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Title: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on July 25, 2012, 07:25:03 PM
This is an exciting new product from National Genographic and FTDNa and a far cry from the 12 marker test I did in 2005 with and estimated 12,000 Y DNA SNPs.

"National Geographic is entering the next phase of their Genographic Project in partnership with  Family Tree DNA and the genetic genealogy community. Continuing to move toward their goal of mapping the pattern of human genetics, they are introducing the new GenoChip 2.0. This chip is specifically designed for ancestry testing and includes SNPs from autosomal DNA, X-DNA, Y-DNA and mtDNA. The design of the new chip was a collaborative effort between Eran Elhaik of Johns Hopkins, Spencer Wells of National Geographic, Family Tree DNA and Illumina.  The testing will be done at FTDNA in Houston....
The Geno 2.0 test will be offered for $199.95 with free shipping within the US on the National Geographic site and will only require a cheek swab. All resulting data will be downloadable. They will begin accepting pre-orders today for a fall shipping date (10/30/12). In the future, orders will  also be accepted through the Family Tree DNA website....

Y-DNA SNPs
 
The chip includes just over 12,000 Y-DNA SNPs. Ten thousand of these are completely unique and have “never been published before”.  First, they created probes for all of the 862 Y-SNPs from the current YCC 2010 Tree. Next, they contacted research centers all over the world and asked them to provide a list of all the Y-SNPs that they had data mined or discovered, including the L SNPs and Z SNPs and “private Hammer” SNPs, and created probes for those. Y-SNPs discovered by citizen scientists were also included....."

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/national-geographic-and-family-tree-dna.html

http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/25/the-genographic-project-announces-geno-2-0/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on July 25, 2012, 07:29:54 PM
This is pretty amazing for the price.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on July 25, 2012, 11:16:24 PM
IMPORTANT NOTE: If you are an existing FTDNA customer, please do not pre-order through National Geographic at this time. There is no advantage to doing so, it will likely cost you more, and at this point, it is not at all clear what will happen if you do so -- you may end up with some test results under your current kit, and the Geno 2.0 results underneath a different kit number. Please give FTDNA a chance to clarify what current customers should do to make sure we don't end up with an IT nightmare.

Geno 2.0
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/about/

* Does not include STRs -- does not replace Y37/Y67/Y111 tests
* Does not predict family relationships -- does not replace Family Finder
* Is not a full mitochrondial sequence -- does not replace FMS
* Contains no medical information (avoid wrath of Big Brother)

* If pre-ordered from National Geographic, will ship no later than 30 Oct, but expected to go out in early September
* 6-8 weeks for results, no waiting list expected
* FTDNA customers will have the option to test an existing sample at an upgrade price. Link will appear on the myFTDNA page if the kit is eligible (late summer, early fall)

* Does replace the current Deep Clade tests
* No cost to transfer results from National Geographic to FTDNA
* 12,000 Y SNPs
* 3,352 mtDNA SNPs (if you see 32,000 referenced, they are referring to the number of probes necessary to accurately sample 3,352 mtDNA SNPs)
* Some 130,000 autosomal and X-chromosomal Ancestry Informative Markers, derived from roughly 450 populations around the globe
* Focus is deep ancestry, not finding relatives
* Raw data will be available for download
* Reference population data will be downloadable
* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree

Per Thomas Krahn:
* Cutoff on Y SNPs was rough Nov 2011; new DF, L, Z SNPs found after that won't be included [but will be in a future custom chip update]
* Not all "known" Y-SNPs will be available -- "not all SNPs can be typed on a chip"
* Spencer Wells has a paper pending; once that is published, information on markers being tested will be available via Thomas's db. [this fall for the paper??]

Question: Custom Illumina chip was vetted by running against 400 pre-existing WTY samples, finding over 5,000 new nodes to add to the haplotree. Will customers be able to order an "upgrade" for their sample and obtain this data, sooner than later? (Since it already exists.)

Blogs which discuss Geno 2.0:
http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/
http://genealem-geneticgenealogy.blogspot.com/
http://legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/07/25/geno-2-0-launches/
http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/07/the-genographic-project-onto-the-autosome/#more-17526
http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on July 25, 2012, 11:41:29 PM
Well, I guess it's not as good as I thought, but I don't really care about finding relations or recent ancestry. Not that I wouldn't like to know who my mystery, female 2nd cousin is on 23andMe, but I know where my family is from on all counts. Unless some exotic person was an NPE in Ireland, Scotland, Quebec or France. That would have already showed up on my autosomal population results, though, I guess. I have a high Caucasus score, so perhaps an Armenian guy or gal.

If this stuff can help find when and from where people came to The Isles back in the Bronze Age, I'd be pleased. I'm probably being an idiot again  :)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 26, 2012, 03:31:33 AM
* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree
How to know if my WTY sample was tested as proof of concept, and then how to get the results ?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on July 26, 2012, 05:24:52 AM
* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree
How to know if my WTY sample was tested as proof of concept, and then how to get the results ?

I am trying to find that out from FTDNA, and will certainly pass along whatever information I might find out.

--david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 26, 2012, 06:31:24 AM
I am trying to find that out from FTDNA, and will certainly pass along whatever information I might find out.

--david
Thanks David! My WTY id is GRC014326


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Wayne Kauffman on July 26, 2012, 06:37:51 AM
due to the number of offered SNPs there is a reasonable chance that one will be able to identify a SNP, say M365.xx, which help define your paternal line within a genealogical time frame.  In other words multiple occurrences of a SNP (L176.1, L172.2,......) will be identified and some of these will end up being private to a specific line and of great genealogical value.  There also means there will be some value in having cousins tested to zero in on the age of specific SNP(s) that appear to be private to your lineage.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 26, 2012, 09:00:24 AM
I imagine that the next updated FTDNA Y-DNA haplotree will have the same SNPs that those present on this GEno2.0 chip.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on July 26, 2012, 09:59:25 AM
I imagine that the next updated FTDNA Y-DNA haplotree will have the same SNPs that those present on this GEno2.0 chip.

To date, FTDNA has based its tree on the few and far between peer-reviewed papers authored by the YCC ... which is why it is always so far behind the real world action.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on July 26, 2012, 10:57:40 AM
I imagine that the next updated FTDNA Y-DNA haplotree will have the same SNPs that those present on this GEno2.0 chip.

To date, FTDNA has based its tree on the few and far between peer-reviewed papers authored by the YCC ... which is why it is always so far behind the real world action.

Maybe Richard R knows the answer to this.  

One of the nice things about the paper he and several hobbyists and Thomas Krahn wrote is that it is published and I think qualifies as a peer-reviewed paper. Therefore, FTDNA does not have to wait on YCC which seems to be tied into the University of Arizona. Not sure I get all of the relationships, but YCC is so slow its practically useless.... at least for our purposes.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on July 26, 2012, 11:20:38 AM
I imagine that the next updated FTDNA Y-DNA haplotree will have the same SNPs that those present on this GEno2.0 chip.

To date, FTDNA has based its tree on the few and far between peer-reviewed papers authored by the YCC ... which is why it is always so far behind the real world action.

Maybe Richard R knows the answer to this.  

One of the nice things about the paper he and several hobbyists and Thomas Krahn wrote is that it is published and I think qualifies as a peer-reviewed paper. Therefore, FTDNA does not have to wait on YCC which seems to be tied into the University of Arizona. Not sure I get all of the relationships, but YCC is so slow its practically useless.... at least for our purposes.

The YCC thing is pretty circular, given that Michael Hammer is a member of every part of YCC and he's also FTDNA's chief scientist and member of their Scientific Advisory Board.

http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu/contributors.html


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on July 26, 2012, 11:51:25 AM
One of the nice things about the paper he and several hobbyists and Thomas Krahn wrote is that it is published and I think qualifies as a peer-reviewed paper.

Given that the authors are not themselves academics -- and of course that's the thrust of the paper's raison d'etre-- then I think it will not excite much interest among the academic community.

It's moot what Dr Michael Hammer, in particular, thinks about any of this work, given his status at FTDNA. It would be interesting to ask him directly.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on July 26, 2012, 12:13:20 PM

Maybe Richard R knows the answer to this.  

One of the nice things about the paper he and several hobbyists and Thomas Krahn wrote is that it is published and I think qualifies as a peer-reviewed paper. Therefore, FTDNA does not have to wait on YCC which seems to be tied into the University of Arizona. Not sure I get all of the relationships, but YCC is so slow its practically useless.... at least for our purposes.

Mike, I can only assume that FTDNA needs some stability in its nomenclature. We get confused by the constant renaming of haplogroups, so you can imaging the casual DNA customer that logs into his or her FTDNA homepage once or twice a year.

Regarding the paper, it was indeed peer reviewed.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: DaveinCA on July 26, 2012, 12:19:13 PM
For those of us associated with well-defined haplogroups such as M222, how is Geno 2.0 relevant?  Will there be SNPs under M222?  20% of M222s have DYS391=10 and the densities are highest for them in the historic Breifne region.  Will WTY or 1000 Genomes Project or more STRs or something else be the key to subdivide groups like M222 to the Breifne group and beyond (i.e. still narrower)?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on July 26, 2012, 02:07:59 PM
For those of us associated with well-defined haplogroups such as M222, how is Geno 2.0 relevant?  Will there be SNPs under M222?  20% of M222s have DYS391=10 and the densities are highest for them in the historic Breifne region.  Will WTY or 1000 Genomes Project or more STRs or something else be the key to subdivide groups like M222 to the Breifne group and beyond (i.e. still narrower)?

From Richards post above, I expect many of the new SNPs discovered since Nov 2011 are not included in this version but will be included in a future chip update. Spencer Wells paper expected in the fall should give further detail on the structure of the Tree and SNP coverage. This does not replace genealogy products such as FF and recent relative matching but looks like a good base platform for deep ancestry analysis. I look forward to seeing if we can use it to map to the Gaelic Clan structure. I hope the design is flexible enough to support the rapid rate of new SNP discovery.


"Per Thomas Krahn:
* Cutoff on Y SNPs was rough Nov 2011; new DF, L, Z SNPs found after that won't be included [but will be in a future custom chip update]
* Not all "known" Y-SNPs will be available -- "not all SNPs can be typed on a chip"
* Spencer Wells has a paper pending; once that is published, information on markers being tested will be available via Thomas's db. [this fall for the paper??]"


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on July 26, 2012, 07:37:47 PM
Please see this blog entry for Bennett Greenspan's answers to some of the questions about Geno 2.0.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/26/geno-2-0-qa-with-bennett-greenspan/

-david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Peter M on July 26, 2012, 07:48:58 PM
For those of us associated with well-defined haplogroups such as M222, how is Geno 2.0 relevant?  Will there be SNPs under M222?  20% of M222s have DYS391=10 and the densities are highest for them in the historic Breifne region.  Will WTY or 1000 Genomes Project or more STRs or something else be the key to subdivide groups like M222 to the Breifne group and beyond (i.e. still narrower)?
Bennett's Blog quoted by David gives the answer:

By way of example, in haplogroup R-M222 – the new Geno chip includes discoveries of at least three unique SNP’s downstream of R-M222.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: DaveinCA on July 26, 2012, 07:51:25 PM
3 SNPs under M222 on the chip!  :^)
I wonder whether they will be separately available to test at FTDNA.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on July 27, 2012, 08:14:40 AM
Please see this blog entry for Bennett Greenspan's answers to some of the questions about Geno 2.0.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/26/geno-2-0-qa-with-bennett-greenspan/

-david

From Bennet Greenspan's answers:

"Q:  Can I purchase the Geno 2.0 kit elsewhere?

A:  The Geno 2.0 product can only be purchased through the National Geographic Society.  This product cannot be ordered from Family Tree DNA..  

