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Author Topic: Bell Beaker link to R1b confirmed by Ancient DNA  (Read 123009 times)
Richard Rocca
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« Reply #200 on: May 21, 2012, 04:44:52 PM »

I have the book and can check it when I get home. Did the poster provide a page number?

No.  Nor a title, nor a date -- Bernard Secher gave us this title, and assuming he has correctly deduced Moesan's reference, that's about 2004 (judging from the comments about it on Amazon).  I had found other IE studies by Sergent, but they were mostly about linguistic movements from the heartland eastward (esp. to India) and whether those involve migrations, conquests, trade routes, etc.

I would think that any direct link between Khvalynsk and Bell Beakers would be extremely big news in the archaeological community. Khvalynsk seems to be devided into an Early and Late phase, with the later ending a good 1,000 years before Bell Beaker.
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Jean M
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« Reply #201 on: May 21, 2012, 05:05:50 PM »

Jean, you should search the last paper about hg.J/T.

I have it. Not that I bothered to buy it. It looks to me like another misguided paper from Pala. But it is now available online from a university website, so I picked it up.  

I also have Behar et al, A “Copernican” Reassessment of the Human Mitochondrial DNA Tree from its Root (2012) and I did have a look at the date given for T2a1b1: 10946 years old i.e. 8,000 BC 9,000 BC. Looks like part of a star-burst of new subclades in T at a time of population expansion in the Near East with farming. What is the problem with that?  

The date of the mutation that creates a haplogroup is not the same as the date that said haplogroup arrives at a particular place. I'm assuming that  T2a1b1 arose somewhere in the expansion and happened to take the route through Anatolia to Europe, finding its way to Cucteni where it appears in aDNA.


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Jean M
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« Reply #202 on: May 21, 2012, 05:21:16 PM »

Bell Beakers ones was found in one, the Khvalynsk culture in Russia (stage Kurgan III, before -3000?) - if it's true, it's very important, isn't it?

The quote was :

Quote
that 'corded' ware was found in a lot of I-E cultures of the Steppes BUT also 'corded' + Bell Beakers ones was found in one, the Khavlynsk culture in Russia (stage Kurgan III, before -3000?)

What he seems to be saying is that pottery impressed with cords can be found in steppe cultures before the pottery known as Corded Ware to the north of the steppe. Also pottery with a waist and everted lip can be found in steppe cultures before Bell Beaker.  This is true. It is a point I made at some point in my text, but I may have taken it out again as too much pottery detail can bore my readers. :)

[Added] For those who have a copy of Anthony, The Horse, The Wheel and Language - see the bell-shape in fig. 12.9. That type of pottery evolved from the first pottery to arrive in Europe - the pointed-bottom Samara type, which came across the steppe from the Far East. See fig 13.5 for early Yamnaya ceramics including Khvalynsk-related. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 05:40:24 PM by Jean M » Logged
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #203 on: May 21, 2012, 05:21:55 PM »

10946 years aren't 8000 BC but 9000 and the expansion wasn't from Middle East, but this haplogroup was already European. T2a1b2 is North Caucasus/East Europe, then the expansion wasn't from Middle East, and times are older. I think you cannot constrain the facts to your theories, because in this case your theories will be irremediably defeated.

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« Reply #204 on: May 21, 2012, 05:29:47 PM »

10946 years aren't 8000 BC but 9000 

You are right. I have corrected my post. It makes no material difference.

We have no evidence in ancient DNA for mtDNA J and  T of any kind in Europe prior to the Neolithic. No matter what dates we put on J and T, that is the fact that makes Pala et al 2012 unconvincing. Yes - as a thought experiment, anything could have happened. But it doesn't so far look as though J and T actually did arrive in Europe as early as Pala would like. 

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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #205 on: May 21, 2012, 05:44:04 PM »

What are the physical characteristics of the latter Cucuteni-Trypillian peoples?  Let's look at both sides of the timeframe and cultures.   What are the physical characteristics of the Bell Beakers versus the Cucuteni-Trypillian versus the Yamnaya, particularly the Yamnaya of the Sea of Azov type.

