrong of course, but the locations of the people lead me to doubt the connection.

When people see that other genealogist's, have attached an unknown ancestor to a son, or daughter, and you have never seen it before in any genealogies,or books,  be cautious!!! Nine times out of ten, someone attaches them to their research because the times may fit. But one has to be a critical thinker,  locations play a big part the further back you research. There were no vast modes of transportation, going back. The choices were foot and horse cart. Ship passage was expensive. Locations play a very important role in your research! Look at locations and find out more about the families before blinding attaching someone's notes to a documented line.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 05:26:46 PM by sargentAdmin » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 04:07:27 PM »

I have to disagree, nothing has been decided yet except maybe your assertion that too many people attach a relationship without any real proof.

My name is Dickie, my mother is a Sargent and I have a Family Bible from the mid to late 1800's that details Births,Marriages and Deaths in my branch of the Sargent Family back to my Great Great grandfather Frank V Sargent who is listed in the Sargent Record by E. E. Sargent.  With these 2 references I feel I have a sound lineage back to William of Amesbury.

I wanted to find out once and for all if Williams father, Richard, was the Richard associated with Hugh, but to do this I need someone associated with the Reverend William of Malden.  It is established that William of Malden is a descendent of Hugh.  So I asked my Uncle Ken Sargent, the last male Sargent in our line to donate DNA, which he did.

The results so far are inconclusive.  The 10 samples associated with haplogroup R1B1B- are so disparate that you can't say any of them are related with any reasonable certainty.  Indeed 3 of them list Hugh as an ancestor, at least 2 of those are mistaken, and one of them lists William of Amesbury as an ancester when it clearly does not match mine.

With the internet today it is easy to find a family tree that says anything you want it to, but that does not make it true.  I have found lots of trees that list Hugh as the grandfather of William of Amesbury, I have my doubts, that is why I have chosen to test DNA as there are no records to prove the relationship, even DNA will not prove it, it will only give us a

I also do not hold geography in as high an esteem as you do.  Geography is but one factor among many that when taken together can help us make a case for or against a particular relationship.  The time period we are dealing with here saw a lot of movement of peoples both in England and here in America.  My own paternal Ancestors moved from Scotland to Ireland, then to America and from there to Canada and finally back to America.

Like I said, I have my doubts of the relationship of William of Amesbury and Hugh, but nothing here disproves it.

Fred Dickie
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 05:27:01 PM by sargentAdmin » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 06:01:07 PM »

I changed the subject title and edited my initial posting to make it more concise but have not edited the replies, only their subject titles.
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