Q:  Will there be a way to move my Geno 2.0 results to the Family Tree DNA database?

A: As with the original National Geographic product, we plan to have a link on the Geno 2.0 personal page to allow people to upload their results.  With the Geno 2.0 deep SNP results, they will be able to enter their Family Tree DNA account number, if they have an existing account at Family Tree DNA, and their deep SNP results will be included with their other tests results on their personal page.

Q:  Does Family Tree DNA plan to offer a test that will be more extensive then the new Genographic test for the Y chromosome?

A:  No. The most extensive test for obtaining YDNA SNP data is available on the Geno 2.0 chip and Family Tree DNA has no plans to compete with its partner.  STR results will not be supplied by Geno 2.0 and all regular genealogical marker tests should be ordered through Family Tree DNA.  These two tests go hand in hand.

By way of example, in haplogroup R-M222 – the new Geno chip includes discoveries of at least three unique SNP’s downstream of R-M222.

These 10,000 new SNPs will provide, for almost everyone, one or two additional clades (subhaplogroups) down the tree from where they are located today.  For some people, these will reach into a genealogical timeframe, connecting their SNPs and their STR data.  The STR tests will then be used to further augment the Geno 2.0 SNP tests for genealogical comparisons within families."

David, what is the recommendation for testing. Test on Genographic using the $30  for Genographic 1.0 subscribers or wait for a FTDNA offer. It is not clear from Benett's reply if FTDNA will offer this test.

Roberta's blog on the announcement is really very good.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on July 27, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
For those of us associated with well-defined haplogroups such as M222, how is Geno 2.0 relevant?  Will there be SNPs under M222?  20% of M222s have DYS391=10 and the densities are highest for them in the historic Breifne region.  Will WTY or 1000 Genomes Project or more STRs or something else be the key to subdivide groups like M222 to the Breifne group and beyond (i.e. still narrower)?

From Richards post above, I expect many of the new SNPs discovered since Nov 2011 are not included in this version but will be included in a future chip update. Spencer Wells paper expected in the fall should give further detail on the structure of the Tree and SNP coverage. This does not replace genealogy products such as FF and recent relative matching but looks like a good base platform for deep ancestry analysis. I look forward to seeing if we can use it to map to the Gaelic Clan structure. I hope the design is flexible enough to support the rapid rate of new SNP discovery.


"Per Thomas Krahn:
* Cutoff on Y SNPs was rough Nov 2011; new DF, L, Z SNPs found after that won't be included [but will be in a future custom chip update]
* Not all "known" Y-SNPs will be available -- "not all SNPs can be typed on a chip"
* Spencer Wells has a paper pending; once that is published, information on markers being tested will be available via Thomas's db. [this fall for the paper??]"

Does this put DF27 in or out?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on July 27, 2012, 07:47:54 PM

David, what is the recommendation for testing. Test on Genographic using the $30  for Genographic 1.0 subscribers or wait for a FTDNA offer. It is not clear from Benett's reply if FTDNA will offer this test.

Roberta's blog on the announcement is really very good.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/


Well, from what Bennett said, it sound like FTDNA would not be offering Geno 2.0 as an upgrade anytime soon. My own personal decision is go ahead and order Geno 2.0 from Nat Geo, taking advantage of the $30  for v1.0 customers.

-david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on July 27, 2012, 09:33:55 PM

David, what is the recommendation for testing. Test on Genographic using the $30  for Genographic 1.0 subscribers or wait for a FTDNA offer. It is not clear from Benett's reply if FTDNA will offer this test.

Roberta's blog on the announcement is really very good.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/


Well, from what Bennett said, it sound like FTDNA would not be offering Geno 2.0 as an upgrade anytime soon. My own personal decision is go ahead and order Geno 2.0 from Nat Geo, taking advantage of the $30  for v1.0 customers.

-david

David, how can I order v1.0? I am both a Nat Geo and FTDNA customer. Thanks.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on July 27, 2012, 09:49:49 PM

David, what is the recommendation for testing. Test on Genographic using the $30  for Genographic 1.0 subscribers or wait for a FTDNA offer. It is not clear from Benett's reply if FTDNA will offer this test.

Roberta's blog on the announcement is really very good.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/


Well, from what Bennett said, it sound like FTDNA would not be offering Geno 2.0 as an upgrade anytime soon. My own personal decision is go ahead and order Geno 2.0 from Nat Geo, taking advantage of the $30  for v1.0 customers.

-david

David, how can I order v1.0? I am both a Nat Geo and FTDNA customer. Thanks.

Richard, this is the info I found on the web--I plan on ordering Monday (I need to find my v1.0 order information this weekend...).

Quote
We are offering first-phase Genographic participants a limited-time  of $30 on the Geno 2.0 kit. For a limited-time only, first-phase Genographic participants can purchase a Geno 2.0 kit for $169.95 (includes free shipping within the US). To receive this , you will need to have purchased the first generation Genographic Project Participation Kit. Participants who who did not purchase the first generation kit, but received the kit as a gift are not eligible for this . Please call our customer service line at 1-800-437-5521 to receive the . This  does not apply to online orders.

EDIT: The above reads a little funny, because apparently the board s/w is eating the word "d-i-s-c-o-u-n-t" every place it appears.
--david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 28, 2012, 02:51:58 PM
A french guy who wanted to buy the Geno 2.0 test on the genographic project site, got the following message:
Quote
This item cannot be shipped to France.
What is the problem ?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: k.o.gran on July 28, 2012, 04:28:35 PM
A french guy who wanted to buy the Geno 2.0 test on the genographic project site, got the following message:
Quote
This item cannot be shipped to France.
What is the problem ?

Not sure, but maybe he chose the US kit and not the "international" kit?
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/category/genographic-kits-international-delivery


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 28, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
Note sure, but maybe he chose the US kit and not the "international" kit?
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/category/genographic-kits-international-delivery
Ok, I told him about this point.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: stoneman on July 28, 2012, 04:41:03 PM
Hello Miles
Did you know  there are three unique SNPS discovered downstream of M222. I wrote to someone on another forum six months ago and told them that I reckoned that there were at least six SNPs downstream of M222. He thought that I was talking BS. I have to wait for thee more to be found and then I can write back to him.





Well, I guess it's not as good as I thought, but I don't really care about finding relations or recent ancestry. Not that I wouldn't like to know who my mystery, female 2nd cousin is on 23andMe, but I know where my family is from on all counts. Unless some exotic person was an NPE in Ireland, Scotland, Quebec or France. That would have already showed up on my autosomal population results, though, I guess. I have a high Caucasus score, so perhaps an Armenian guy or gal.

If this stuff can help find when and from where people came to The Isles back in the Bronze Age, I'd be pleased. I'm probably being an idiot again  :)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on July 28, 2012, 05:12:15 PM
A french guy who wanted to buy the Geno 2.0 test on the genographic project site, got the following message:
Quote
This item cannot be shipped to France.
What is the problem ?

You need to select the International kit. It will add additional shipping charges.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on July 29, 2012, 01:53:55 AM
A french guy who wanted to buy the Geno 2.0 test on the genographic project site, got the following message:
Quote
This item cannot be shipped to France.
What is the problem ?

I have had a few of offline discussions about DNA testing with a few French nationals. They tell me that under French law only a court may order a paternity test. I don't have a copy of the black letter law to study but I gather it says nothing specifically about DNA testing for genealogical purposes, nonetheless French citizens seem to interpret the private paternity testing ban as umbrella law for all forms of DNA testing.

So, it seems that National Genographic is taking the legal view.

Thankfully, a number of French citizens have managed to be STR and SNP tested and have posted their results in the various projects.



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 29, 2012, 02:45:54 AM
OK, the problem is solved.  The french guy was wrong and chose the  US kit. When he chooses the european kit, all is right. Thanks a lot to Kai and Heber.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 29, 2012, 02:48:38 AM
I have had a few of offline discussions about DNA testing with a few French nationals. They tell me that under French law only a court may order a paternity test. I don't have a copy of the black letter law to study but I gather it says nothing specifically about DNA testing for genealogical purposes, nonetheless French citizens seem to interpret the private paternity testing ban as umbrella law for all forms of DNA testing.

So, it seems that National Genographic is taking the legal view.

Thankfully, a number of French citizens have managed to be STR and SNP tested and have posted their results in the various projects.
Thanks gtc, you are right about paternity DNA testing, but the Geno 2.0 test is not a paternity test.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 29, 2012, 04:51:14 AM
I don't have a copy of the black letter law to study
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=004CBD3DCCA0F482A837DCD60D65F317.tpdjo12v_1?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006136513&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070721&dateTexte=20120728


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on July 29, 2012, 08:46:06 AM
What are the benefits of Geno 2.0 to someone who is an old, established FTDNA customer?

Are there any compelling reasons to spend $200 on it, if it does not replace Family Finder, the FGS, and is not up to date on the very latest y-dna SNPs? I'm beyond Deep Clade type tests unless and until they are tailored to me personally and consist of an array of SNPs I haven't yet tested but with which I have some likelihood of a positive result. Can't I just keep going as I currently am, ordering SNPs a la carte?

I might have missed something. I'll admit I haven't waded through all the commentary on it at the various links.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on July 29, 2012, 10:11:28 AM
Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on July 29, 2012, 11:52:55 AM
Merci beaucoup, secherbernard!

Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'

I read that numerous times and thought my translation must be faulty.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on July 29, 2012, 12:46:26 PM
Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'
The french law says the contrary:  'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.'


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: k.o.gran on July 29, 2012, 12:57:28 PM
Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'
The french law says the contrary:  'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.'

That makes Geno 2.0 legal. :)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: thetick on July 29, 2012, 01:16:56 PM
due to the number of offered SNPs there is a reasonable chance that one will be able to identify a SNP, say M365.xx, which help define your paternal line within a genealogical time frame.  In other words multiple occurrences of a SNP (L176.1, L172.2,......) will be identified and some of these will end up being private to a specific line and of great genealogical value.  There also means there will be some value in having cousins tested to zero in on the age of specific SNP(s) that appear to be private to your lineage.

There is "some" value but just don't see it worth the $200 or even $170 with the $30 off.  I think the case you outlined above would be quite rare, but certainly possible.   Most would be better off getting more FF,  23andme, YDNA,  or even intelligently chosen individual SNP tests.  I'm SRY-2627(via 23andme) and very far from L165, 111 YDNA STRs, FF, and mtDNA FGS  so I see no value at all for me with this test.

Geno 2.0 would be an excellent test for someone with no previous DNA test or only the Geno 1.0 test.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on July 29, 2012, 01:41:17 PM
Why would this be ever have enacted by a certain country?

'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.'
The french law says the contrary:  'The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.'

Looks like I asssumed that translator work correctly in the modern world.

I do not speak French and used a Google website Translator
http://tinyurl.com/chtw5c6 (http://tinyurl.com/chtw5c6)

which showed under 16-10:
The examination of genetic characteristics of a person can not be undertaken for medical or scientific research.

but when I used text translators, Bing and Google translator which both translates for the French sentence only as shown in French:

L'examen des caractéristiques génétiques d'une personne ne peut être entrepris qu'à des fins médicales ou de recherche scientifique.

Translated to English

Bing:
Examination of the genetic characteristics of a person may be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.

Google:
Examination of the genetic characteristics of a person may be undertaken only for medical or scientific research.

I sent this error to Google.

MJost

Edited to employ TinyURL (no other changes). rms2


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on July 30, 2012, 05:51:19 PM
Here is an update on CeCe's blog on the SNPs which will be used in Geno 2.0, from a corresponsance she had with Dr. Spencer Wells. The deep sequencing in Sardinian populations should give us good insights into early European populations.
 
