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NealtheRed
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« Reply #275 on: July 08, 2010, 10:42:24 AM »

Regardless if the L21 in Iberia is situated in the North or scattered throughout the peninsula, Celtic peoples held sway there long before the Romans.

Iberia was populated by a hybrid Celto-Iberian people. Celtiberian was the language of the privileged class there, apparently. I'm sure L21 has something to do with that.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #276 on: July 08, 2010, 12:09:22 PM »

It's hard to predict when the results will come in. They all take too long, as far as I am concerned. I think Calvo's were predicted for July 19th, so they came in early. The due dates (sounds like pregnancies!) for the others are scattered throughout July and early August.

I don't think one can still say that L21 on the Iberian Peninsula is stacking up in the East or Northeast. Calvo's ancestor, for example, came from Andalucia in the Southwest, as did Trujillo's, and there are a number of others whose ancestors came from the west end of the peninsula.

Of course, Iberian L21 is younger than French L21 so far, so France would be the logical source.

It is interesting that we don't have even a single L21+ result from Galicia yet, where one would expect that we would be getting them aplenty.

I think that is interesting.  However, as we found in NW France, only a small amount of the distribution of L21 is explainable by sub-Roman British movements. It is strongly suggested that a similar but smaller movement took place into some areas of Galicia. 

I do not know enough about it but I wonder if the geographical patterning in Spain has not been really messed about in many areas due to the Islamic conquest followed by the reconquest.  I understood that there was a retreat towards Asturias then a slow re-expansion into the north-centre and then south.  I am not sure if that was just the aristocracy or populations in general.  However, it does strike me as providing an unusually dramatic context for considerable changes in distribution and messing up of any ancient patterns except perhaps in  a few areas. 
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OConnor
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« Reply #277 on: July 08, 2010, 08:36:41 PM »

I mentioned The Spanish March in another topic.
I don't think the idea was very popular.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marca_Hispanica
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 08:39:00 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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IALEM
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« Reply #278 on: July 09, 2010, 06:15:17 AM »


I do not know enough about it but I wonder if the geographical patterning in Spain has not been really messed about in many areas due to the Islamic conquest followed by the reconquest.  I understood that there was a retreat towards Asturias then a slow re-expansion into the north-centre and then south.  I am not sure if that was just the aristocracy or populations in general.  However, it does strike me as providing an unusually dramatic context for considerable changes in distribution and messing up of any ancient patterns except perhaps in  a few areas. 
That is a hotly debated issue in Spanish historiography, some Historians think that even in the Late Medieval period the preRoman Tribes survived and can be traced in the several kingdoms, not only Christians but also muslims. Other Historians think that the Islamic influence from north Africa was very heavy in Southern Spain. In any case the evidence from written sources is not conclusive, there is for sure some repopulation, also there is some migration of other Europeans that helped recolonized Southern Spain (for instance, the first Christian lord of the town of Elda, in SE Spain, where I presently live, was a german knight (c. 1280), and 100 years later the castle was infeuded to an English knight. However all we have is anecdotal evidence, not statistically significant data.
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MDKA Lope de Arriçabalaga, born c. 1390 in Azcoitia, Basque Country

rms2
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« Reply #279 on: July 09, 2010, 10:03:08 AM »

Here is a list of men of Iberian descent who are currently in the "L21 Pending (Test in Progress)" category on the Y-DNA Results page of the R-L21 Plus Project, in case anyone is curious.

1.  Batista  -   Ysearch 39ZK8 (has YCA=19-19 and 481=19)  

2.  Calvo  -  Ysearch GYFHF (in that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCA=19-19)

3.  Calzada - No Ysearch (in that Spanish cluster with 459=10-10)

4.  Campos  -  Ysearch 28TV2 (34/37 match for an L21+ Finn)

5.  Castillo  -  No Ysearch (33/37 match for that very same L21+ Finn)

6.  Caudras - Ysearch 7FT4W

7.  Crespo - Ysearch XCHJY

8.  Davila  -  Ysearch 3SZYY (in that Spanish cluster with 459=10-10)

9.  del Regato  -  Ysearch A4BBZ (has 617=13)  

10.  Fernandez  -  Ysearch 84MAJ (in that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCA=19-19)

11.  Mariño-Ramirez  -  Ysearch NR3T9 (33/37 match to an L21+ from Portugal)

12.  Mendonça  -  Ysearch GPPS3

13.  Robles  -  Ysearch G9CRT (possibly in the Spanish cluster mentioned above)

14.  Vela  -  Ysearch FQXZC


I cannot guarantee that all of them are L21+, but I think they all could be and that most of them are.


