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Author Topic: cccc configuration at DYS464  (Read 4392 times)
secherbernard
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« on: January 07, 2010, 04:29:19 AM »

From my WTY results, I have a cccc configuration at DYS464. Thomas Krahn told me this is definitely a signature that lets me exclude all R-L21 with a G-type allele from being a descendant of the first person in my male lineage that had the cccc haplotype.
Moreover I have a 14.3 micro-allele at DYS464 which is essentially a 1 bp deletion SNP in one of the 4 DYS464 amplicons. If the deletion is in the flanking region it is as good as a new SNP and could be used as a marker for a new R-L21 branch.

Until now, I was the only one L21+ with this cccc configuration. Erwan Gery told me yesterday that he has also the same cccc configuration at DYS464. He his L21+ L69-. So I guess that my L69 mutation is more recent than my cccc configuration.

Bernard
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:30:57 AM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

rms2
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2010, 01:17:54 PM »

From my WTY results, I have a cccc configuration at DYS464. Thomas Krahn told me this is definitely a signature that lets me exclude all R-L21 with a G-type allele from being a descendant of the first person in my male lineage that had the cccc haplotype.
Moreover I have a 14.3 micro-allele at DYS464 which is essentially a 1 bp deletion SNP in one of the 4 DYS464 amplicons. If the deletion is in the flanking region it is as good as a new SNP and could be used as a marker for a new R-L21 branch.

Until now, I was the only one L21+ with this cccc configuration. Erwan Gery told me yesterday that he has also the same cccc configuration at DYS464. He his L21+ L69-. So I guess that my L69 mutation is more recent than my cccc configuration.

Bernard


And Gery is French, too, so that is a very interesting finding.

We should order the 464X test to find out about this, correct?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 01:18:43 PM by rms2 » Logged

secherbernard
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 01:47:05 PM »

Yes, this is the result of DYS464X test.

Bernard
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

rms2
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 04:19:40 PM »

Yes, this is the result of DYS464X test.

Bernard


Thanks.

I was just looking at FTDNA's Advanced Orders menu. The 464X test is just $18.00, so I think I will order it very soon myself.
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rms2
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 04:29:43 PM »

Would you mind if I mention this on Rootsweb?
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 01:56:05 AM »

Yes, this is the result of DYS464X test.

Bernard


Thanks.

I was just looking at FTDNA's Advanced Orders menu. The 464X test is just $18.00, so I think I will order it very soon myself.
Yes, I did this, but found out later it would have been wise to order some other advanced test at the same time, only a few dollars more.  Does anyone know about this?  Is it DFS371???
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secherbernard
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 05:24:51 AM »

Would you mind if I mention this on Rootsweb?
Yes, it is a good idea if you mention this on Rootsweb.
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

secherbernard
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2010, 11:18:33 AM »

The DYS464X test is interesting because it shows not only the cccc configuration but also the .3 micro-allele. Gery has the cccc configuration but has not the .3 micro-allele.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 11:31:59 AM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Mike Walsh
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 11:48:26 AM »

I see where Richard S sent out a message to everyone in the R-L21 Plus project to consider the 464x test.  I think that is a good move.  It is inexpensive and the unusual 2c2g and 4c mutations are somewhat akin to SNP's in the rarity of their initiation events.   I think this all could help identify a clade with a close continental relationship  I think this will help the Leinster/L159.2+ guys identify more 2c2g and therefore "hot prospects" for L159.2 testing.

BTW, I'm already done the test and as a good asterisk guy should be, I'm the usual 3c1g.

Mike
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 12:06:42 PM »

The DYS464X test is interesting because it shows not only the cccc configuration but also the .3 micro-allele. Gery has the cccc configuration but has not the .3 micro-allele.

Is there some kind of cause-effect relationship with DYS464X mutations and L159/L69 mutations?   There is some relationship.  Is is coincidental versus cause-effect?

Many/most of the L159.2+ people are the off-modal 2c2g.  If L159.2 and L69.4 have some kind of close logical, gene relationship in that if you are L159.2+ you must be L69.4- and vice versa.  We have another off-modal 464X guy, 4c, who has L69.4+.
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rms2
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 12:18:37 PM »

I see where Richard S sent out a message to everyone in the R-L21 Plus project to consider the 464x test.  I think that is a good move.  It is inexpensive and the unusual 2c2g and 4c mutations are somewhat akin to SNP's in the rarity of their initiation events.   I think this all could help identify a clade with a close continental relationship  I think this will help the Leinster/L159.2+ guys identify more 2c2g and therefore "hot prospects" for L159.2 testing.

