Who was the first Bergman?

[BergmansofPoland]

Hello
I am a Bergman. Haplogroup G2C /SNPM201 /DYS 425-Null. My family originated in the Austro Hungarian Empire.
   I can only trace as far back as my great grandfather, Nethanial, Prezes/Presses/ Bergman from the Town  Gorlice in the Voivodship of Małopolska. Jews werent allowed there until about 1750 so most lived in surrounding towns like Nowy Sacz and Krakow.
   There seem to be a great many Bergmans in the United States as there were in the Germanic countries.
    I was wonder whether the name Bergman, like subclades, was not a subclade of Berkman, or Burgman. Since Jews had to, by edicts in Germany, Prussia and the like, take on surnames by the 16th and and 17th century with their non Jewish neighbors already having started sooner, how can one really know when the surname kicked in.
  Nathaniel Prezes/Preses Bergman, probably born around 1855-1860s as I know for a fact my paternal grandfather was born in 1878 and allowing for early marriage and maybe early or not early child rearing. Thats all I know. There was never any talk nor mention of his father.

Most vitals that I see from the Austro Hungarian empire lack teh name Bergman as though it was near extinction, yet in America we have tons of Bergmans. Albeit most are probably Non Jewish, but surley before WW1 there must have been a  lot of Jewish Bergmans or maybe the names changed as I demonstrated.
   Ted Kendall bless his hardworking soul, has found a possible single ancestor to the G2C group of Jews.

Halpern    Zebulun Eliezer of Heilbronn b.abt. 1500- Out of the 67 markers I match 58 and if I go for the rest of the 111 markers I may be real close. My differences are only by one where the match is not exact.

In fact out of the 37 marker of the Levite tribe of the Samaritans on tap, I share 26 exact markers.

Im hitting my head against a wall. Based on what I wrote here, what would you folks do.

Is there a threshold where you would say, enough is enough, I will appreicate what I have learned and just be gratful that I increased my ancestral knowledge even if only a couple of notches.

Sorry to sound so pathetic.

Cheers to you all.



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[ezis]

I think there were many, many different first Bergman who were not related unless you'd go back many thousands of years.

As for who was the first of all the different Bergman lines to take up the name, I have no idea.

On my mom's side I have traced a Bergmanis line back to 1675 in Valmiera, Latvia. However, they were not allowed to have surnames until the 1830s so the name was taken up only then by that line (and not even all of the line ended up taking on Bergmann/Bergmanis since the rule there was that each brother could take on a different surname if the father was no longer there, often they would all take the same surname, but often enough not; in our case some eventually became Muller/Miller/Mullers, some Stinberg/Stinbergs/Stomberg/Stombergs/Steinberg/Steinbergs, some Luhs/Luhse/Lusis and some Bergman/Bergmann/Bergmanis and some we are not even sure what surname they eventually took on). The ones who took on Bergmanis all did so about 1834. The one of those who was born the earliest was born in 1756. So I guess you could say the surname itself we can trace as far back as 1756 in Valmiera, Latvia in a certain manner of speaking. It's a non-Ashkenazi line.

We haven't gotten the Y-group tested yet, but we know someone who would have the same Y-haplgroup as the 1675 founder and hope to get it tested.

[BergmansofPoland]

Thanks for responding. I did a further SNP test which brought me to SNP G-M377
I think a lot of our forefathers in the more recent centuries may have changed their name a couple of times to avoid immigration and forced conscription. My great grandfather had the name Preiss which means a person of ouststanding character, but the fact is that it is Nordic in origin.

Preiss Name Meaning
    German and Jewish (Ashkenazic): variant of Preis 1.South German: regional name for someone from Prussia, Middle High German Priuss(e). Compare Preuss.Jewish (Ashkenazic): variant of Preis 2.

My only assumption is based on Haplogroup travels that we started off in Lebanon/Israel then to Sicily, then onward to Italy on to Germany then Poland, Hungary, Ukraine, Romania, and Moldavia, and including the Ukraine and BeyleRussia. Almost like a map of the Jews getting kicked along from one country to the other until the ended up in East side of Europe.

Interesting is that Ted Kendall mentioned a theory he had that Ashkenazic families were actually born of only a few families and that the Sephardim were the mainstay of Europe as far as a Jew population goes. This would account for the numerous genetic issues that affect the Ashkenaz being pretty much inbred at the beginning.

I think there were many, many different first Bergman who were not related unless you'd go back many thousands of years.

As for who was the first of all the different Bergman lines to take up the name, I have no idea.

On my mom's side I have traced a Bergmanis line back to 1675 in Valmiera, Latvia. However, they were not allowed to have surnames until the 1830s so the name was taken up only then by that line (and not even all of the line ended up taking on Bergmann/Bergmanis since the rule there was that each brother could take on a different surname if the father was no longer there, often they would all take the same surname, but often enough not; in our case some eventually became Muller/Miller/Mullers, some Stinberg/Stinbergs/Stomberg/Stombergs/Steinberg/Steinbergs, some Luhs/Luhse/Lusis and some Bergman/Bergmann/Bergmanis and some we are not even sure what surname they eventually took on). The ones who took on Bergmanis all did so about 1834. The one of those who was born the earliest was born in 1756. So I guess you could say the surname itself we can trace as far back as 1756 in Valmiera, Latvia in a certain manner of speaking. It's a non-Ashkenazi line.

We haven't gotten the Y-group tested yet, but we know someone who would have the same Y-haplgroup as the 1675 founder and hope to get it tested.