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Author Topic: Is there an Irish V?  (Read 1097 times)
Mike Walsh
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« on: February 21, 2012, 01:24:55 PM »

Is there an Irish Type V haplotype that will rival Irish III in size and outpace Irish IV?

I think that Z253 may be the most interesting of the Big Four. No French people found yet, but we do have a nice sized cluster in Spain to go with the Iberian descent results from the 1000 Human Genome Project.

Z253 already has the L226/1189-T3 and 1310-T4 folks and it looks like another major subgroup, bigger than T4 anyway, is surfacing.

I have labeled it 253-1117. It's one of those that looks very solid and probably would have been found by McEwan or Nordtvedt had they had been looking at 67 STR data when they did their R1b discovery work.

This seems to be the STR signature:  511=11 557=17 464=14,$,16,$ {Z253}

It is interesting that low numbers in some of the 464 slots are also important to L226/1189-T3.

f113131   Ramey   zzPredicted   France
f143187   Hearne   R-L21   England, London
f64652   Burns   R-L21   England, North West, Merseyside, Liverpool
f68738   Downing   zzPredicted   England
f6874   Mangum   R-L21/Z253*   England
f6879   Mangum   R-L21   England
f8869   Mangum   zzPredicted   England
f122264   McKinney   zzPredicted   England
f12438   Parham   zzPredicted   England
f23295   zzUnk(Payne)   zzPredicted   England
f192066   Coyne   zzPredicted   Ireland, Connacht, Co. Galway
f142420   Canny   R-L21   Ireland, Connacht, Co. Galway, Dunmore
fN24384   Gilchrist   R-L21/Z253*   Ireland, Connacht, Co. Galway, Loughrea
f92712   Hogan   R-L21   Ireland, Connacht, Co. Mayo, Foxfod
f7345   Kenny   zzPredicted   Ireland, Connacht, Co. Sligo
f7894   Deigan   R-L21   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Kilkenny
f202377   O'Carroll   zzPredicted   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Kilkenny, Kilkenny
f42035   Flood   R-L21   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Longford
f106554   Conley   R-L21/Z253*   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Meath
f205635   Murta   R-L21/Z253   Ireland, Leinster, Co. Westmeath, Cummerstown
f110908   Melican   zzPredicted   Ireland, Munster, Co. Clare, Cloonwhite
fB1028   O'Neill   R-L21/Z253   Ireland, Munster, Co. Clare, Cratloe
f79465   Melican   zzPredicted   Ireland, Munster, Co. Clare, Tulla
f156882   Melican   zzPredicted   Ireland, Munster, Co. Clare, Tulla
fN10039   Brogan   R-L21/Z253   Ireland, Ulster, Co. Cavan
f57753   Reynolds    R-L21   Ireland, Ulster, Co. Cavan (? or Leitrim - Briefne project)
f139483   Adair   R-L21   Ireland
f192984   Ballisty   R-L21*   Ireland
f203486   Cain   R-L21   Ireland
f189838   Carlin   R-L21   Ireland
f91169   Downing   zzPredicted   Ireland
f123181   Farrell   zzPredicted   Ireland
f166772   Farrell   zzPredicted   Ireland
f28154   Kenney   zzPredicted   Ireland
f145899   Manning   R-L21   Ireland
f86960   McKinney   zzPredicted   Ireland
f176518   McNair   zzPredicted   Ireland
y5MQ9Q   Murtha   R-L21   Ireland
f187458   O'Neill   R-L21   Ireland
f186175   Prendergast   R-L21   Ireland
f67988   Reynolds   R-L21   Ireland
f50037   Hanley   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f155728   McDougal   R-L21   Scotland, Strathclyde, Argyllshire
f180034   Duffy   R-L21   Scotland
f49778   Hall   zzPredicted   Scotland
f58070   Sinclair   R-L21/Z253   Scotland
f24240   Steedman   R-L21   Scotland
f89168   Reese   zzPredicted   Wales
f106496   Reese   zzPredicted   Wales
f8621   Mangham   zzPredicted   UK
f80753   Owen   zzPredicted   UK
f16153   Robertson   R-L21/Z253*   UK
f132118   Bankston   R-L21   Sweden
fN73765   Jakobsen   zzPredicted   Norway
f162232   Horgan   zzPredicted   Ireland
f213456   Nixon   zzPredicted   Ireland
f202804   Quinn   zzPredicted   Ireland
f197182   Shannon   zzPredicted   Ireland
f130403   Blake   zzPredicted   Ireland, Co. Meath, Trim
f108603   Egan   zzPredicted   Ireland, Co. Tipperary
fN9495   Williams   zzPredicted   Ireland, Co. Tipperary, Borrisoleigh
f106145   Farrell   zzPredicted   Ireland, Co. Tipperary, Tipperary
fN3175   McDonnell   zzPredicted   Scotland
f61786   Stewart   zzPredicted   Scotland
f1238   Boone   R-L21/Z253   zzzUnkOrigin
f105269   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f109769   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f160988   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f16754   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f19334   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f22426   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f28047   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f29364   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f33376   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f47742   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f49756   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f72820   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f74466   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f75328   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f76553   Butler   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f62094   Calkins   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f190600   Canaday   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
fN26398   Canady   R-L21/Z253**   zzzUnkOrigin
fN16269   Canady    R-L21   zzzUnkOrigin
fN67273   Canady    R-L21   zzzUnkOrigin
f63321   Crow   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f210177   Cunning   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f162035   Hafken   R-L21   zzzUnkOrigin
f94775   Hall   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f50823   Hasty   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
fN87250   Kennedy   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f70205   Kennedy   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f102526   Mangum   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f150428   Mangum   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f168754   Mangum   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f172890   Mangum   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f186162   Mangum   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f84219   Mangum   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f125348   McKinney   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f40081   Morrow   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f178343   Mulligan   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f16779   Nixon   R-L21/Z253   zzzUnkOrigin
f80552   O'Dair   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f47116   Payne   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f63332   Reynolds   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f169738   Roberts   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f141711   Robertson   R-L21   zzzUnkOrigin
f134798   Roderick   R-L21/Z253*   zzzUnkOrigin
f209074   Smith   R-L21   zzzUnkOrigin
f31344   Thomas   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
fN9632   Tompkins   R-L21/Z253   zzzUnkOrigin
f92723   Tompkins   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f151620   Tompkins   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f77794   Tompkins   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f174686   zzUnk(Payne)   zzPredicted   zzzUnkOrigin
f175108   zzzUnkName   R-L21/Z253   zzzUnkOrigin

