World Families Forums

General Forums - Note: You must Be Logged In to post. Anyone can browse. => R1b General => Topic started by: Jdean on March 23, 2013, 07:13:16 PM



Title: The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia
Post by: Jdean on March 23, 2013, 07:13:16 PM
Anybody noticed the note on the haplotree page for R-L21 ?

Quote
The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. R-L21 spread to Europe and is one of the most common branches of R-P25 there.

They also have this to say about M222

Quote
The R-M222 lineage began in Western Europe. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. The R-M222 line spread to the British Isles. It is over 12 percent of the population in Ireland. This may be due to its connection to the Uí Néill and Connachta dynasties.


Title: Re: The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia
Post by: Jdean on March 23, 2013, 08:08:25 PM
Wow, just seen this about U152

Quote
The R-U152 lineage began in West Asia. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. The diverse R-U152 lineage has many descendant lines. They are present across Europe, the Levant Region, and Southwestern Asia. Several founding lineages of the Jewish Diaspora descend from the R-U152 line.


Title: Re: The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia
Post by: MostDK on March 23, 2013, 09:12:22 PM
What is the "the haplotree page for R-L21"?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Morten, f210257


Title: Re: The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia
Post by: Jdean on March 24, 2013, 05:21:36 AM
What is the "the haplotree page for R-L21"?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Morten, f210257

It's in the Y-DNA section of your results on your FTDNA home page, it's labelled 'Haplotree & SNPs' now.

I think these statements are relatively recent leastways I've not noticed them before and wonder if FTDNA may be using Geno2 data to help make them.


Title: Re: The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia
Post by: Dubhthach on March 24, 2013, 06:56:18 AM
Here's the Breakdown from M269 downwards:

Quote
The R-M269 lineage likely began in West Asia. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. Some of your genetic cousins traveled northwest into Central Asia and on to Europe. Others moved south and entered the Levant Region.

L23+ individual sees L2 used in blurb (though person is L2-), so copying mistake
Quote
The R-L2 (sic) lineage began in West Asia. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. From West Asia R-L2 (sic) has spread across Europe, Central Asia, and North Africa. This line includes some members from the Jewish Diaspora.

Similiar mishap with L150+ individual:
Quote
The R-L1 (sic) lineage began in Europe. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. R-L1 (sic) has spread across Europe. It is now most common across Northwestern Europe.

L51+ individual (p310-/p311-) has the following:
Quote
The undifferentiated R lineage is currently found in India, Pakistan, and Central Asia at intermediate frequencies.

P310+
Quote
The R-P310 lineage began in West Asia. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. R-P310 is present across Central Asia, Europe, and the Levant region.

U106+
Quote
The R-U106 lineage began in Europe or West Asia. The former is more likely. It is now present in both places. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage.

P312+
Quote
The R-P312 lineage began in West Asia. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. From West Asia, R-P312 spread over great distances. It is now present across Europe in North Africa

--

As a comparison this is what they have for L226:
Quote
The R-L226 lineage began in Europe. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. R-L226 is present throughout the British Isles but is most common in Ireland.

L159.2
Quote
The R-L159.2 lineage began in Western Europe. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. R-L159.2 is most common in Northwestern Europe.

P314.2
Quote
The undifferentiated R lineage is currently found in India, Pakistan, and Central Asia at intermediate frequencies.

P66
Quote
The undifferentiated R lineage is currently found in India, Pakistan, and Central Asia at intermediate frequencies.

L193
Quote
The R-L193 lineage began in Europe. It is the descendant of the major R-M343 lineage. R-L193 is now most common in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

L96
Quote
The undifferentiated R lineage is currently found in India, Pakistan, and Central Asia at intermediate frequencies.
--

Tbh it all sounds vague, when they say West Asian are they talking about source of the particular individual SNP or are they talking about it in context of R-M343, that and I see spelling mistakes (marked by my sic above). Looks to me like sloppy copy on part of FTDNA.

As for M222 it's good that they mention the Connachta as well as the Uí Néill, if only they would get rid of the Niall sticker!

-Paul
(DF41+)


Title: Re: The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia
Post by: wing_genealogist on March 24, 2013, 06:59:06 AM
I really wished FTDNA would be more careful with their very much outdated haplogroup tree as well as their attempts to sell SNPs on this Haplogroup & SNPs page.

I have taken the Geno test, yet the page still asks me to take the test to test for "new branches"

also their "Order SNPs Now" button ONLY shows those SNPs on their very outdated tree. While this page shows "Presumed Positive" SNPs, it doesn't show "Presumed Negative" SNPs which would include (for me) all the SNPs I have not yet tested.


Title: Re: The R-L21 lineage began in West Asia
Post by: Jdean on March 24, 2013, 11:25:05 AM

Tbh it all sounds vague, when they say West Asian are they talking about source of the particular individual SNP or are they talking about it in context of R-M343, that and I see spelling mistakes (marked by my sic above). Looks to me like sloppy copy on part of FTDNA.

As for M222 it's good that they mention the Connachta as well as the Uí Néill, if only they would get rid of the Niall sticker!

-Paul
(DF41+)

Thanks for the breakdown, I could access quite a few of them but not all.

I also wondered whether they were talking about the overall source for R1b as opposed to predictions for each subclade but I think not.

FTDNA seem pretty clear that U152 originated in 'West Asia' whilst for U106 they suggest Europe or possibly West Asia.

I think (?) they are providing predictions for clades they have enough information about whilst others they are defaulting back to R1b, presumably because they don't have enough information to be comfortable with ?

What I'd like to know is what data they are using to support this, The SNP map certainly doesn’t have anything about U152 outside of Europe, and how speculative are these statements. I don't think I'm going to quoting this to people wanting to know were their haplogroup originated just yet : )_


BTW Regarding M269, wouldn't it be a little tricky to get from West Asia to Central Asia by travelling NW ?