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Title: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: rms2 on December 31, 2008, 12:01:47 AM
We acquired another French R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) this evening. He has not yet had the L21 test, but I have urged him to consider ordering it.

This gentleman traces his y line to Villers-lès-Guise in Aisne, Picardie, slightly northeast of Saint-Quentin in NE France.

Hooray!


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: GoldenHind on December 31, 2008, 02:58:00 PM
If I remember correctly there was a contingent from Picardy in Duke William's army. I'm sure L21 exists in Normandy as well. Could some L21 in England have come in with the Normans?


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: rms2 on December 31, 2008, 04:34:08 PM
If I remember correctly there was a contingent from Picardy in Duke William's army. I'm sure L21 exists in Normandy as well. Could some L21 in England have come in with the Normans?

Quite possible. That is something to consider.


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: Chuck Blandford on December 31, 2008, 05:25:16 PM
[quoteCould some L21 in England have come in with the Normans? ][/quote]

To the extend the Normans were vikings and the Norman invasion was around 1000AD, it would seem the Normans pushed out L-21+.


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: GoldenHind on December 31, 2008, 06:18:21 PM
The Normans were by no means all of Viking descent. While there was certainly a large migration of Vikings there, the evidence is overwhelming that they did not displace the existing population, just added to it.


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: rms2 on January 01, 2009, 10:39:02 AM
It is also quite possible some of the vikings were L21+. L21 was just discovered in October, and already three of four Norwegians tested for it are L21+ and there is one Swedish L21+, as well. I am far from ready to make L21 a totally British clade or to think we just happened to miraculously hone in on the descendants of errant Brits and Irishmen everywhere L21+ is found on the Continent.

Anyway, another man from France (he is actually French and lives in France) joined the project last night, surname Chappellier. He is "tested up" and is R-P312* (L21-). He traces his y ancestor to northeast of Le Mans.
 
Chappellier belongs to the R1b North-South Cluster, so it is no surprise he is L21-. He brings our French L21 results to 10 (not counting Provins). He evens the score between L21- and L21+ to five each.
 
So, L21+ is running at 50% (among R-P312 x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France right now. We have Dehou of Villers-lès-Guise and Bontron-Major of Montussaint still awaiting L21 results.


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: GoldenHind on January 01, 2009, 07:40:36 PM
I don't see the Swedish L21 on that map.


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: rms2 on January 01, 2009, 09:26:59 PM
I don't see the Swedish L21 on that map.

He's there: Placemark 55.


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: GoldenHind on January 02, 2009, 04:13:56 PM
My apologies- I failed to scroll far enough to the north.


Title: Re: R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152) in France
Post by: rms2 on January 02, 2009, 09:41:25 PM
My apologies- I failed to scroll far enough to the north.

No problem. If you look at the R-P312-we're-waiting-on-L21-results Map, you'll see we have some Norwegians from way up north.