Maybe its really English Type V?   Who knows?   We've got the Butlers too ... so as always* you have a possible Norman contingent.

* Normans are pretty elusive. They probably didn't have a huge Y DNA impact but since they were a mixed people it's pretty hard to tell. Since they scattered across most of the Isles and they have some commonly used surnames just about anything is possible.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 01:32:52 PM by Mikewww » Logged

Old Hand
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Posts: 676

« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 05:34:11 PM »

i suspect many Norman lines are in Ireland. Perhaps many were ealrier entries into the Isles as Norse and later Vikings..or perhaps even earlier. Supposedly the Norse living in Ireland joined with Irish forces to repell Danes around Brians time. I'm in the belief that Scandinavians peopled much of the Isles.

Even Norse in Greenland from an early cemetary are said to be of Celtic blood. Perhaps they had it backwards. The ones that are suspected of being Celtic perhaps are Scandinavians. I do wonder if the Scandinavians peopled Scotland first and made their way south, and to Ireland. ....(a fellow can dream)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 05:34:59 PM by OConnor » Logged


M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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Old Hand
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 01:38:56 PM »

There is a direct connection connection between Dublin and York (supposedly). They are supposed to be the 2 main centers for the slave trade. I've always been told the Irish and Norwegians got on fine but the Danes were hated by both. York I think was a Dane settlement  so probably Dublin too.
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