Here is what the late Carleton Coon observed about the Bell Beaker type:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-V7.htm

Basically, there were two main populations of Bell Beakers.  Physically, the eastern one was more long, narrowed faced and mostly mesocephalic (medium crania).  This is the "Dinaric" type.  The later Celts were similiar to this type.  Around the Rhineland and Britain, they were more brachycephalic and wider faced.  All seem to have been taller on average than the previous neolithic people.  My guess is, this eastern type (R1b?) was partially the result of gracile neolithics(hence the narrow-face retained in eastern BB) intermarrying with foragers/steppe intruders in the northern Balkans/ Carpathian basin.  Of course, the introduction of milk drinking may have played a nutritional role.

What were the Cucuteni-Tripolye like? Were the people of the late Cucuteni-Tripolye people different than the earlier versions?

While I'm asking, what about early IE possible folks in Anatolia?  The Hittites?

Cucuteni-Tripolye were the gracile, short Mediterranean types.  Heads were not near as long as Corded or Cro-magon-like steppe foragers and also had short faces.  Average height about 5'3'' or 160cm.  They did have a brachycephalic minority with cranial indexes up to 80 which is similiar to BB.  I haven't seen anything different in the later period.  However, towards the later neolithic there were more brachycephlic elements emerging in the Globular amphora and Baden cultures who were not too far away.  This is also close to where the early ceramic influences in Bell Beaker came from.

Here is the page about Hittites and bronze age Anatolia:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-V02.htm

This is not to say that all IE folks were Brachyceplic or Mesaticephalic, but it appears that where ancient IE cultures show up, the proportion of long headed dolichocephalic folks goes down to make room for the broad and moderate head people.

For the western European IE types to have such a heavy quantity of R1b (without R1a1 in the west) that are also sprinkled with Bell Beaker types of skeletons implies to me that R1b did not come out of the Cucuteni-Trypolye (or other Old Europe/early Neolithic types), but if anything, went into it.  If the Hittites of Anatolia were gracile types that would impact my opinion, but it looks like they were not. Perhaps the Hittlties were just a second wave of R1b and the first one (dairymen in Anatolia) was gracile with the second (Hittites) more Steppes like.  I don't know. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how non-long headed Beaker guys showed up in Western Europe without their R1a counterparts, assuming R1b was sourced by Cucuteni-Trypolye.



P.S. - Is "do_e" where the underscore is an "s" a bad word in some language? Every time I post with that word it gets removed by worldfamilies.net.  It's strange. I've had to resort to using the word "quantity" instead.
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« Reply #206 on: May 21, 2012, 06:15:29 PM »

The problem is that no Y-DNA haplogroup determines the shape of the head, just as it doesn't determine hair colour or height.  Brachycephaly is associated with some Bell Beaker groups - those who radiated north of the Alps. It could have entered that group by inter-marriage with brachycephalic females, or even stem from just one brachycephalic female somewhere along the line.  

If we take it that R1b is associated with Bell Beaker, then R1b was carried by dolichocephalic men into Iberia. We also have R1b as well as R1a1a in Corded Ware. The Corded Ware makers were distinctly different from the brachycephalic Bell Beaker types.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #207 on: May 21, 2012, 06:28:46 PM »

I notice too that Coon says brachycephally was also uncommon in Anatolia in the Neolithic.  I am not sure where it was hiding in that period.  I think the key is that the bell beakers and indeed Copper age R1b seems to have been an extended clan spreading widely rather than some sort of migration so this striking but minority type among the beakers may have been a family look rather than a true population thing and perhaps for a century or so the type persisted but would have been doomed to dissapear, particularly if they used marriage over a wider area as a networking/alliance building tool.   
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razyn
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« Reply #208 on: May 21, 2012, 06:46:37 PM »

Bell Beakers ones was found in one, the Khvalynsk culture in Russia (stage Kurgan III, before -3000?) - if it's true, it's very important, isn't it?

The quote was :

Quote
that 'corded' ware was found in a lot of I-E cultures of the Steppes BUT also 'corded' + Bell Beakers ones was found in one, the Khavlynsk culture in Russia (stage Kurgan III, before -3000?)

What he seems to be saying is that pottery impressed with cords can be found in steppe cultures before the pottery known as Corded Ware to the north of the steppe.