"...the Y-markers on the Geno 2.0 chip come from a variety of sources.  The majority are entirely new, and are drawn from the work of our team and collaborators:

~3500 from Chris Tyler-Smith, drawn primarily from 1K Genomes data
 
~3500 from Li Jin, discovered by deep sequencing in East Asian populations from a variety of haplogroups
 
~5000 from Paolo Francalacci and Sergio Tofanelli, discovered by deep sequencing in Sardinian populations from a variety of haplogroups

The rest are drawn from the ISOGG tree, FTDNA, Hammer and other available sources.  The final number of working assays for the rare markers (and thus those most likely to be of interest to the genealogical community) is yet to be determined, as we simply don't have access to all of the the positive controls necessary.  This is where the genetic genealogy community can really help, by vetting the rare markers in samples with known phylogenetic positions... I see this as an opportunity for the community to take an active role in helping us to build the definitive Y-chromosome tree.  It will also likely yield many markers with extraordinary specificity for family-defining lineages that will be important for genetic genealogy."

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on July 31, 2012, 04:39:13 AM
That something was brewing about Sardinian DNA (and I thank Richard Rocca for signalling this to me) I understood when Viola Grugni et al. (PloS ONE, July 2012) didn’t publish the Sardinian data amongst all the others, and I wrote about this. But the data of the paper of Grugni were 520 Sardinians and here we are speaking of 5,000. Anyway also 500 would be many: tenfold the Tuscans of the 1KGP.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on July 31, 2012, 05:58:49 AM
That something was brewing about Sardinian DNA (and I thank Richard Rocca for signalling this to me) I understood when Viola Grugni et al. (PloS ONE, July 2012) didn’t publish the Sardinian data amongst all the others, and I wrote about this. But the data of the paper of Grugni were 520 Sardinians and here we are speaking of 5,000. Anyway also 500 would be many: tenfold the Tuscans of the 1KGP.

Perhaps we can find a close match for Otzi.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on July 31, 2012, 07:42:52 AM
The link with Oetzi, at least with his Y, is certain, being this haplogroup to-day above all in South Corsica and North Sardinia. But Sardinia will say much more about what is for me the "Italian Refugium".


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: razyn on July 31, 2012, 09:59:13 AM
But the data of the paper of Grugni were 520 Sardinians and here we are speaking of 5,000.

I've read about this elsewhere and the same inference was drawn, that 5,000 Sardinians were sampled, and I was frankly puzzled about why anyone would care that much about such a small population, given that the tests cost money.  But what Spencer Wells actually said to Roberta was that 5,000 of the selected markers were found by sampling Sardinians.  It could have been three or four Sardinians, for all we know (if they got the markers from full genome sequencing, or something).  This is an exaggeration, but only to make the point, I believe we don't know the number of people -- only the number of different markers found there.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on July 31, 2012, 10:36:01 AM
Good point. It is clear from the quote that he is talking about Y Markers and not individuals sampled.
However given that the Sardinian populations appear to be a proxy for Early Europeans, I think we will be able to learn a lot from from this data. Combined with the fact that some of the best preserved and tested aDNA In Europe (Otzi) matches the Sardinian signature should provide insights into early Europen migrations. I am particularly interested if it will pick up the early R1b Neolithic Meditteranean migrations from Anatolia To Crete to Iberia via Italy. This of courses lead to downstream M269, L23, L51, L11, P312 and L21.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on July 31, 2012, 11:23:34 AM
Given its propensity for insular founder effects (see I-M26 and G-L91), Sardinia is not the ideal place for finding lower level SNPs. Having said that, I think Sardinia's insular nature could also be of great benefit. If some downstream markers that are common in continental Europe are missing in Sardinia, we could possibly tie it back to specific migratory events. Below U152, I'm curious to see if any of the three main subclades (L2, Z36 and Z56) are missing.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: secherbernard on August 01, 2012, 03:13:44 AM
* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree
How to know if my WTY sample was tested as proof of concept, and then how to get the results ?
Many of the WTY samples used were internal, meaning not customers.  Only 23 public WTY samples were used. See here: http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/31/geno-2-0-wty-mtdna-full-sequence-participants-and-more/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on August 01, 2012, 10:38:20 AM
* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree
How to know if my WTY sample was tested as proof of concept, and then how to get the results ?
Many of the WTY samples used were internal, meaning not customers.  Only 23 public WTY samples were used. See here: http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/31/geno-2-0-wty-mtdna-full-sequence-participants-and-more/

Answers from the Spencer Wells interview:

"Q: Will the Walk Through the Y customers whose samples were used for vetting the new chip receive their results?

A: Yes, the WTY and whole-mtDNA genome customers used in the validation process will receive their results when the results section of the website goes live for all Geno 2.0 participants this fall. As I said in the story, your data belongs to you.  There will be no charge to them for this, and we hope that they enjoy the new Geno 2.0 experience and will become cheerleaders for the project."

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/more-information-from-spencer-wells-on.html


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on August 01, 2012, 10:42:41 AM


Answers from the Spencer Wells interview:

"Q: Will the Walk Through the Y customers whose samples were used for vetting the new chip receive their results?

A: Yes, the WTY and whole-mtDNA genome customers used in the validation process will receive their results when the results section of the website goes live for all Geno 2.0 participants this fall. As I said in the story, your data belongs to you.  There will be no charge to them for this, and we hope that they enjoy the new Geno 2.0 experience and will become cheerleaders for the project."

http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2012/07/more-information-from-spencer-wells-on.html

I'm still not clear on this. I'm an FTDNA FMS customer but how will I know if my data was used? Do I have to be a customer of both FTDNA and NG to find out?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on August 01, 2012, 05:56:51 PM
My understanding (and I could well be wrong) is that if your DNA was used in the vetting project, NatGeo will automatically send you your results. There is nothing you need to do to access the sample. On the other hand, there is no way of knowing whether or not your DNA was actually used by NatGeo until they start shipping the orders and you either receive or fail to receive a notice from them.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: DavidCar on August 01, 2012, 06:19:59 PM
I signed up for Geno 2.0, as also did someone else in my little Z346 SNP group.  So we'll see if there are any Y SNP differences.

I'm expecting Z346 is one of the SNPs tested in Geno 2.0.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: thetick on August 01, 2012, 08:06:18 PM
I'm expecting Z346 is one of the SNPs tested in Geno 2.0. 

Not likely since the Z346 date is 2012-04-28 at http://ytree.ftdna.com/taxonomy_editor/log/index.php?name=Draft&node=99813444.  Thomas Krahn from FTDNA said any Y SNP discoveries after Nov 2011 will not be included in  Geno 2.0. 


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on August 01, 2012, 08:49:30 PM
I'm expecting Z346 is one of the SNPs tested in Geno 2.0. 

Not likely since the Z346 date is 2012-04-28 at http://ytree.ftdna.com/taxonomy_editor/log/index.php?name=Draft&node=99813444.  Thomas Krahn from FTDNA said any Y SNP discoveries after Nov 2011 will not be included in  Geno 2.0. 
Z346 was known to Thomas and in his db in Nov 2011. The fact that it didn't get added to the Draft Tree until April is not relevant.

-david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: on the edge on September 15, 2012, 04:25:15 PM
Can anyone please offer an opinion as to whether testing the Geno 2.0 would have any possible value for a DF13*? Thanks.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on September 15, 2012, 04:43:12 PM
Can anyone please offer an opinion as to whether testing the Geno 2.0 would have any possible value for a DF13*? Thanks.

We really cannot say until either NatGeo publishes the SNPs on the chip or results become available.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on September 16, 2012, 07:29:14 AM
Can anyone please offer an opinion as to whether testing the Geno 2.0 would have any possible value for a DF13*? Thanks.

For first time testers, absolutely yes. Spencer Wells have confirmed that there will be several SNPs below M222. For someone already confirmed DF13*, I would wait until the first results are in or the detailed paper is published. I understand the the detailed paper with confirmed SNPs will be published prior to availability of the test (end of October), so I would hold off for another month.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on September 24, 2012, 07:58:28 PM
Thomas posted a reply commentary on the Geno 2.0 to CeCe.
 
"The future of Y SNP testing after Geno 2.0 will be essentially:
 1.) Test Geno 2.0 or predict your Y haplogroup as good as possible from Y-STR results.
 2.) If necessary use individual Y-SNP tests to determine your fine haplogroup (to the last twig of the current knowledge if you want).
 3.) If you still can't solve a Y haplogroup question consider to apply for a WTY run and hopefully find a new SNP that will solve your question and/or contribute to further research and for inclusion in the next Geno Chip."
 
More details here:
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNA-NEWBIE/message/25166
 
MJost


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on September 24, 2012, 08:07:15 PM
I feel pretty blessed to have gotten a positive hit on one of the new SNPs unearthed by the 1000 Genomes researchers.

I think things are going to get tougher and more expensive for awhile, especially once you reach finer and finer points of resolution.

Hopefully whole genome testing will become readily available at a fairly reasonable price sometime in the near future.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on September 24, 2012, 08:34:21 PM
Well I know I have spend wayyyyyyy to much of my funds for all of this but its putting in coins the machine knowing your going to get lucky and win a prize eventually.

But the DF13 x subclade guys will hopefully find a snp that will connect most of the smaller subclades with the Scots or the other big three.

MJost


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on September 24, 2012, 10:53:09 PM
I feel pretty blessed to have gotten a positive hit on one of the new SNPs unearthed by the 1000 Genomes researchers.

I think things are going to get tougher and more expensive for awhile, especially once you reach finer and finer points of resolution.

Hopefully whole genome testing will become readily available at a fairly reasonable price sometime in the near future.

Unfortunately or not, knowledge with a little luck will certainly trump for a while. The replacement package tests, such as Geno 2.0, will lag behind develop of the actual Y phylogenetic tree do rifle shots will do better than shotgun blasts, or rather grenades is probably the better analaogy. If you know your target, good for you. Testing to at least 67 markers and joining projects will help you know your target.

WTY is, as Thomas says, another option, but he is right. It should be viewed as a contribution, There is a possibility of hitting gold.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on September 26, 2012, 01:04:50 PM
I feel pretty blessed to have gotten a positive hit on one of the new SNPs unearthed by the 1000 Genomes researchers.

I think things are going to get tougher and more expensive for awhile, especially once you reach finer and finer points of resolution.

Hopefully whole genome testing will become readily available at a fairly reasonable price sometime in the near future.

Unfortunately or not, knowledge with a little luck will certainly trump for a while. The replacement package tests, such as Geno 2.0, will lag behind develop of the actual Y phylogenetic tree do rifle shots will do better than shotgun blasts, or rather grenades is probably the better analaogy. If you know your target, good for you. Testing to at least 67 markers and joining projects will help you know your target.

WTY is, as Thomas says, another option, but he is right. It should be viewed as a contribution, There is a possibility of hitting gold.

I also have to chime in here as well.

67 Markers is the mininum number I am suggesting now unless one has family groupings and there is at least two member tested to this or higher level to confirm family status. Surnames grouping may or may not be applicable.

Variety clustering based on haplotype markers is an important consideration of what SNP(s) would be recommended or a complete SNP testing using Geno2.0.

Geno2.0 replaces the existing DeepClade Test offered by FtDNA. There are almost 50 SNPs under L21 now, with around 10 to 12 of the newest discovered SNPs may not be included.

Here are the SNPs and dates added to the Draft Ytree which I complied to consider which ones may or may not have been added to the original Geno2.0 system with said 'Nov 2011' Cutoff.

L1066 8/10/2012
DF23  8/9/2012
DF63  6/26/2012
DF25  6/25/2012
DF41 6/13/2012
DF13  5/15/2012
Z255  3/9/2012
L908,L909 1/17/2012
L745 12/26/2011
L894,L895  12/5/2011
DF49   11/1/2011
L705,L706 10/24/2011

MJost


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on September 27, 2012, 02:32:10 AM
Any one else get the long-awaited email message from FTDNA in your inbox today? Apparently a lot of people did.