Davila, #8 above, is now officially L21+.

By the way, Calvo, #2 above, who went L21+ on Wednesday evening, mentioned to me in an email that there was an old Celtic hillfort and/or village in the vicinity of his ancestor's birthplace. The place was called Nortobriga.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 06:02:50 PM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #280 on: July 10, 2010, 10:49:29 AM »

Here is a list of men of Iberian descent who are currently in the "L21 Pending (Test in Progress)" category on the Y-DNA Results page of the R-L21 Plus Project, in case anyone is curious.

1.  Batista  -   Ysearch 39ZK8 (has YCA=19-19 and 481=19)  

2.  Calvo  -  Ysearch GYFHF (in that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCA=19-19)

3.  Calzada - No Ysearch (in that Spanish cluster with 459=10-10)

4.  Campos  -  Ysearch 28TV2 (34/37 match for an L21+ Finn)

5.  Castillo  -  No Ysearch (33/37 match for that very same L21+ Finn)

6.  Caudras - Ysearch 7FT4W

7.  Crespo - Ysearch XCHJY

8.  Davila  -  Ysearch 3SZYY (in that Spanish cluster with 459=10-10)

9.  del Regato  -  Ysearch A4BBZ (has 617=13)  

10.  Fernandez  -  Ysearch 84MAJ (in that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCA=19-19)

11.  Mariño-Ramirez  -  Ysearch NR3T9 (33/37 match to an L21+ from Portugal)

12.  Mendonça  -  Ysearch GPPS3

13.  Robles  -  Ysearch G9CRT (possibly in the Spanish cluster mentioned above)

14.  Vela  -  Ysearch FQXZC


I cannot guarantee that all of them are L21+, but I think they all could be and that most of them are.


From the list above in the past couple of days, Calvo (#2) and Davila (#8) have gone L21+, but Batista (#1) got an L21- result.

Here is the revised list of those awaiting an L21 test result.

1.  Calzada - No Ysearch (in that Spanish cluster with 459=10-10)

2.  Campos  -  Ysearch 28TV2 (34/37 match for an L21+ Finn)

3.  Castillo  -  No Ysearch (33/37 match for that very same L21+ Finn)

4.  Caudras - Ysearch 7FT4W

5.  Crespo - Ysearch XCHJY

6.  del Regato  -  Ysearch A4BBZ (has 617=13)  

7.  Fernandez  -  Ysearch 84MAJ (in that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCA=19-19)

8.  Mariño-Ramirez  -  Ysearch NR3T9 (33/37 match to an L21+ from Portugal)

9.  Mendonça  -  Ysearch GPPS3

10.  Robles  -  Ysearch G9CRT (possibly in the Spanish cluster mentioned above)

11.  Vela  -  Ysearch FQXZC
« Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 10:50:54 AM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #281 on: July 22, 2010, 08:06:24 AM »

Okay, here's another update.

Calzada (#1 above) went L21+, but we lost Caudras, Crespo, and Vela (#4, #5, and #11 above), unfortunately.

So, here's the revised list of those still awaiting L21 test results.

1.  Campos  -  Ysearch 28TV2 (34/37 match for an L21+ Finn)

2.  Castillo  -  No Ysearch (33/37 match for that very same L21+ Finn)

3.  del Regato  -  Ysearch A4BBZ (has 617=13)  

4.  Fernandez  -  Ysearch 84MAJ (in that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCA=19-19)

5.  Mariño-Ramirez  -  Ysearch NR3T9 (33/37 match to an L21+ from Portugal)

6.  Mendonça  -  Ysearch GPPS3

7.  Robles  -  Ysearch G9CRT (possibly in the Spanish cluster mentioned above)


So, of the original list of 14 I posted a few posts back, 3 (Calvo, Calzada, and Davila) have gone L21+, and 4  (Batista, Caudras, Crespo, and Vela) have come up L21-.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 09:05:59 AM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #282 on: July 22, 2010, 11:04:20 AM »

Looking at the map there still seems to be a couple of vague trends for L21 in Iberia:

1 the easten border area, especially in and around the basque

2 the area fringing Portugal but not much in the main body of Portugal itself.

