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Author Topic: Updated Tree of R1a (by Semargl)  (Read 8372 times)
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Posts: 10

« on: October 14, 2012, 04:39:23 PM »

It highlights all the recent changes in R1a plus it hints at some possible splits within Z283 and Z280. The Z283 split has Z280 branching off from M458/Z284. Which if it holds up, would be a fascinating development considering historical and linguistic evidence as one would expect the more Baltic leaning Z280 would be more closely paired with the Slavic-leaning M458 or for that matter even with the Scandinavian Z284 given geography rather than M458 & Z284. Further up the tree The Z280 split takes a myriad of clades and nicely divides them into 3 major branches: Carpathian (Central-Eastern European), Z92/Eastern European, and a Southern Baltic /Central European branch.
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Posts: 406

« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2012, 02:40:46 PM »

I saw the Z93 phylogeny update on Facebook, and since you haven't posted the link here I guess I will.  It's far more detailed than the list of SNPs under Z93 that is currently on the ISOGG tree:

R1b Z196*
William Thomas Farrar, III
Project Coordinator
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Posts: 14

« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 01:20:49 PM »

I am the administrator of the Farrar Farrow DNA forum.  I am a lay volunteer and not a geneticist or biologist, and frankly there is much I don’t understand about DNA (big understatement)
Here is my situation.  There are 35 persons in lineage 1. Not all have the surname Farrar or Farrow, that is because some are descended from adopted persons, others perhaps false paternal events, and at least four of them who reside in England, apparently share a common ancestor who lived, at least in the 12th Century.
Of the 35 members in lineage 1, 16 of us have tested Z93+, some of us, who have more resources have tested Z94- and L342-.
It was originally thought, and it is  Farrar lore that the origin of the family was a Norman Henry  de Ferrers, a companion of Duke Wm in 1066 and a Domesday commissioner. And as such a great grandson of a Viking.
DNA has thrown that belief to the winds.
What I do know, from correspondence with the R1a1a and subclades administrators is that Z93+ (standing alone, and not a parent of Z94 and L342) was unheard of and not found in populations from western Europe and especially the British Isles, until we in the Farrar project tested out.
According to R1a1a administrators, Z93+ is Eurasian, and believed to be Sarmatian Scythian, and parent of Z94 and L342.
Most of those in Lineage 1,  have documented ancestry to a common ancestor either within the last 250 years or in the case of the Brits to a patriarch who lived in Midgley/Mytholmroyd, West Riding, Yorkshire in 1471.
There are three members, who share the DNA and Z93, but are not surnamed Farrar, and whose TMRCA is roughly 30 generations or the 12th Century. One of them is a Douglass, a Border Reiver surname, and whose ancestor came from Fife Scotland. A William Ferrers  Baron of Groby, married an Anne Durward McDuff widow of Colbran McDuff, 9th Earl of Fife.
However there is no documentation to establish a relationship between the Farrars and the Ferrers or de Ferrers.
The existence of Z93 in Tudor England is perplexing and a mystery (if it was Z93+ and Z94+) there would be an Ashkenazic connection, but there is not such a connection.
We are left speculating as to the origin of the Z93 patriarch.
Here is what has come up so far.
1. A descendant of an Alani (a Sarmatian Tribe) that was given permission by the praetor Aetius to settle in Armorica (modern Brittany) in Normandy. And a richly furnished Sarmatian Grave was found at Airan, in Eure,Normandy which is only 75 miles from St Hilaires Ferrieres, the home of Henry de Ferrers.
2. A Sarmatian Auxillary of the Roman Legion. Some 5,500 thousand of them served along Hadrians Wall, and there was a veterans barracks at the Roman Castra (fort) at Ribchester. Which incidentally is only some 17 miles from the Farrar ancestral home.
3. A Hungarian courtier in the court of Margaret Aetheling. Margaret was raised in Hungary as her father was in exile. She returned to England and was living in what is now Yorkshire, when Henry de Ferrers and William Peveril,  harried the north, to put down the rebellion of Aedwin and Morcar, sons of Algar who had pledged fealty to William but revoked that oath when they discovered the purpose of the Domesday survey (taxation).
Margaret and her court fled to Scotland, where she married King Malcolm (of Hamlet fame)
The non Farrars in the surname project who share DNA and SNP Z93 with the Farrars, share a common ancestor roughly 30 generations ago, which puts that common ancestor in the century or century after the Norman conquest of England.
The above are not the only scenarios , but they are the only ones that come to mind and that fit known facts.
There is of course a possibility of a survivor of the copper age, leaving his DNA but if that were the case, there would be a lot more Z93+ in the British Isles and Western Europe.
I  solicit responses and information
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