"...  As part of the development process, we tested your pre-approved sample to confirm the SNPs on the chip were working, and to help with the placement of your SNPs on the tree. Your sample was chosen based on other testing you had already done with Family Tree DNA, either the Walk the Y (WTY) or mtDNA full-genome sequencing (FGS) ...

Because your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip, your data - autosomal, mtDNA and Y (in the case of men) will be uploaded to the new National Geographic website at www.genographic.com later this fall. Therefore, there is no reason for you to order another Geno 2.0 kit to have yourself tested..."



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on September 27, 2012, 03:53:55 AM
Any one else get the long-awaited email message from FTDNA in your inbox today? Apparently a lot of people did.

"...  As part of the development process, we tested your pre-approved sample to confirm the SNPs on the chip were working, and to help with the placement of your SNPs on the tree. Your sample was chosen based on other testing you had already done with Family Tree DNA, either the Walk the Y (WTY) or mtDNA full-genome sequencing (FGS) ...

Because your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip, your data - autosomal, mtDNA and Y (in the case of men) will be uploaded to the new National Geographic website at www.genographic.com later this fall. Therefore, there is no reason for you to order another Geno 2.0 kit to have yourself tested..."



Two DF21+ people did, that I am aware of. One R-L720 and an R-L627 (me).

-david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on September 27, 2012, 11:49:45 PM

Any one else get the long-awaited email message from FTDNA in your inbox today? ...

"... Your sample was chosen based on other testing you had already done with Family Tree DNA, either the Walk the Y (WTY) or mtDNA full-genome sequencing (FGS) ...

Because your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip, your data - autosomal, mtDNA and Y  in the case of men) will be uploaded to the new National Geographic website ....

Two DF21+ people did, that I am aware of. One R-L720 and an R-L627 (me).

Let's keep a list of the kit #s so we can look for their results.  An L513/L193 guy also will get the free Geno 2.0 results - kit 130361 Elliott.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on September 28, 2012, 05:44:32 AM
AFAIK no U106+ person has received a notice of free Geno 2.0 results. I have sent an email to the whole forum and have not heard any replies.

I am somewhat disappointed in this as there are a LOT of new SNPs below U106 (primarily discovered in the 1K Genome Project) and while at least some of them should be in the 2.0 chip, it does not appear where any of them were tested to assure they will receive reliable results.

EDIT:  I'm hoping Chris Tyler-Smith (who is credited as working with the National Geographic Project on the Y-DNA) actually had DNA samples from the 1K Genome project to work with, and used those samples to to verify the SNPs on the Geno 2.0 chip.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: razyn on September 28, 2012, 07:57:15 AM
Since the Geno 2.0 test has been advertised as using NextGen technology that doesn't involve (or perhaps just doesn't require?) PCR amplification -- and FTDNA tells prospective buyers of Geno 2.0 that a different, fresh sample has to be provided for this test, thus disappointing several bloggers who had sent in samples from older relatives, now deceased -- I've sort of assumed that our original, bar-coded samples are stored at FTDNA after PCR amplification.

If that assumption is mistaken, and they've stored the little vials we sent them in an unamplified state, this bit about "your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip" would make more sense.  But then their published requirement of fresh samples makes less sense, to me.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on September 28, 2012, 08:40:37 AM
Since the Geno 2.0 test has been advertised as using NextGen technology that doesn't involve (or perhaps just doesn't require?) PCR amplification -- and FTDNA tells prospective buyers of Geno 2.0 that a different, fresh sample has to be provided for this test, thus disappointing several bloggers who had sent in samples from older relatives, now deceased -- I've sort of assumed that our original, bar-coded samples are stored at FTDNA after PCR amplification.

If that assumption is mistaken, and they've stored the little vials we sent them in an unamplified state, this bit about "your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip" would make more sense.  But then their published requirement of fresh samples makes less sense, to me.

From what I've read, Geno 2.0 will not store the samples after sequencing them, so it would be a bad idea to send samples of the deceased from FTDNA to Geno 2.0.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on September 28, 2012, 02:53:39 PM

Any one else get the long-awaited email message from FTDNA in your inbox today? ...

"... Your sample was chosen based on other testing you had already done with Family Tree DNA, either the Walk the Y (WTY) or mtDNA full-genome sequencing (FGS) ...

Because your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip, your data - autosomal, mtDNA and Y  in the case of men) will be uploaded to the new National Geographic website ....

Two DF21+ people did, that I am aware of. One R-L720 and an R-L627 (me).

Let's keep a list of the kit #s so we can look for their results.  An L513/L193 guy also will get the free Geno 2.0 results - kit 130361 Elliott.

Here is another that will get the 2.0 results for free - kit 154690 Bunch.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on October 07, 2012, 09:01:51 AM
At least one person has reported being billed for their kit. This may indicate that shipping is about to commence.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on October 07, 2012, 02:00:26 PM
At least one person has reported being billed for their kit. This may indicate that shipping is about to commence.

My cc was charged yesterday as well.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on October 07, 2012, 02:08:31 PM
I have also noticed today where their "Check Your Results" page:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/results/ (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/results/) is now live and apparently will work. It would be interesting to learn if any of the "freebies" have received their User Name & Password to enter the site.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on October 07, 2012, 04:24:55 PM
I have also noticed today where their "Check Your Results" page:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/results/ (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/results/) is now live and apparently will work. It would be interesting to learn if any of the "freebies" have received their User Name & Password to enter the site.

I haven't.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on October 10, 2012, 12:47:20 AM
I have also noticed today where their "Check Your Results" page:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/results/ (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/results/) is now live and apparently will work. It would be interesting to learn if any of the "freebies" have received their User Name & Password to enter the site.

I haven't.

I haven't either.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Solothurn on October 10, 2012, 06:05:42 AM
Does anybody know if a U152* received a free kit?

Thanks


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on October 10, 2012, 07:30:45 AM
Does anybody know if a U152* received a free kit?

Thanks

I don't know about a free kit, but Steve is tracking the results of the Geno 2.0 U152+ kits here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ago12PDVxPwwdGVOQWNuSlZad3gycHJOZFloeE85b2c#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ago12PDVxPwwdGVOQWNuSlZad3gycHJOZFloeE85b2c#gid=0)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Solothurn on October 10, 2012, 07:34:10 AM
Brilliant!

Thanks Rich


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on October 10, 2012, 03:22:35 PM
I don't know about a free kit, but Steve is tracking the results of the Geno 2.0 U152+ kits here:

That it is a great idea. I see the U106 guys are asking if someone in their group will perform this function.

I know there is another poster on this forum who is looking at how we could track this with L21 also. Hopefully, we'll get an assessment soon.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on October 10, 2012, 03:55:01 PM
... Steve is tracking the results of the Geno 2.0 U152+ kits here: ...

I'm interested in doing something VERY similar for the U106 Haplogroup and want to get in contact with Steve to ensure he is okay with me basically copying his work. I would appreciate help in getting in touch with him and I don't know if he is on this forum or not.

Ray (please feel free to send him my email - wing_genealogist AT yahoo com)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on October 10, 2012, 04:18:51 PM
Tracking R-L21 Geno 2.0 Results

I will be adding Geno 2.0 results to the R-L21 WTY Summary (http://daver.info/WTY/R-L21.pdf) pdf once they become available, and am also planning on providing a spreadsheet of complete Geno 2.0 results when possible.

See Geno 2.0 (http://daver.info/geno/) for current status and instructions. Prior to results being available, please let me know that you have the test on order so I can start doing data setup, and people can see who has tests on order. Please send kit # and project where current SNP results can be found (e.g., L21+ project) to geno@daver.info (geno@daver.info).

Regards,
david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on October 10, 2012, 05:37:26 PM
Tracking R-L21 Geno 2.0 Results

I will be adding Geno 2.0 results to the R-L21 WTY Summary (http://daver.info/WTY/R-L21.pdf) pdf once they become available, and am also planning on providing a spreadsheet of complete Geno 2.0 results when possible.

See Geno 2.0 (http://daver.info/geno/) for current status and instructions. Prior to results being available, please let me know that you have the test on order so I can start doing data setup, and people can see who has tests on order. Please send kit # and project where current SNP results can be found (e.g., L21+ project) to geno@daver.info (geno@daver.info).

Regards,
david

Beautiful. Thanks, David.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on October 10, 2012, 07:18:50 PM
... Steve is tracking the results of the Geno 2.0 U152+ kits here: ...

I'm interested in doing something VERY similar for the U106 Haplogroup and want to get in contact with Steve to ensure he is okay with me basically copying his work. I would appreciate help in getting in touch with him and I don't know if he is on this forum or not.

Ray (please feel free to send him my email - wing_genealogist AT yahoo com)

Ray, Steve is the U152 project admin and his email address is public:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/ (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152/)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on October 11, 2012, 01:06:22 AM
Rick,

Thanks for the link. I did search for the U152 Project for Steve's email, but couldn't find the link.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: stoneman on October 11, 2012, 06:16:27 AM
I deleted my email from NG Geno2.0 by accident.How can I retrieve my ID number?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on October 11, 2012, 07:24:53 AM
I deleted my email from NG Geno2.0 by accident.How can I retrieve my ID number?

If I remember correctly, it should be the same as the number on the vials you'll receive, no?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: stoneman on October 11, 2012, 10:37:27 AM
Youre right. I haven't received anything yet.It will be awhile before I get mine here in Ireland. If I had the number I could have tracked it.



I deleted my email from NG Geno2.0 by accident.How can I retrieve my ID number?

If I remember correctly, it should be the same as the number on the vials you'll receive, no?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on October 11, 2012, 02:23:29 PM
Youre right. I haven't received anything yet.It will be awhile before I get mine here in Ireland. If I had the number I could have tracked it.



I deleted my email from NG Geno2.0 by accident.How can I retrieve my ID number?

If I remember correctly, it should be the same as the number on the vials you'll receive, no?

If you sign into the NatGeo store which is separate from your Genographic id. you will see a history of your purchases. If you forgot your password they will resend a temporary one by inputting your eMail.
You cad retrieve your Genographic id. in a similar manner. When I reactivated my NGID I was surprised to see that it separates Y and MtDNA into two separate accounts with separate usernames and eMail which is not very convenient. Have they not heard of single sign on?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on October 11, 2012, 06:26:09 PM
Piggybacking upon Steve Gilbert's U152 Tracking spreadsheet, I have created a similar spreadsheet for U106 & its subclades at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av9lu-SZDcLodFR1Ump6a0lCTmlqUTNjd3Jwd2VIbUE (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av9lu-SZDcLodFR1Ump6a0lCTmlqUTNjd3Jwd2VIbUE)

I would be more than happy to add anyone's results in this spreadsheet (assuming they are U106+)

Thanks to Steve for permission to use the format he developed!


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Newragh on October 11, 2012, 06:42:56 PM
I have been at a terminal SNP for two years now, but I read up-thread that there are supposed to be three new SNPs downstream of my R-M222.

Has this really been verified and is it recommended for M222 men to take the NatGeo one?

Thanks


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on October 11, 2012, 07:12:41 PM
Christmas in October...I received my Geno 2.0 kit today!


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on October 11, 2012, 07:29:33 PM
I have been at a terminal SNP for two years now, but I read up-thread that there are supposed to be three new SNPs downstream of my R-M222.

Has this really been verified and is it recommended for M222 men to take the NatGeo one?

Thanks

Quote from Bennett Greenspan below, which confirms this. I was expecting Spencer Wells detailed paper listing the SNP and available via Thomas Krahns database to be out by now or at least by the end of October. This would certainly help potential testers make a decision on whether to test or not.

"By way of example, in haplogroup R-M222 – the new Geno chip includes discoveries of at least three unique SNP’s downstream of R-M222.