No obvious explanation springs to mind. I wonder if it's possible the fringe around Portugal is indicating the edge of a largely invisible grouping in mainland Portugal in much the same way as the sw german group made me early suspect that this was just the visible edge of a  then-invisible block centred on France. What Portugal and the basque country do have in common with each other and most other strong L21 areas is a strong maritime tradition.  
  Were the L21 clans masters of the Atlantic and NW European metal trade in the bronze age? Perhaps with a particular strength in terms of maritime and major riverine transport. Certainly L21 hotspots may focus on Celtic areas but they also include other strongly maritime areas that by the historic period had non Celtic associations ie basque country and Norway.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 11:21:38 AM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #283 on: July 22, 2010, 10:09:14 PM »

One of our Spanish guys, Calvo, just got the rest of his 67-marker upgrade today, and his new markers revealed something pleasant: two new, fairly close (61/67 and 60/67) 67-marker matches, both with Iberians, one Spanish, the other Portuguese. I don't think I can mention their names, since they aren't in Ysearch or in a public database that I can find. You'll have to trust me on this one.

I'm trying to get hold of them to get them tested for L21.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #284 on: July 23, 2010, 10:56:52 AM »

One of our Spanish guys, Calvo, just got the rest of his 67-marker upgrade today, and his new markers revealed something pleasant: two new, fairly close (61/67 and 60/67) 67-marker matches, both with Iberians, one Spanish, the other Portuguese. I don't think I can mention their names, since they aren't in Ysearch or in a public database that I can find. You'll have to trust me on this one.

I'm trying to get hold of them to get them tested for L21.

any suggestion as to area of Spain?  I maybe overdo the art of trying to spot patterns but there does seem to be some non-random pattern to the distribution of well located L21 in Iberia. 


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« Reply #285 on: July 23, 2010, 01:01:12 PM »

One guy is definitely Portuguese (first name João), but I haven't been able to find him in Ysearch or a project yet, so I don't know if he's a mainlander or an islander. I also cannot find the Spanish guy in the usual places yet, and he has one of those composite Spanish surnames, making it difficult to know which one of them to go by.

Once they contact me, if they contact me, I will be able to find out more.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 01:12:39 PM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #286 on: July 27, 2010, 08:22:37 AM »

One of Calvo's matches (the Portuguese guy) that I mentioned above has joined the project and is now awaiting L21 test results. I'm waiting to find out exactly where his MDKA came from, but I think from the Azores, since he belongs to the Azores Project.

He clearly belongs in that Spanish-Portuguese cluster with 19=15,  459=9-9, YCAII=19-19, and 456=15.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #287 on: July 27, 2010, 06:45:01 PM »

The project map is odd if you ignore the Madrid dots.  Its sort of split into an eastern border group and a 2nd group which sort of surrounds mainland Portugal without much going into it.  Then in between there is this huge gap.  There are enough now to suggest this must at least be a real trend and is telling us something.  However, whether that is about ancient times or Iberian migration patters to the Americas I do not know.  Does anyone know what were the main areas where migration left Iberia from.  Most countries have areas which has an unusual amount of migration to the Americas:

Ireland-the south-west, west and north-west
France-the NW
Germany and adjacent-the Rhine areas
Italy-the south

At least that is what I am told (I am no expert)

So, is there a similar pattern in Spain and Portugal?


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OConnor
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« Reply #288 on: July 27, 2010, 08:13:33 PM »

I found this about Spain to Canada
http://www.multiculturalcanada.ca/Encyclopedia/A-Z/s12/2

The vast majority of those who crossed the Atlantic came from a small number of provinces in Spain: the Canary Islands and the Cantabrian coastal areas of Galicia, Asturias, and Santander. All had a poor and overpopulated countryside and emigration became a standard experience for people in those regions. Two other provinces, Almería and Murcia, in the southeast, also became important sources of migrants when the local mining industries collapsed. Many of these migrants were “birds of passage” or sojourners, young males, both single and married, who crossed the ocean in search of wages to supplement the income from a smallholding. Many hoped to “make America,” as the Spanish saying put it, and return home as indianos, people who had made a fortune.