BTW, I'm already done the test and as a good asterisk guy should be, I'm the usual 3c1g.

Mike

You know, I sent that bulk email out, but I never got a copy from FTDNA or notice that they had approved it, so I was wondering if it actually went out.

I plan to order the test after January 15 (payday).

I'm sure I'll get the plain vanilla result, too, but it should be interesting anyway.
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secherbernard
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2010, 01:00:26 PM »

Bad news: FTDNA has changed the DYS464X result of Gery: he has now a cccg configuration!
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

rms2
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 01:34:04 PM »

Bad news: FTDNA has changed the DYS464X result of Gery: he has now a cccg configuration!

I got the email from Erwan, too. Yes, that is bad news and confusing, especially since I sent out that bulk email based on the belief that Erwan was cccc, too.

I still think ordering 464X is a good idea. I will do it after January 15.

I have written FTDNA about the change in Erwan's 464X result.
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rms2
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 03:16:54 PM »

One of the Irish Type III, guys, Reilly, kit N56434, is cccc. But he is L226+, and although Bernard has not been tested for L226, I doubt that he is L226+.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2010, 05:14:54 PM »

One of the Irish Type III, guys, Reilly, kit N56434, is cccc. But he is L226+, and although Bernard has not been tested for L226, I doubt that he is L226+.
I wish FTDNA had columns for SNP results as well as 464x.  That's part of why I do the L21* spreadsheet, because the project screens don't show everything and the MDKA info on the FTDNA screen is free form.
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secherbernard
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 03:43:07 AM »

I got the email from Erwan, too. Yes, that is bad news and confusing, especially since I sent out that bulk email based on the belief that Erwan was cccc, too.

I still think ordering 464X is a good idea. I will do it after January 15.

I have written FTDNA about the change in Erwan's 464X result.
This is the answer that I received from Thomas Krahn about the change of Erwan's DYS464X.
Quote
Dear Bernard,

Sorry for my slow answers. After I have received your e-mail Astrid has
reviewed Gery's DYS464X electropherogram. It turned out that it was a
typo and he was in deed cccg (and no micro-allele either).

Astrid has also reviewed N56434. He has in deed cccc, but no micro-allele.


Sorry very much for the confusion.

Thomas
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 05:53:27 AM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

rms2
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 09:20:10 AM »

Well, I think 464X is worth testing, so I will do it.
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secherbernard
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2010, 12:07:48 PM »

Well, I think 464X is worth testing, so I will do it.
These are the DYS464X results in R-L21 group:

I am the only one cccc configuration with .3 micro-allele
There are 2 other cccc configurations
There is one cccg configuration with .3 micro-allele
There are 52 cccg configurations
There are 18 ccgg configurations
There is one cc configuration
There are 3 cg configurations
There is one ccccgg configuration
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 12:08:19 PM by secherbernard » Logged

YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

OConnor
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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2010, 01:15:19 PM »

The DYS464X test is interesting because it shows not only the cccc configuration but also the .3 micro-allele. Gery has the cccc configuration but has not the .3 micro-allele.

Is there some kind of cause-effect relationship with DYS464X mutations and L159/L69 mutations?   There is some relationship.  Is is coincidental versus cause-effect?

Many/most of the L159.2+ people are the off-modal 2c2g.  If L159.2 and L69.4 have some kind of close logical, gene relationship in that if you are L159.2+ you must be L69.4- and vice versa.  We have another off-modal 464X guy, 4c, who has L69.4+.

There are not enough R-L159.2+ people yet to suggest "most L159.2 are ccgg."
I do not want people thinking that it only this "so called Leinster group who are L159.2+ with ccgg." Perhaps people will think it a waste to test for R-L159.2?

I suspect within R-L159.2 , ccgg will be a minority.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 02:19:01 PM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2010, 02:26:24 PM »

. . .
I suspect within R-L159.2 , ccgg will be a minority.

Probably a subgroup with L159.2 then.
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OConnor
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2010, 09:03:32 PM »

A sub group 47/67 from me.
Would you like to guess at the possible distance in years between us?

My highest match at ftdna is a Murphy at 36/37.
I hope to convince him to test for L159.

I was just wondering. Is there as much distance as 47/67 within the M222+ group?



« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 09:10:54 PM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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