These 10,000 new SNPs will provide, for almost everyone, one or two additional clades (subhaplogroups) down the tree from where they are located today.  For some people, these will reach into a genealogical timeframe, connecting their SNPs and their STR data.  The STR tests will then be used to further augment the Geno 2.0 SNP tests for genealogical comparisons within families."


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Newragh on October 11, 2012, 07:40:06 PM
"By way of example, in haplogroup R-M222 – the new Geno chip includes discoveries of at least three unique SNP’s downstream of R-M222.

Thanks, I just ordered.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Terry Barton on October 11, 2012, 07:59:57 PM
I received my 2.0 kit today, too. 

Terry
R1b-L196


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: OConnor on October 11, 2012, 10:07:25 PM
would Geno 2.0 be recommended for someone who is DF13**  ??


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: stoneman on October 12, 2012, 03:33:39 AM
Youre right. I haven't received anything yet.It will be awhile before I get mine here in Ireland. If I had the number I could have tracked it.



I deleted my email from NG Geno2.0 by accident.How can I retrieve my ID number?

If I remember correctly, it should be the same as the number on the vials you'll receive, no?

If you sign into the NatGeo store which is separate from your Genographic id. you will see a history of your purchases. If you forgot your password they will resend a temporary one by inputting your eMail.
You cad retrieve your Genographic id. in a similar manner. When I reactivated my NGID I was surprised to see that it separates Y and MtDNA into two separate accounts with separate usernames and eMail which is not very convenient. Have they not heard of single sign on?



Go raibh maith agat


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on October 12, 2012, 03:39:21 AM
would Geno 2.0 be recommended for someone who is DF13**  ??

Mike,
Brunetmj is Df13* and I understand his test is shipping now. You may want to wait for initial results to come in or when the detailed study from Spencer Wells is published. As Bennett Greenspan said most people will discover one of two SNPs downstream from where they are now. However as you have already tested negative for several SNPs downstream of L21 this may lower the odds. My hope would be that many of the elusive * and ** SNPs will be discovered. Also this round of testing will massively increase the database and the potential for discovering new SNPs so the next iteration of the chip (whenever that may be) will be more comprehensive.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: df.reynolds on October 12, 2012, 03:41:54 AM
I have 24 pending Geno 2.0 tests listed in the L21+ WTY/Geno 2.0 Summary (http://daver.info/WTY/R-L21.pdf). If you are testing Geno 2.0 with an L21+ kit and would like to be included in the eventual summary (once results start coming in), please send an e-mail to geno@daver.info with your kit number.

Regards,
david


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on October 12, 2012, 10:30:03 AM
Word is that there are already more than 500,000 Geno 2 participants registered.

I guess this could be called a popular product.

Edit: This 500,000+ figure may be Geno 1 + Geno 2.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Diana on October 13, 2012, 03:36:32 PM
Hi there,
  I am confused as to if it is or is not the same price for those who have already tested with FTDNA and have done the previous conversion to the genographic project and if we are to order from FTDNA or genographic project? 

  Thank you
IMPORTANT NOTE: If you are an existing FTDNA customer, please do not pre-order through National Geographic at this time. There is no advantage to doing so, it will likely cost you more, and at this point, it is not at all clear what will happen if you do so -- you may end up with some test results under your current kit, and the Geno 2.0 results underneath a different kit number. Please give FTDNA a chance to clarify what current customers should do to make sure we don't end up with an IT nightmare.

Geno 2.0
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/about/

* Does not include STRs -- does not replace Y37/Y67/Y111 tests
* Does not predict family relationships -- does not replace Family Finder
* Is not a full mitochrondial sequence -- does not replace FMS
* Contains no medical information (avoid wrath of Big Brother)

* If pre-ordered from National Geographic, will ship no later than 30 Oct, but expected to go out in early September
* 6-8 weeks for results, no waiting list expected
* FTDNA customers will have the option to test an existing sample at an upgrade price. Link will appear on the myFTDNA page if the kit is eligible (late summer, early fall)

* Does replace the current Deep Clade tests
* No cost to transfer results from National Geographic to FTDNA
* 12,000 Y SNPs
* 3,352 mtDNA SNPs (if you see 32,000 referenced, they are referring to the number of probes necessary to accurately sample 3,352 mtDNA SNPs)
* Some 130,000 autosomal and X-chromosomal Ancestry Informative Markers, derived from roughly 450 populations around the globe
* Focus is deep ancestry, not finding relatives
* Raw data will be available for download
* Reference population data will be downloadable
* 400 WTY and 500 Y Samples were tested as proof of concept -- 5,291 new nodes found to add to the haplotree

Per Thomas Krahn:
* Cutoff on Y SNPs was rough Nov 2011; new DF, L, Z SNPs found after that won't be included [but will be in a future custom chip update]
* Not all "known" Y-SNPs will be available -- "not all SNPs can be typed on a chip"
* Spencer Wells has a paper pending; once that is published, information on markers being tested will be available via Thomas's db. [this fall for the paper??]

Question: Custom Illumina chip was vetted by running against 400 pre-existing WTY samples, finding over 5,000 new nodes to add to the haplotree. Will customers be able to order an "upgrade" for their sample and obtain this data, sooner than later? (Since it already exists.)

Blogs which discuss Geno 2.0:
http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/
http://genealem-geneticgenealogy.blogspot.com/
http://legalgenealogist.com/blog/2012/07/25/geno-2-0-launches/
http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/07/the-genographic-project-onto-the-autosome/#more-17526
http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on October 13, 2012, 04:28:05 PM
@Diana,

All Nat Geno tests have to be ordered from the National Geographic Society.

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk&code=MR20936 (http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk&code=MR20936)

There was a $30  but only those folks who actually purchased the 1.0 test directly from NGS (rather than the folks who converted from FTDNA for the $15 fee) was eligible for the .


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Diana on October 13, 2012, 04:42:06 PM
  Okay so even if you did the conversion one would still need to purchase the kit full price is that right?  The last part of your reply was cut off...

  Thank you much!

@Diana,

All Nat Geno tests have to be ordered from the National Geographic Society.

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk&code=MR20936 (http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2001246&gsk&code=MR20936)

There was a $30  but only those folks who actually purchased the 1.0 test directly from NGS (rather than the folks who converted from FTDNA for the $15 fee) was eligible for the .


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on October 13, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Oops, sorry about the cutoff.

Yup, even if you did the conversion, you would still need to purchase at the full price.


Ray


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on October 14, 2012, 03:36:37 AM
Yes i purchased the geno 2.0 kit with _discount because i sent my NG first phase code..
Also i am N9198 at Ftdna..
 
Today My order it's always in process..
I await.. when will be .. in Itay..

I am L20+ and i  looking forward to be able to compare the data with those of Gilbert ,, other L20+..

I always have to thank both Gilbert and Rocca and Feher, such as project administrators U152+, for all their exciting work and advice they have given to me ..
 
Does anyone know if NG are starting to ship the kit geno 2.0 also  in Europe?

Ciao from Italy..
Giuseppe - Joseph  (Bolgeris)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on October 17, 2012, 12:20:43 PM
Today....my geno 2.0 shipped to Italy...  !!

Order Tracking

Date Placed: 5-set-2012
Status: Shipped


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on October 17, 2012, 12:40:58 PM
Today....my geno 2.0 shipped to Italy...  !!

Order Tracking

Date Placed: 5-set-2012
Status: Shipped


That's great news Giuseppe. Just an update on my kit - Nat Geo has received it and is now showing in the "DNA Isolation" phase.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on October 17, 2012, 01:32:01 PM
UPS tracking shows that my third cousin has received his Geno 2.0 kit. Unfortunately, he is not on my direct Y-DNA line, but this cousin is a direct male descendent of my paternal great-grandfather's wife's paternal grandfather. So this great-great-great-grandfather would be my oldest documented ancestor on any line, born around 1800. Will be interesting to see what his Y-DNA haplogroup turns out to be.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on October 19, 2012, 03:27:09 PM
I am coordinating a Nat Geno 2.0 testing spreadsheet  (http://"http://https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av9lu-SZDcLodFR1Ump6a0lCTmlqUTNjd3Jwd2VIbUE#gid=0")for the U106 Project. I am looking for someone who is L11+ but U106- to add to this spreadsheet. Having someone outside of U106 hopefully will help us identify which new SNPs would fall under U106 and which will fall above U106.

Is there anyone on this forum who would be willing to serve in this capacity for us?  

Thanks in Advance,

Ray

feel free to contact me at: wing_genealogist AT yahoo DOT com


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on October 21, 2012, 03:32:40 AM
I asked to Natgeo if it was possible to trace the shipment of the geno 2.0 kit ..
and this was the answer, which shows that the European kits are shipped from the UK.

"We would be happy to assist with your inquiry. Your order .... was shipped from our UK store,  unfortunately we do not have any tracking information for this order".

So i remain confident waiting for the 2.0 gen kit.

ciao.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Solothurn on October 22, 2012, 12:21:48 PM
This I didn't know!

Can you please tell me, what shipping method you will be using to return the kit?

Thanks




"Your order .... was shipped from our UK store,".




Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on October 22, 2012, 02:06:26 PM
I ordered geno 2.0 ..
Geno 2.0 - Genographic Project Participation and DNA Ancestry Kit, Europe & Australia Delivery
It was for european shipment..
There were only one shipment.. to Europe & Australia..  
ciao.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on October 24, 2012, 12:23:33 PM
Finally 24 oct I have taken to my nearest post office my geno 2.0  kit.
The package is being shipped on October 12, from Essex UK. And was received on 23 October. I think it's a normal time of delivery, for an expedition sent by ordinary mail.
25 oct i sent the kit in the U.S.A.
Ciao.
Giuseppe


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Newragh on October 27, 2012, 10:29:43 PM
I just sent in my DNA sample to Geno 2.0 and hope that there is some new granularity within M222.

I think that for the general R1b problem to be solved, a special case, like Ireland, must be solved first. Ireland being special because it has been generally isolated since the Common Era began.

I am not as knowledgeable with respect to DNA studies as the people on this forum are, which is why I read it and the old DNA-forum as well as EU Pedia. My background is in Mathematics and I can only approach the problem from that perspective.

There are only three new population candidates in the past 2000 years and they seem all to be well defined.

The Ulster Plantation: Their descendants are identified with no ambiguity.
The Vikings: It seems the consensus that they added only a small amount to the Irish gene pool. There was a discussion on EU Pedia recently to the effect that prominent Irish families adopted Norse names for their children like Manus and Ragnal. So a Mac Manus didn't mean a Norse family, only an Irish family who liked novel names.
Cambrio-Normans: This is not immediately solvable, but with the proper DNA testing of the known descendants of the original lines, the Norman line may well be distinguishable from the native Irish tenants who later took their name.

The landowner of my gg-grandfather from Louth was called Lord Louth and was a Plunkett who was a relative of Saint Oliver Plunkett. As late as 1900, there was a beautiful Lady Louth who graced the cover of some horsey magazine. Her male descendants should be easily identified and hopefully tested.

It seems reasonable that many of the prominent Norman families have known descendants and their data could be used to extrapolate the missing families.

So I think that Ireland is solvable with enough testing. This assumes that the work that has been done in the past few years about the non-M222 sub clades of L21 continues.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on October 28, 2012, 11:07:09 AM
So I think that Ireland is solvable with enough testing.

I agree, and hopefully the Irish DNA Atlas project will go a long way in that regard:

http://www.familyhistory.ie/docs/DNA/DNA_01.pdf



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: brunetmj on October 28, 2012, 05:11:05 PM
I received 2 emails from national geographic . The first acknowledged my kit was received and the 2nd , a few days later, that the 2nd step, DNA isolation , has begun .
So far it appears they are good about notifications .