The even more complete quote was :

Quote
in B.SERGENT (compilation of scholars about I-E) I red (surprised) that 'corded' ware was found in a lot of I-E cultures of the Steppes BUT also 'corded' + Bell Beakers ones was found in one, the Khavlynsk culture in Russia (stage Kurgan III, before -3000?) - if it's true, it's very important, isn't it?

What he seems to me to be saying is that when he read this (and I don't think that was in 2004, nor from Anthony 2007 -- though he may just have gotten around to reading such works), he was surprised.  And I think what surprised him was not the (ho-hum) corded ware with pointed bases, "found in a lot of cultures," BUT what came after the word BUT -- Bell Beakers (also), found in one (culture: Khvalynsk) -- and relevant to a thread about Bell Beaker links (although I'm fairly sure Sergent called them "Campaniformes").

Anyway, that's how I read it, and why I posted only the surprising part.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #209 on: May 21, 2012, 06:55:40 PM »

One thing I notice is that the bell beaker skulls are brachycephalic due to flattening of the back of the head rather than a wide head.  They actually seem to me to have a basically dolichocephalic head form with a narrow face, projecting nose, narrow forehead etc.  It really just the back of the head that has been flattened and widened.  That to me really does hint that this may be down to cradling practices and lifestyle.  I have read a couple of interesting websites that show how sensative babies are to how they are cradled and how much it impacts on head form and skull form has a big impact on face shapes too. 
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rms2
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« Reply #210 on: May 21, 2012, 07:00:11 PM »

I've said this before, but I don't think Cucuteni-Tripolye was predominantly R1b. I think when we get some aDNA from there it will be I-P37.2, E1b1b, and G2a.

Just my opinion.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #211 on: May 21, 2012, 07:01:46 PM »

In fact so much of the beaker head shape resembles positional brachycephally that you really got to wonder 

http://www.healthylittleheads.org/What-is-Brachycephaly.asp
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Jean M
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« Reply #212 on: May 21, 2012, 07:11:10 PM »

I've said this before, but I don't think Cucuteni-Tripolye was predominantly R1b. I think when we get some aDNA from there it will be I-P37.2, E1b1b, and G2a.

I agree that it seems unlikely to be solidly R1b. In fact I went for the idea that I2 was carried by local foragers of the Danube Basin who adopted farming from incoming farmers and ended up in Cucuteni-Tripolye villages long before it occurred to me that R1b could have been the same villages! That would account for the way that some I2+ seems to travel with R1b.    
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #213 on: May 21, 2012, 07:11:38 PM »

I've said this before, but I don't think Cucuteni-Tripolye was predominantly R1b. I think when we get some aDNA from there it will be I-P37.2, E1b1b, and G2a.

Just my opinion.

I am coming around to think that too.  The L23* variance map I posted from Rokus's blog (based on Myres I think) actually shows the higher variance band heading up from the eastern half of Anatolia, round the top of the Black Sea and into Romania.  The direction is unclear but thats the spread. The important point is that the variance is lower in eastern Anatolia and in fact much lower around the coasts.  So, I have started to wonder if L23* entered the Balkans from the east after a journey along the north shore of the Black Sea.  I notice that the fact the Black Sea was a sea is often not mentioned.  One of Jean's collection of papers mentions that they are now detecting a commonality of sorts in the assembleges on both sides of the Black Sea in the copper age.  Its odd that the possibility of using a boat doesnt get mentioned a lot when we are discussion the Black Sea. One thing I firmly believe is that the Bell Beaker people had a strong maritime tradition behind them.  I think there is very little doubt about that. So I would certainly feel that we need to be looking at some ancestral spot with access to a large body of water rather than deep steppe background. Which sea though I am less sure!  The Black Sea and Adriatic seem to most likely.  I would have said the east Med. too but Rokus's L23* map shows low variance around the Turkish and Greek Aegean.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #214 on: May 21, 2012, 07:18:02 PM »

I've said this before, but I don't think Cucuteni-Tripolye was predominantly R1b. I think when we get some aDNA from there it will be I-P37.2, E1b1b, and G2a.

I agree. In fact I went for the idea that I2 was carried by local foragers of the Danube Basin who adopted farming from incoming farmers and ended up in Cucuteni-Tripolye villages long before it occurred to me that R1b could have been the same villages! That would account for the way that some I2+ seems to travel with R1b.   