Residents of Spain were among the very first Europeans to arrive in Canada. In the sixteenth century, Basque fishermen and whalers worked the waters off Newfoundland. Their activities are commemorated in place names such as Port aux Basques and Spaniards’ Bay and in the remains of graves, pottery ovens, dwellings, and even a complete galleon discovered by archaeologists. The Spanish presence on the west coast began in 1774.
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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« Reply #289 on: July 28, 2010, 07:48:14 AM »

In the USA, I think most of the Portuguese immigrants came from the Azores. I don't have a source for that, but I believe it is the case.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #290 on: July 28, 2010, 05:36:22 PM »

I found this about Spain to Canada
http://www.multiculturalcanada.ca/Encyclopedia/A-Z/s12/2

The vast majority of those who crossed the Atlantic came from a small number of provinces in Spain: the Canary Islands and the Cantabrian coastal areas of Galicia, Asturias, and Santander. All had a poor and overpopulated countryside and emigration became a standard experience for people in those regions. Two other provinces, Almería and Murcia, in the southeast, also became important sources of migrants when the local mining industries collapsed. Many of these migrants were “birds of passage” or sojourners, young males, both single and married, who crossed the ocean in search of wages to supplement the income from a smallholding. Many hoped to “make America,” as the Spanish saying put it, and return home as indianos, people who had made a fortune.

Residents of Spain were among the very first Europeans to arrive in Canada. In the sixteenth century, Basque fishermen and whalers worked the waters off Newfoundland. Their activities are commemorated in place names such as Port aux Basques and Spaniards’ Bay and in the remains of graves, pottery ovens, dwellings, and even a complete galleon discovered by archaeologists. The Spanish presence on the west coast began in 1774.


That is interesting.  Sort of suggests that Portugal is largely untested.  The way Portugal is sort of ringed by L21 but not much in it gives me a sneaking suspicion that migration patterns may be hiding mainland Portuguese L21.
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #291 on: July 28, 2010, 08:32:47 PM »

In the USA, I think most of the Portuguese immigrants came from the Azores. I don't have a source for that, but I believe it is the case.

There are a lot of people of Portuguese descent in my area. It has been my understanding that most came from the Azores as whalers or fishermen. I don't know how universal that situation may be in other parts of the country.

Is there any reason to suspect that Portuguese from the Azores are different from those of the mainland?
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rms2
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« Reply #292 on: July 28, 2010, 09:20:33 PM »

In the USA, I think most of the Portuguese immigrants came from the Azores. I don't have a source for that, but I believe it is the case.

There are a lot of people of Portuguese descent in my area. It has been my understanding that most came from the Azores as whalers or fishermen. I don't know how universal that situation may be in other parts of the country.

Is there any reason to suspect that Portuguese from the Azores are different from those of the mainland?

Apparently, there was some input from places other than Portugal in the Azores, but thus far our two Azorean R-L21 guys only match other Portuguese and Spanish.

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« Reply #293 on: July 28, 2010, 09:23:23 PM »

Okay, here's another update.

Calzada (#1 above) went L21+, but we lost Caudras, Crespo, and Vela (#4, #5, and #11 above), unfortunately.

So, here's the revised list of those still awaiting L21 test results.

1.  Campos  -  Ysearch 28TV2 (34/37 match for an L21+ Finn)

2.  Castillo  -  No Ysearch (33/37 match for that very same L21+ Finn)

3.  del Regato  -  Ysearch A4BBZ (has 617=13) 

4.  Fernandez  -  Ysearch 84MAJ (in that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCA=19-19)

5.  Mariño-Ramirez  -  Ysearch NR3T9 (33/37 match to an L21+ from Portugal)

6.  Mendonça  -  Ysearch GPPS3

7.  Robles  -  Ysearch G9CRT (possibly in the Spanish cluster mentioned above)


So, of the original list of 14 I posted a few posts back, 3 (Calvo, Calzada, and Davila) have gone L21+, and 4  (Batista, Caudras, Crespo, and Vela) have come up L21-.


Fernandez, #4 above, got his L21+ result this evening. I don't think there was much doubt that he would be L21+, since he belongs to a solidly L21+ Spanish-Portuguese cluster.
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« Reply #294 on: July 28, 2010, 10:13:22 PM »

. . .

Fernandez, #4 above, got his L21+ result this evening. I don't think there was much doubt that he would be L21+, since he belongs to a solidly L21+ Spanish-Portuguese cluster.

So, here's the revised list of those still awaiting L21 test results.