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: aidan on October 29, 2012, 02:35:39 PM
I ordered the test on July 31st and it still hasn't shipped. It says 'In Process'. Has anyone else from Ireland received their kit yet?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: chris1 on October 29, 2012, 03:54:16 PM
The landowner of my gg-grandfather from Louth was called Lord Louth and was a Plunkett who was a relative of Saint Oliver Plunkett. As late as 1900, there was a beautiful Lady Louth who graced the cover of some horsey magazine. Her male descendants should be easily identified and hopefully tested.

There is a distinctive (STR modal) group of 11 related Meath/Louth Plunketts with 67 markers who are said on the Plunkett DNA Project to probably be related to Saint Oliver. It doesn't look like they are actively testing newer SNPs, however. One (58900) is U152- and U106- but no sign of L21 or DF27 having been tested on the project's SNP table.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Plunkett/default.aspx?section=yresults


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on October 30, 2012, 03:25:44 AM
There's an article on an Italian website mentioning Geno 2.0, Spencer Wells and Luca Cavalli-Sforza and results being presented on Nov. 9 in Florence, as part of Florens 2012 - International Biennial of cultural and environmental assets.

Google's translator doesn't help me determine if said presentation features more results from Geno 1, or details of Geno 2.0, or both.

Perhaps somebody here with Italian language skills can help clarity that.

http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/tecnologie/2012-10-27/quei-link-uniscono-percorsi-180853.shtml?uuid=AbNjOUxG


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on October 30, 2012, 07:03:07 AM
There's an article on an Italian website mentioning Geno 2.0, Spencer Wells and Luca Cavalli-Sforza and results being presented on Nov. 9 in Florence, as part of Florens 2012 - International Biennial of cultural and environmental assets.

Google's translator doesn't help me determine if said presentation features more results from Geno 1, or details of Geno 2.0, or both.

Perhaps somebody here with Italian language skills can help clarity that.

http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/tecnologie/2012-10-27/quei-link-uniscono-percorsi-180853.shtml?uuid=AbNjOUxG


Here is the NG slot for the Florence conference (Nov 9).
ore 15.00 - 18.30
Deep ancestry: inside the genographic project
a cura di National Geographic
organised by National Geographic

The timing makes sense. It is the day before the FTDNA conference in Houston (Nov 10-12).
Dr. Wells is scheduled to join that conference by Skype to talk about Geno 2.0.

http://www.familytreedna.com/conference/

It also corresponds to the American Society of Human Genetics conference in SF (Nov 6-10).

http://www.ashg.org/2012meeting/abstracts/fulltext/index.shtml

This ASHG event has several interesting papers. I look forward to the new Ancestry Painting 2.0 using 20 reference populations and will be interested to see the European reference populations they use? I would also like to see a detailed breakdown of the sampled group if possible by haplogroup and origin.  
I am very interested in the People of the British Isles, POBI paper in the same conference. This is a follow up from the Summer exhibition in the Royal Academy. Hopefully this time we will get the detailed Genetic Atlas of Britain. I am participating in the Irish DNA Atlas project so I will be interested in eventually comparing results when that study is published. What is interesting is they have compared the results to reference European populations. Which populations remains to be seen.

All in all an interesting week for Genetic genealogy.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on October 30, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
There's an article on an Italian website mentioning Geno 2.0, Spencer Wells and Luca Cavalli-Sforza and results being presented on Nov. 9 in Florence, as part of Florens 2012 - International Biennial of cultural and environmental assets.

Google's translator doesn't help me determine if said presentation features more results from Geno 1, or details of Geno 2.0, or both.

Perhaps somebody here with Italian language skills can help clarity that.

http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/tecnologie/2012-10-27/quei-link-uniscono-percorsi-180853.shtml?uuid=AbNjOUxG


Here is the NG slot for the Florence conference (Nov 9).
ore 15.00 - 18.30
Deep ancestry: inside the genographic project
a cura di National Geographic
organised by National Geographic

The timing makes sense. It is the day before the FTDNA conference in Houston (Nov 10-12).
Dr. Wells is scheduled to join that conference by Skype to talk about Geno 2.0.

http://www.familytreedna.com/conference/

It also corresponds to the American Society of Human Genetics conference in SF (Nov 6-10).

http://www.ashg.org/2012meeting/abstracts/fulltext/index.shtml

This ASHG event has several interesting papers. I look forward to the new Ancestry Painting 2.0 using 20 reference populations and will be interested to see the European reference populations they use? I would also like to see a detailed breakdown of the sampled group if possible by haplogroup and origin.  
I am very interested in the People of the British Isles, POBI paper in the same conference. This is a follow up from the Summer exhibition in the Royal Academy. Hopefully this time we will get the detailed Genetic Atlas of Britain. I am participating in the Irish DNA Atlas project so I will be interested in eventually comparing results when that study is published. What is interesting is they have compared the results to reference European populations. Which populations remains to be seen.

All in all an interesting week for Genetic genealogy.

It sure is an interesting week, and I'll be counting down the days.

The PoBI paper is keenly awaited by a very large number of people and, among other things, I'm hoping that it may ultimately spur interest from European countries to carry out similar major projects with their own populations.

The European reference population (IIRC) numbers some 6,500 samples. It will indeed be interesting to learn the spread and depth of those.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: saje on November 01, 2012, 02:44:51 PM
How in depth does Geno test for your haplogroup?  Does it test all markers downstream? 

Thanks


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 01, 2012, 03:48:23 PM
How in depth does Geno test for your haplogroup?  Does it test all markers downstream?  

Thanks


From Bennet Greenspan's Q&A on the announcement of Geno 2.0.

"Q:  Does Family Tree DNA plan to offer a test that will be more extensive then the new Genographic test for the Y chromosome?

A:  No. The most extensive test for obtaining YDNA SNP data is available on the Geno 2.0 chip and Family Tree DNA has no plans to compete with its partner.  STR results will not be supplied by Geno 2.0 and all regular genealogical marker tests should be ordered through Family Tree DNA.  These two tests go hand in hand.

By way of example, in haplogroup R-M222 – the new Geno chip includes discoveries of at least three unique SNP’s downstream of R-M222.

These 10,000 new SNPs will provide, for almost everyone, one or two additional clades (subhaplogroups) down the tree from where they are located today.  For some people, these will reach into a genealogical timeframe, connecting their SNPs and their STR data.  The STR tests will then be used to further augment the Geno 2.0 SNP tests for genealogical comparisons within families."

Roberta's blog on the announcement is really very good.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/07/25/national-geographic-geno-2-0-announcement-the-human-story/

The first results should start coming in before the holidays and I hope the detailed paper will be published around the 9th November, when Spencer Wells discusses it at two events. The real work will then begin identifying the new SNPs from the expanded customer base and placing them correctly in the Phylogenic Tree and priming subsequent versions of the chip.
Just based on the current test base alone of 900 Y chromosome kits, the haplotree expanded from 862 SNPs to a total of 6153. Imagine what it will do with another 1000 or 10,000 or 100,000 tests.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 04, 2012, 06:55:00 AM
There will be a poster presentation of the new Geno 2.0 chip at next weeks ASHG conference in SF.
There are also several separate poster presentations of case studies using the platform.
No indication if the detailed set of SNPs will be published, which is disappointing.

The GenoChip: a new tool for genetic anthropology
Title: The GenoChip: a new tool for genetic anthropology.(3377W) (2:15PM-3:15PM on Wed) (Poster)
Author(s): S. Wells, E. Greenspan, S. Staats, T. Krahn, C. Tyler-Smith, Y. Xue, S. Tofanelli, P. Francalacci, F. Cucca, L. Pagani, L. Jin, H. Li, T. G. Schurr, J. B. Gaieski, C. Melendez, M. G. Vilar, A. C. Owings, R. Gomez, R. Fujita, F. Santos, D. Comas, O. Balanovsky, E. Balanovska, P. Zalloua, H. Soodyall, R. Pitchappan, G. Arun Kumar, M. F. Hammer, B. Greenspan, E. Elhaik

"Background: The Genographic Project is an international effort aimed at charting human history using genetic data. The project is non-profit and non-medical, and through the sale of its public participation kits it supports cultural preservation efforts in indigenous and traditional communities. To extend our knowledge of the human journey, interbreeding with ancient hominins, and modern human demographic history, we designed a genotyping chip optimized for genetic anthropology research. Methods: Our goal was to design, produce, and validate a SNP array dedicated to genetic anthropology. The GenoChip is an Illumina HD iSelect genotyping bead array with over 130,000 highly informative autosomal and X-chromosomal SNPs ascertained from over 450 worldwide populations, ~13,000 Y-chromosomal SNPs, and ~3,000 mtDNA SNPs. To determine the extent of gene flow from archaic hominins to modern humans, we included over 25,000 SNPs from candidate regions of interbreeding between extinct hominins (Neanderthal and Denisovan) and modern humans. To avoid any inadvertent medical testing we filtered out all SNPs that have known or suspected health or functional associations. We validated the chip by genotyping over 1,000 samples from 1000 Genomes, Family Tree DNA, and Genographic Project populations. Results: The concordance between the GenoChip and the 1000 Genomes data was over 99.5%. The GenoChip has a SNP density of approximately (1/100,000) bases over 92% of the human genome and is highly compatible with Illumina and Affymetrix commercial platforms. The ~10,000 novel Y SNPs included on the chip have greatly refined our understanding of the Y-chromosome phylogenetic tree. By including Y and mtDNA SNPs on an unprecedented scale, the GenoChip is able to delineate extremely detailed human migratory paths. The autosomal and X-chromosomal markers included on the GenoChip have revealed novel patterns of ancestry that shed a detailed new light on human history. Interbreeding analysis with extinct hominids confirmed some previous reports and allowed us to describe the modern geographical distribution of these markers in detail. Conclusions: The GenoChip is the first genotyping chip completely dedicated to genetic anthropology with no known medically relevant markers. We anticipate that the large-scale application of the GenoChip using the Genographic Project’s diverse sample collection will provide new insights into genetic anthropology and human history."

http://abstracts.ashg.org/cgi-bin/2012/ashg12s


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 04, 2012, 07:48:40 AM
Quote
No indication if the detailed set of SNPs will be published, which is disappointing.

I expect that sort of detail will be a supplement to a fully-fledged paper to be published in one of the big journals ... but when?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Paul Burns on November 07, 2012, 05:38:18 PM
I notice just now that that my Geno kit has been "promoted" from Stage 1 (20% complete)  to Stage 2 (40% "DNA Isolation"). Progress!


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 08, 2012, 03:33:35 AM
There was a posting on the Genealogy-DNA Rootsweb list by Gary Miller, who attended the ASHG conference in San Francisco. His image of the Geno 2.0 handout is here:

http://www.millerfamilyhistory.com/geno2.jpg


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on November 08, 2012, 01:51:42 PM
My kit is now in Stage 3 (60% Complete - DNA Analysis). As per the graphic, this means...

"This process typically takes around six to ten days. The next stage in your analysis will be a quality control step, after which your results will be uploaded to the website for you to see."

So it looks like the results will likely be posted in about two weeks.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on November 09, 2012, 08:20:19 AM
Well, the process took a lot shorter than I expected - in the last 24 hours, my status has been changed to 80% Complete. My kit is now in the Quality Control stage. I suspect the kit may have been previously sequenced and the status updated only after Spencer Wells gave his presentation on Geno 2.0. Either way, I will report the results, and more importantly the format as soon as I get them.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on November 09, 2012, 09:28:17 AM
I suspect the kit may have been previously sequenced and the status updated only after Spencer Wells gave his presentation on Geno 2.0.

It isn’t said that who has the control of firms and tests does arrive before us. We may have understood (and written) what they are discovering long before them.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on November 09, 2012, 09:56:51 AM
What actions will Geno 2.0 customers need to take to transfer their results to FTDNA?
1) if they are an FTDNA customer already?
2) if they are not an FTDNA customer?