Does the apparently lower variance of L23 in east Anatolia and the Aegean not may you that the entry into Europe more likley to have been to the east of the Black Sea and then around its north coast to Romania etc.  I was trying to make sense of the L23 variance map and higher variance seems to link west Anatolia with the north of the Black Sea and then Romania.  I dont know what direction though.  It could have spread both south and west from some point north of the Black Sea or could have spread from SE Anatolia etc northwards then west.  The third option of Balkans to Anatolia and north of the Black Sea exists too. 
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« Reply #215 on: May 21, 2012, 07:36:59 PM »

I think there was a basic Mediterranean-type population inhabiting much of Europe before R1b got there, from the Neolithic villages in the Balkans to those in Iberia, France and even Britain. On the y-dna side of things, it was probably mostly what we have seen thus far from the various Neolithic sites: I2a (P37.2), E1b1b, and G2a.

I think the Paleolithic and Mesolithic remnants might have been F and perhaps some older kinds of I, and some of them will show up here and there.

I suspect R1b came up from Anatolia or perhaps even from the western steppe. If it came from the P-C steppe, then it probably left en masse at some point. The void it left was later backfilled by peoples who were mostly R1a.

These are just my opinions. I could be wrong, of course.
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Jean M
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« Reply #216 on: May 21, 2012, 07:37:11 PM »

Does the apparently lower variance of L23 in east Anatolia and the Aegean

I don't pay much attention to modern DNA as a guide to migrations so far back except in very broad outline - continent-wide say, or broad correlations with language families and such-like - because millennia of migrations have blurred the detail of the picture. The number of IE-speakers who have tramped to and fro over  Anatolia have not left us a pristine reflection in modern DNA of the situation c. 6000 BC.    

I'm interested in the fact that R1b appears to spread from east to west on three counts - earlier subclades in Asia than Europe, greater variance in Asia of R1b (M343) overall (Herrera 2011), and the Surfing effect noted by Chiaroni. For the detail of how R1b might have moved west, I looked at the archaeology and linguistics.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #217 on: May 21, 2012, 08:04:17 PM »

I think there was a basic Mediterranean-type population inhabiting much of Europe before R1b got there, from the Neolithic villages in the Balkans to those in Iberia, France and even Britain. On the y-dna side of things, it was probably mostly what we have seen thus far from the various Neolithic sites: I2a (P37.2), E1b1b, and G2a.

I think the Paleolithic and Mesolithic remnants might have been F and perhaps some older kinds of I, and some of them will show up here and there.

I suspect R1b came up from Anatolia or perhaps even from the western steppe. If it came from the P-C steppe, then it probably left en masse at some point. The void it left was later backfilled by peoples who were mostly R1a.

These are just my opinions. I could be wrong, of course.

The CT culture certainly shows a number of spectacular demographic effects such as penetration deep into Ukraine to the edge of the steppes at the expense of the hunters then a superconcentration into monster settlements then collapse/dispersal (perhaps due to the sudden arridity phase).  

I am a great believer in those books that display a page showing all the artefacts and traditions of a culure pictorially and do the same for other cultures.  The bottom line is that the 'vibe' of beaker culture and the general look and feel of it just do not look to have much in common with the native material of either the Balkans or Anatolia of t 4th millium BC.  To me beaker culture has a clear 'barbarian' feel to it and it resembles in vibe if not detail TRB, Corded Ware, maybe some steppes cultures etc.  It just doesnt have the feel of having ancestry in the native cultures of Anatolia or the Balkans. If you just look at books showing typical material cultures they look like a different world.    

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« Reply #218 on: May 21, 2012, 09:36:05 PM »

I'm just having a hard time figuring out how non-long headed Beaker guys showed up in Western Europe without their R1a counterparts, assuming R1b was sourced by Cucuteni-Trypolye.
This scientist has been asking the same question.
http://tinyurl.com/78fukrb
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #219 on: May 21, 2012, 11:38:48 PM »

Nice!
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« Reply #220 on: May 21, 2012, 11:53:40 PM »

This is not to say that all IE folks were Brachyceplic or Mesaticephalic, but it appears that where ancient IE cultures show up, the proportion of long headed dolichocephalic folks goes down to make room for the broad and moderate head people.