1.  Campos  -  Ysearch 28TV2 (34/37 match for an L21+ Finn)

2.  Castillo  -  No Ysearch (33/37 match for that very same L21+ Finn)

3.  del Regato  -  Ysearch A4BBZ (has 617=13)  

4.  Mariño-Ramirez  -  Ysearch NR3T9 (33/37 match to an L21+ from Portugal)

5.  Mendonça  -  Ysearch GPPS3

6.  Robles  -  Ysearch G9CRT (possibly in the Spanish 459=10-10 cluster)

7.  Ventura - No Ysearch yet (belongs to that Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCAII=19-19)


#7 is our new Portuguese guy, Calvo's close match.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 10:26:20 AM by rms2 » Logged

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« Reply #295 on: July 31, 2010, 11:58:59 AM »

I thought I should mention that Archuleta (Ysearch BXPKT) got his L21+ result yesterday evening. I already had him in the Spain category on the Y-DNA Results page of the R-L21 Plus Project due to his membership in that Spanish cluster with 459=10-10 (and his match with Romero, who had already tested L21+).

Archuleta is a Basque surname, and our Archuleta's ancestor came from Eibar in Guipuzcoa in the Basque country.

Now we have three L21+ guys with Basque surnames and ancestry in the Basque country: Archuleta, Arrizabalaga, and Olazabal.

Now I am wondering what sort of frequency L21 has among the Basques.
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« Reply #296 on: July 31, 2010, 02:07:16 PM »

Hopefully the academic obsession with the Basques when it comes to DNA will result in a study (preferably covering both those in both France and Spain) of the Basques using the full group of SNPs.  It certainly sounds a fairly modest goal.  

My feeling is there is an L21 minority among the Basques but it is probably heavily outnumbered.    How many of these L21 Basques belong to the cluster you identified?  In fact how many of all L21 Iberians are in and not in the cluster?  Is their any difference in distribution between those in an not in the cluster?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 02:08:02 PM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #297 on: July 31, 2010, 04:05:22 PM »

Hopefully the academic obsession with the Basques when it comes to DNA will result in a study (preferably covering both those in both France and Spain) of the Basques using the full group of SNPs.  It certainly sounds a fairly modest goal.  

My feeling is there is an L21 minority among the Basques but it is probably heavily outnumbered.    How many of these L21 Basques belong to the cluster you identified?  In fact how many of all L21 Iberians are in and not in the cluster?  Is their any difference in distribution between those in an not in the cluster?

We have 26 project members with Spanish or Portuguese surnames, and I know of three other men, two Spaniards and one Portuguese, who are L21+ but haven't joined the project, for a grand total of 29. Of those, six are in "Sampedro's Cluster", my name for the cluster Archuleta is in, because it was in searching through Sampedro's matches that I discovered it. There are several more members of that easily recognized cluster out there, but I haven't been able to recruit them.

Archuleta is the only Basque in Sampedro's Cluster. Arrizabalaga only has 12 markers and cannot currently be placed in any cluster. Olazabal is short on matches of any kind. He does not belong to Sampedro's Cluster.

Of the other members of Sampedro's Cluster who can trace their ancestry to Spain, one cannot identify any place more specific than "Spain"; another has an ancestor who was born in Bilbao, but who had a non-Basque surname; and the last of them has an ancestor who came from Cantabria. Two members of the cluster cannot get their y lines out of Mexico. So, of those for whom we can place pins in specific towns on the map of Spain, all three are from the Northeast, in or near the Basque country.
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« Reply #298 on: July 31, 2010, 05:37:30 PM »

I probably should also mention that second Iberian cluster with 19=15, 459=9-9, and YCAII=19-19.

So far there are four of L21+ our members in it and a fifth awaiting L21 test results. One of the first four cannot get his paper trail out of Mexico. Of the remaining three, two have Portuguese ancestry from the Azores, and one has ancestry from SW Spain, not too far from the Portuguese border. The fifth member of the cluster is of Portuguese ancestry, probably also from the Azores, but I'm not sure of that yet.
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« Reply #299 on: August 03, 2010, 08:45:38 AM »

Gomez, kit N16025, just got his L21+ result. His most distant y-dna ancestor came from Galicia. Gomez is not in one of the two clusters mentioned elsewhere in this thread. He has a 36/37 match with another Spaniard.

I am in Wilmington, North Carolina, this week, and this hotel computer is really slow, so I probably won't be posting much.
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