What will the results look like and where will they show up for Y DNA?  I presume the Haplotree but do we even know if they will use the standard lab discovery format for SNPs?

Will no calls be absent or will they be negatives (minus sign)?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on November 09, 2012, 10:07:58 AM
I suspect the kit may have been previously sequenced and the status updated only after Spencer Wells gave his presentation on Geno 2.0.

It isn’t said that who has the control of firms and tests does arrive before us. We may have understood (and written) what they are discovering long before them.

I suspect I am going to be one of the first to get results because:

1. I live in the USA.
2. I returned my sample via overnight priority mail the day I received the kit.

Hopefully the added expense works in my favor.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on November 09, 2012, 10:19:56 AM
What actions will Geno 2.0 customers need to take to transfer their results to FTDNA?
1) if they are an FTDNA customer already?
2) if they are not an FTDNA customer?

What will the results look like and where will they show up for Y DNA?  I presume the Haplotree but do we even know if they will use the standard lab discovery format for SNPs?

Will no calls be absent or will they be negatives (minus sign)?

These are all the mystery questions we waiting for. I suspect the raw data will be the most valuable part of the test, but I am most curious to see how the Geno 2.0 results will be mapped/reflected in FTDNA.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on November 09, 2012, 10:27:11 AM
What actions will Geno 2.0 customers need to take to transfer their results to FTDNA?
1) if they are an FTDNA customer already?
2) if they are not an FTDNA customer?

What will the results look like and where will they show up for Y DNA?  I presume the Haplotree but do we even know if they will use the standard lab discovery format for SNPs?

Will no calls be absent or will they be negatives (minus sign)?

These are all the mystery questions we waiting for. I suspect the raw data will be the most valuable part of the test, but I am most curious to see how the Geno 2.0 results will be mapped/reflected in FTDNA.

I hope that at least it will be easy one-button stuff for the consumer to get the data over to FTDNA where it could be seen in a project screen, regardless of the data format.  If we can see it and it is consistently formatted, we can deal with it.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 09, 2012, 12:16:47 PM
I just listened to a podcast from the Florence conference on Geno 2.0.
It is pretty general  stuff. No insights into new SNPs.
Two professors from Italy, one from Florence discussed the Neanderthal component.
The second from Bologne University, discussed more detailed understanding of Italian DNA. A representative of NG discussed the Genographic project.
I am not overly impressed with the level of data shared to date and hope that the first results will enlighten us more. The Genographic project will have a social media function. How effective it is in engaging with the testing community remains to be seen. Genographic appeared to go dormant following the initial Geno 1.0 testing in 2005 and most of the context was provided by the volunteer commmunity on FTDNA and elsewhere. I hope they remain engaged this time round and provide a roadmap for subsequant phylogenic tree and chip updates. I do remember reading on the genealogy blogs that a transfer to FTDNA will be facilitated at a later date.

Here's an audio link to an interview of some presenters (not Spencer Wells) in Geno 2.0 in Florence:

http://audioboo.fm/boos/1049857
 


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on November 09, 2012, 12:48:21 PM
I have heard it too. Nothing new so far. The Florentine Professor is Davide Caramelli, who speaks English with a Florentine accent, but I have heard him translated in English, and was more understandable the translation than his voice. The Professor from Bologna is Davide Pettener, who announced to have investigated ancient Italian DNA. Hope that something new springs up.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: ArmandoR1b on November 09, 2012, 07:07:52 PM
Well, the process took a lot shorter than I expected - in the last 24 hours, my status has been changed to 80% Complete. My kit is now in the Quality Control stage. I suspect the kit may have been previously sequenced and the status updated only after Spencer Wells gave his presentation on Geno 2.0. Either way, I will report the results, and more importantly the format as soon as I get them.
How long did it take for it to go from Stage 1 Sample Received to Stage 3 DNA Analysis? They reported receiving my sample Oct 30. Now 10 days later on Nov 9 it is at Stage 2 DNA ISOLATION.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on November 09, 2012, 07:31:00 PM
What actions will Geno 2.0 customers need to take to transfer their results to FTDNA?
1) if they are an FTDNA customer already?
2) if they are not an FTDNA customer?

What will the results look like and where will they show up for Y DNA?  I presume the Haplotree but do we even know if they will use the standard lab discovery format for SNPs?

Will no calls be absent or will they be negatives (minus sign)?

These are all the mystery questions we waiting for. I suspect the raw data will be the most valuable part of the test, but I am most curious to see how the Geno 2.0 results will be mapped/reflected in FTDNA.

I hope that at least it will be easy one-button stuff for the consumer to get the data over to FTDNA where it could be seen in a project screen, regardless of the data format.  If we can see it and it is consistently formatted, we can deal with it.


For those who got a complimentary Geno 2.0 to test the chip, does anybody know when FTDNA will upload those results to the Nat Geo database as implied in their email below (or else make the results available within FTDNA to the testee)?

"Because your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip, your data - autosomal, mtDNA and Y (in the case of men) will be uploaded to the new National Geographic website at www.genographic.com later this fall."


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on November 09, 2012, 08:26:03 PM
Well, the process took a lot shorter than I expected - in the last 24 hours, my status has been changed to 80% Complete. My kit is now in the Quality Control stage. I suspect the kit may have been previously sequenced and the status updated only after Spencer Wells gave his presentation on Geno 2.0. Either way, I will report the results, and more importantly the format as soon as I get them.
How long did it take for it to go from Stage 1 Sample Received to Stage 3 DNA Analysis? They reported receiving my sample Oct 30. Now 10 days later on Nov 9 it is at Stage 2 DNA ISOLATION.

Stage 1: 10/16/2012
Stage 2: 11/07/2012
Stage 3: 11/08/2012
Stage 4: 11/09/2012


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: ArmandoR1b on November 09, 2012, 10:33:01 PM
Well, the process took a lot shorter than I expected - in the last 24 hours, my status has been changed to 80% Complete. My kit is now in the Quality Control stage. I suspect the kit may have been previously sequenced and the status updated only after Spencer Wells gave his presentation on Geno 2.0. Either way, I will report the results, and more importantly the format as soon as I get them.
How long did it take for it to go from Stage 1 Sample Received to Stage 3 DNA Analysis? They reported receiving my sample Oct 30. Now 10 days later on Nov 9 it is at Stage 2 DNA ISOLATION.

Stage 1: 10/16/2012
Stage 2: 11/07/2012
Stage 3: 11/08/2012
Stage 4: 11/09/2012

Thanks. It looks like mine should be Stage 4 soon then.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 10, 2012, 05:27:45 AM
Here are the 23andme  posters from the ASHG conference.

http://blog.23andme.com/23andme-research/23andmes-presentations-at-ashg/

The interesting one from an Ancestry point of view is Ancestry 2.0, "A scalable pipeline for local ancestry inference using thousands of reference individuals", which provides ancestry painting based on 20 reference populations, 13 of them European. It went on beta test yesterday based on a small test group.
The British Isles is one population component. I would like to see this broken down into Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. Perhaps we have to wait for Ancestry 3.0.

http://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/20121027_ancestry_painting_methods_poster.pdf

It will be interesting to see how it compares to Geno 2.0 approach to the same problem using AIMs.
No further information from Geno 2.0 from ASHG. Spencer Wells is scheduled to speak, via Skype, at the FTDNA conference today.



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 10, 2012, 02:45:06 PM
News from the FTDNA conference, Spencer Wells presentation. (Via Twitter).
1) Between 10,000 and 100,000 Geno 2.0 kits sold since "soft" launch
2) 43 Reference Populations. Will be updated every couple of months.
3) Geno 2.0 focused on anthropology not genealogy.
4) 50K - 100K overlap with FF and 23andme tests.
5) 6000 new SNPs to be added over next few months??
6) 2010 YCC Tree has 862 branches, Geno 2.0 chip has 6162 branches
7) 130000 validated auto and X SNPs. Paper coming soon.
8) AIMS taken from 450 world populations. More dense in old world.
9) Harness the power of the community to figure out what this genetic info means
10) New grants for community projects.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on November 10, 2012, 03:04:05 PM
Message Deleted

Terry


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 10, 2012, 03:14:39 PM
Quoted part of message deleted.  Terry


I understand the context was, significantly more than 10,000 and significantly less than 100,000.
This has probably more to do with commercial secrets rather than statistical precision.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on November 10, 2012, 03:29:19 PM
News from the FTDNA conference, Spencer Wells presentation. (Via Twitter).
1) Between 10,000 and 100,000 Geno 2.0 kits sold since "soft" launch...

That's precision for you! .. factor of x10.

Forgive me for my sarcasm, but keep in mind this is in reference to a public figure who holds himself out as an expert.

Mike,
I understand the context was, significantly more than 10,000 and significantly less than 100,000.
This has probably more to do with commercial secrets rather than statistical precision.

I knew it wasn't a statistical estimation but I just found it a bit elusive and vague. That's unfair because I don't know the whole context and exact quote.  Surely, they know, or at least could know fairly closely how many orders were made.

If they don't want to tell us, that's okay. They should just say we can't say. Perhaps he did comment within the context.  If not, I wish these guys would be a little more plain spoken and direct.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: aidan on November 10, 2012, 04:43:21 PM
My kit eventually shipped two days ago. Hopefully I'll receive it next week.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Terry Barton on November 10, 2012, 05:28:34 PM
It was clear at the Conference that the vague number was a business decision

Terry, from the Conference


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Richard Rocca on November 10, 2012, 05:56:58 PM
News from the FTDNA conference, Spencer Wells presentation. (Via Twitter).
1) Between 10,000 and 100,000 Geno 2.0 kits sold since "soft" launch
2) 43 Reference Populations. Will be updated every couple of months.
3) Geno 2.0 focused on anthropology not genealogy.
4) 50K - 100K overlap with FF and 23andme tests.
5) 6000 new SNPs to be added over next few months??
6) 2010 YCC Tree has 862 branches, Geno 2.0 chip has 6162 branches
7) 130000 validated auto and X SNPs. Paper coming soon.
8) AIMS taken from 450 world populations. More dense in old world.
9) Harness the power of the community to figure out what this genetic info means
10) New grants for community projects.


Thanks for the update.

If true, I wonder how/if the additional SNPs will be added/offered to the already tested kits, especially since they have stated in the past that they will not store DNA after the test is run.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 10, 2012, 07:51:46 PM
News from the FTDNA conference, Spencer Wells presentation. (Via Twitter).
1) Between 10,000 and 100,000 Geno 2.0 kits sold since "soft" launch
2) 43 Reference Populations. Will be updated every couple of months.
3) Geno 2.0 focused on anthropology not genealogy.
4) 50K - 100K overlap with FF and 23andme tests.
5) 6000 new SNPs to be added over next few months??
6) 2010 YCC Tree has 862 branches, Geno 2.0 chip has 6162 branches
7) 130000 validated auto and X SNPs. Paper coming soon.
8) AIMS taken from 450 world populations. More dense in old world.
9) Harness the power of the community to figure out what this genetic info means
10) New grants for community projects.


Thanks for the update.

If true, I wonder how/if the additional SNPs will be added/offered to the already tested kits, especially since they have stated in the past that they will not store DNA after the test is run.

Richard,
I was also surprised by the numbers and will try to clarify.
I understand the official launch will be around the 19th with the new web site and first results the week after Thanksgiving. We should get a good idea of which new SNPs are available at that stage.
Assuming they went from 862 - 6162 SNPs using the existing base of under 1000 samples and we assume they ramp up to 50,000 customers by end of year we could expect a lot of new SNPs discovered in that timeframe. I would assume the newly discovered SNPs would be included in subsequent versions of the chip.
I would expect them to have a release roadmap on an annual basis.
I do not know what the policy is for storing DNA. I remember mine was stored for Geno 1.0 and subsequently transferred to FTDNA. Is there a separate policy for kits used during the testing phase.