For the western European IE types to have such a heavy quantity of R1b (without R1a1 in the west) that are also sprinkled with Bell Beaker types of skeletons implies to me that R1b did not come out of the Cucuteni-Trypolye (or other Old Europe/early Neolithic types), but if anything, went into it.  If the Hittites of Anatolia were gracile types that would impact my opinion, but it looks like they were not. Perhaps the Hittlties were just a second wave of R1b and the first one (dairymen in Anatolia) was gracile with the second (Hittites) more Steppes like.  I don't know. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how non-long headed Beaker guys showed up in Western Europe without their R1a counterparts, assuming R1b was sourced by Cucuteni-Trypolye.

P.S. - Is "do_e" where the underscore is an "s" a bad word in some language? Every time I post with that word it gets removed by worldfamilies.net.  It's strange. I've had to resort to using the word "quantity" instead.

The steppe populations were almost completely long-headed in just about every sample I can find.  This goes for Maykop, Kemi-Oba (Crimea) and Corded-ware as well, although they  were more gracile than the steppe foragers probably due to contact with nearby farming populations.  This would be TRB with Corded-ware, Cucuteni-Tripolye with Kemi-Oba, and Mesopotamia for Maykop.  I have found a small sample of Yamnaya from Ukraine that reached a cranial index of 78.9.  This approaches the broad-headedness of Bell Beaker and hints at contact with western populations.  Also, there were already broad-headed types in Europe before Bell Beaker or Yamnaya, but not so much in the P-C steppe.

For some reason in the 4th millenium BC, the brachycephals seems to increase in number in SE Europe particularly the Hungarian plain.  Whether this is the result of hundred of years of farmer/forager mixing, new movement from Anatolia, or something much more complex is less clear?  I tend to think a farmer/ forager "hybridization" model may be one factor because, the broad-headed element is not observed in Anatolia until after 2300 BC.
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« Reply #221 on: May 22, 2012, 05:10:03 AM »

@ MHammers

I think your conclusion is the closest we are going to get to an answer to this one.
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« Reply #222 on: May 22, 2012, 09:29:05 AM »

This is not to say that all IE folks were Brachyceplic or Mesaticephalic, but it appears that where ancient IE cultures show up, the proportion of long headed dolichocephalic folks goes down to make room for the broad and moderate head people.

For the western European IE types to have such a heavy quantity of R1b (without R1a1 in the west) that are also sprinkled with Bell Beaker types of skeletons implies to me that R1b did not come out of the Cucuteni-Trypolye (or other Old Europe/early Neolithic types), but if anything, went into it.  If the Hittites of Anatolia were gracile types that would impact my opinion, but it looks like they were not. Perhaps the Hittlties were just a second wave of R1b and the first one (dairymen in Anatolia) was gracile with the second (Hittites) more Steppes like.  I don't know. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how non-long headed Beaker guys showed up in Western Europe without their R1a counterparts, assuming R1b was sourced by Cucuteni-Trypolye.

P.S. - Is "do_e" where the underscore is an "s" a bad word in some language? Every time I post with that word it gets removed by worldfamilies.net.  It's strange. I've had to resort to using the word "quantity" instead.

The steppe populations were almost completely long-headed in just about every sample I can find.  This goes for Maykop, Kemi-Oba (Crimea) and Corded-ware as well, although they  were more gracile than the steppe foragers probably due to contact with nearby farming populations.  This would be TRB with Corded-ware, Cucuteni-Tripolye with Kemi-Oba, and Mesopotamia for Maykop.  I have found a small sample of Yamnaya from Ukraine that reached a cranial index of 78.9.  This approaches the broad-headedness of Bell Beaker and hints at contact with western populations.  Also, there were already broad-headed types in Europe before Bell Beaker or Yamnaya, but not so much in the P-C steppe.

For some reason in the 4th millenium BC, the brachycephals seems to increase in number in SE Europe particularly the Hungarian plain.  Whether this is the result of hundred of years of farmer/forager mixing, new movement from Anatolia, or something much more complex is less clear?  I tend to think a farmer/ forager "hybridization" model may be one factor because, the broad-headed element is not observed in Anatolia until after 2300 BC.
This is intestering. By SE Europe, do you include Romania?  or are you primarily talking about the Balkan Peninsula?

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« Reply #223 on: May 22, 2012, 09:30:18 AM »


What were the Cucuteni-Tripolye like? Were the people of the late Cucuteni-Tripolye people different than the earlier versions?

While I'm asking, what about early IE possible folks in Anatolia?  The Hittites?

I have given up trying to tie cephalic indices with populations.  Evidence of too much plasticity, in my opinion.  For example, the populations of what is today Georgia, and the Armenian Highland, were apparently dolichocephalic and mesocephalic, 1500+ years ago.  Today, of course, they are brachycephalic.  Our nearest genetic cousins, the Iraqi Mandaeans, are long-headed.  While we are not.  

FWIW.  From Henry Field's “Ancient and Modern Man in Southwestern Asia.”

Quote
TABLE 23: CEPHALIC INDEX OF 375 HITTITE CRANIA   
Subdolichocephals   10.93 %
Mesocephals   12.53 %
Subbrachycephals   27.46 %
Brachycephals   14.93 %
Hyperbrachycephals   26.13 %
Ultrabrachycephals   8.00 %

Quite the variety.
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« Reply #224 on: May 22, 2012, 10:56:35 AM »

This is not to say that all IE folks were Brachyceplic or Mesaticephalic, but it appears that where ancient IE cultures show up, the proportion of long headed dolichocephalic folks goes down to make room for the broad and moderate head people.

For the western European IE types to have such a heavy quantity of R1b (without R1a1 in the west) that are also sprinkled with Bell Beaker types of skeletons implies to me that R1b did not come out of the Cucuteni-Trypolye (or other Old Europe/early Neolithic types), but if anything, went into it.  If the Hittites of Anatolia were gracile types that would impact my opinion, but it looks like they were not. Perhaps the Hittlties were just a second wave of R1b and the first one (dairymen in Anatolia) was gracile with the second (Hittites) more Steppes like.  I don't know. I'm just having a hard time figuring out how non-long headed Beaker guys showed up in Western Europe without their R1a counterparts, assuming R1b was sourced by Cucuteni-Trypolye.

P.S. - Is "do_e" where the underscore is an "s" a bad word in some language? Every time I post with that word it gets removed by worldfamilies.net.  It's strange. I've had to resort to using the word "quantity" instead.

The steppe populations were almost completely long-headed in just about every sample I can find.  This goes for Maykop, Kemi-Oba (Crimea) and Corded-ware as well, although they  were more gracile than the steppe foragers probably due to contact with nearby farming populations.  This would be TRB with Corded-ware, Cucuteni-Tripolye with Kemi-Oba, and Mesopotamia for Maykop.  I have found a small sample of Yamnaya from Ukraine that reached a cranial index of 78.9.  This approaches the broad-headedness of Bell Beaker and hints at contact with western populations.  Also, there were already broad-headed types in Europe before Bell Beaker or Yamnaya, but not so much in the P-C steppe.

For some reason in the 4th millenium BC, the brachycephals seems to increase in number in SE Europe particularly the Hungarian plain.  Whether this is the result of hundred of years of farmer/forager mixing, new movement from Anatolia, or something much more complex is less clear?  I tend to think a farmer/ forager "hybridization" model may be one factor because, the broad-headed element is not observed in Anatolia until after 2300 BC.
This is intestering. By SE Europe, do you include Romania?  or are you primarily talking about the Balkan Peninsula?

Probably all of the above, but the few papers I've seen mostly have data from the Danube corridor/Carpathian basin/Hungarian plain.  So, yes Romania would be a possibility.

The eastern beakers were more diverse physically.  It is more in the west where the large, broad-head types show up as a majority.  I think this can be attributed to larger remnant mesolithic populations surviving in the west away from the more entrenched farmers of SE Europe (think Hg.'s I1, I2, F, U5, etc.).  This is not going to exactly correlate with the travels of r1b, but along with Desideri's studies it does demonstrate that Bell Beakers were made up of various mobile people.

Here is a paper on Bell Beaker common ware showing the ceramic influences.  All from the east.
http://archiveouverte.unige.ch/downloader/pdf/tmp/tar5cka3cq9qj0efie0d3l2gp2/out.pdf
Also, one about BB sites in the east.  Notice the lack of horse remains compared to cattle on p. 193.
http://www.menhir-cz.eu/library/Turek-Dvorak-Peska2003.pdf
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