Edit
Thanks to CeCe, Katherine, Emily, Roberta for their Tweets.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on November 10, 2012, 08:04:43 PM
Message Deleted

Miles (I just didn't want to be left out)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on November 10, 2012, 08:20:11 PM
I havent ordered Gen2.0 yet awaiting the upgraded but when I join the project several weeks ago, and under my login, it shows:

You
Are 1 of 524,384
people who are participating in the genographic project

If you go to their join page it will say the same thing.


I did transfer my Ftdna DNA to them way back but I didnt register then.

MJost


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 10, 2012, 11:10:49 PM
I havent ordered Gen2.0 yet awaiting the upgraded but when I join the project several weeks ago, and under my login, it shows:

You
Are 1 of 524,384
people who are participating in the genographic project



... to which NG should add "since its inception in 2005".


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on November 11, 2012, 01:49:01 AM
Message Deleted

Terry

I think a criticism of Dr Wells is my undoing. It wasn't obscene. I just think he is a little vague and unresponsive.

I guess that is bad. So be it. Bye.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 11, 2012, 01:56:30 AM
Message Deleted

Terry

I think a criticism of Dr Wells is my undoing. It wasn't obscene. I just think he is a little vague and unresponsive.

I didn't see what you posted but I would not have expected obscenity from you in any case.

I agree with you that not a lot of what was (reportedly) presented was new to those of us who have been following Geno 2 news and commentary since it was first announced, but I guess SW is holding his fire for his forthcoming paper, which he reportedly said was in draft status (whether that's internal draft or peer-review draft is unclear).

Quote
I guess that is bad. So be it. Bye.

Bye? I hope you are not leaving us.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 11, 2012, 08:13:35 AM
Message Deleted

Terry

I think a criticism of Dr Wells is my undoing. It wasn't obscene. I just think he is a little vague and unresponsive.

I guess that is bad. So be it. Bye.

Mike,
I did not see anything offensive in your post. Nat Gen have spent three intensive days communicating their message at Florence, ASHG and FTDNA and the social media, blogs and Twitter are full of their announcements. It is perfectly legitimate to comment on their style of communication.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Terry Barton on November 11, 2012, 10:41:39 AM
Mike, I hope you stay.  Terry


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on November 11, 2012, 01:44:48 PM
These are all the mystery questions we waiting for. I suspect the raw data will be the most valuable part of the test, but I am most curious to see how the Geno 2.0 results will be mapped/reflected in FTDNA.
I hope that at least it will be easy one-button stuff for the consumer to get the data over to FTDNA where it could be seen in a project screen, regardless of the data format.  If we can see it and it is consistently formatted, we can deal with it.
For those who got a complimentary Geno 2.0 to test the chip, does anybody know when FTDNA will upload those results to the Nat Geo database as implied in their email below (or else make the results available within FTDNA to the testee)?

"Because your sample was used to help test the Geno 2.0 chip, your data - autosomal, mtDNA and Y (in the case of men) will be uploaded to the new National Geographic website at www.genographic.com later this fall."

Here is a post today from rootsweb on my question above...

---------------------------
From: "grandcross"
Subject: Re: [DNA] Geno 2 FYI..
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 00:03:21 -0600

My very early WTY results (2007) also were chosen by Genographic and I was
advised of this in September. Bennett told me yesterday at the conference my
Geno 2 analysis would be made available before the first week of December.
He acknowledged some internal FTDNA administrative work would have to be
done before that happened, the point being he is aware we who participated
in this way are outside the normal access procedures for those who paid for
their kits.
---------------------------


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on November 11, 2012, 01:51:11 PM
Message Deleted

Terry

I think a criticism of Dr Wells is my undoing. It wasn't obscene. I just think he is a little vague and unresponsive.

I guess that is bad. So be it. Bye.

Mike critique of Wells' communication was very mild compared to many other criticisms of experts in the field that have been posted here in the past. I hope Mike is just taking Veteran's Day weekend off.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on November 11, 2012, 11:25:58 PM
Message Deleted

Terry

I think a criticism of Dr Wells is my undoing. It wasn't obscene. I just think he is a little vague and unresponsive.

I guess that is bad. So be it. Bye.

Mike critique of Wells' communication was very mild compared to many other criticisms of experts in the field that have been posted here in the past. I hope Mike is just taking Veteran's Day weekend off.

He's not coming back. He's had enough. What a shame. What a loss.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 12, 2012, 11:52:12 AM
News from the FTDNA conference, Spencer Wells presentation. (Via Twitter).
1) Between 10,000 and 100,000 Geno 2.0 kits sold since "soft" launch
2) 43 Reference Populations. Will be updated every couple of months.
3) Geno 2.0 focused on anthropology not genealogy.
4) 50K - 100K overlap with FF and 23andme tests.
5) 6000 new SNPs to be added over next few months??
6) 2010 YCC Tree has 862 branches, Geno 2.0 chip has 6162 branches
7) 130000 validated auto and X SNPs. Paper coming soon.
8) AIMS taken from 450 world populations. More dense in old world.
9) Harness the power of the community to figure out what this genetic info means
10) New grants for community projects.


Thanks for the update.

If true, I wonder how/if the additional SNPs will be added/offered to the already tested kits, especially since they have stated in the past that they will not store DNA after the test is run.

Richard,
I was also surprised by the numbers and will try to clarify.
I understand the official launch will be around the 19th with the new web site and first results the week after Thanksgiving. We should get a good idea of which new SNPs are available at that stage.
Assuming they went from 862 - 6162 SNPs using the existing base of under 1000 samples and we assume they ramp up to 50,000 customers by end of year we could expect a lot of new SNPs discovered in that timeframe. I would assume the newly discovered SNPs would be included in subsequent versions of the chip.
I would expect them to have a release roadmap on an annual basis.
I do not know what the policy is for storing DNA. I remember mine was stored for Geno 1.0 and subsequently transferred to FTDNA. Is there a separate policy for kits used during the testing phase.

Edit
Thanks to CeCe, Katherine, Emily, Roberta for their Tweets.

Richard,

That 6000 number for new SNPs coming appears to be correct. New meaning not yet published or placed on the tree but identified by other researchers. Someone estimated there were already 24K subscribers based on a snapshot from the counter on the Nat Geo site. Here is a comment from Yahoo Groups.

"Spencer says 4,500 SNPs from 1000 gemomes project on the chip, 745 are z SNPs, but 3,850 are other SNPs from 1kG. His paper is not ready. In 2010 there were 862 SNPs on the y tree. now 6,000, plus 6,000 more coming.
>
autosomal results will show what native populations you are closest to, and percentage Mediterranean, North European, etc
>
Y and mtDNA result will show you in a circle with closest relatives around you, and you will be able so share stories."


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 13, 2012, 10:19:59 AM
Message Deleted

Terry

I think a criticism of Dr Wells is my undoing. It wasn't obscene. I just think he is a little vague and unresponsive.

I guess that is bad. So be it. Bye.

Mike critique of Wells' communication was very mild compared to many other criticisms of experts in the field that have been posted here in the past. I hope Mike is just taking Veteran's Day weekend off.

He's not coming back. He's had enough. What a shame. What a loss.

So, it's confirmed? Bummer!


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on November 13, 2012, 03:49:52 PM
The release of the results of the Nat Geno 2.0 project will be warmly welcomed (with the promise of thousands of new Y-SNPs). However, there will be a fair bit of distress by the folks at ISOGG who then have the Herculean task of placing all of these new SNPs on their tree.

I hope folks will have patience with ISOGG through this process, and understand the expected delay will not be due to their ineffectiveness. The National Geographic Society (and FTDNA) have had at least a year to take these SNPs and add them to their tree. AFAIK ISOGG has not received an advanced copy of this tree, but must wait until NGS publicly releases it.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 13, 2012, 04:13:22 PM
I would highly recommend that everyone read Roberta Esres blog on the FTDNA conference.
It is well written, compelling and funny.
Highlights include Spencer Wells update on Geno 2.0, Thomas Krahn, Michael Hammer and Bonnie Schrack made an amazing discovery on the base A Haplogroup with huge implications for the age and origin of mankind and an interesting presentation from Dr. Tyrone Bowes on finding an Irish or Scottish ancestors location based on recurring family names. The quality of all the presentations was very high. Roberta, CeCe Moore, Emily Aulicino, and Katherine Bourges provided a constant Twitter feed from the conference on #ftdna2012 which allowed me to follow it live from Munich.

http://dna-explained.com/




Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on November 13, 2012, 05:23:14 PM
My Geno 2.0 sample has been under analysis since Wednesday, 11/7/12. Perhaps that's a good sign. I'm R1b-DF23 and maybe they've found a new SNP between DF23 and M222.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on November 13, 2012, 05:39:10 PM
Has anyone read what kind of download file format the Geno2.0 will be?

MJost


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Jdean on November 13, 2012, 07:07:15 PM
My Geno 2.0 sample has been under analysis since Wednesday, 11/7/12. Perhaps that's a good sign. I'm R1b-DF23 and maybe they've found a new SNP between DF23 and M222.

Looking forward to hearing about your results Miles



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 13, 2012, 07:08:49 PM
Has anyone read what kind of download file format the Geno2.0 will be?

MJost

I would suspect that since there are 130K+ SNPs they would use NCBI Build 37.x and not reinvent the wheel. This would give a flat file rs........  "x" format in the download file and make it compatible with FTDNA and 23andme. A separate excel or cvs file could translate the known terminal SNP to shorthand format. I believe the longhand would nor be used. Just speculation on my part.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Alpine on November 13, 2012, 07:26:29 PM
Has anyone read what kind of download file format the Geno2.0 will be?

MJost

I would suspect that since there are 130K+ SNPs they would use NCBI Build 37.x and not reinvent the wheel. This would give a flat file rs........  "x" format in the download file and make it compatible with FTDNA and 23andme. A separate excel or cvs file could translate the known terminal SNP to shorthand format. I believe the longhand would nor be used. Just speculation on my part.

recent announcement in florence indicated that they will use the rs format


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 13, 2012, 08:11:36 PM
Has anyone read what kind of download file format the Geno2.0 will be?

MJost

I would suspect that since there are 130K+ SNPs they would use NCBI Build 37.x and not reinvent the wheel. This would give a flat file rs........  "x" format in the download file and make it compatible with FTDNA and 23andme. A separate excel or cvs file could translate the known terminal SNP to shorthand format. I believe the longhand would nor be used. Just speculation on my part.

recent announcement in florence indicated that they will use the rs format


I am expecting SNPs to be called by their rs number, as is the case with 23andMe's file. In any case, not all SNPs have "shorthand" labels like L21 (and for that matter not all SNPs have rs numbers).


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on November 13, 2012, 08:32:37 PM
Thx, with all these new SNPs, I hope they provide a SNP association list as I am sure most are deeper into the trunk SNPs. We can script a search output for rs id, chr, position and genotype for M269 and newer easy enough.

MJost


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 13, 2012, 08:43:46 PM
Thx, with all these new SNPs, I hope they provide a SNP association list as I am sure most are deeper into the trunk SNPs. We can script a search output for rs id, chr, position and genotype for M269 and newer easy enough.

MJost

From some mutterings in the U106 group I get the feeling that it will be raw data only and association tables, etc, will be the responsibility of the user.

Perhaps somebody will create a look-up table that everybody can download and use (sounds like a nice job for our wonderful volunteer friends at ISOGG).


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 13, 2012, 08:44:34 PM
Has anyone read what kind of download file format the Geno2.0 will be?

MJost

I would suspect that since there are 130K+ SNPs they would use NCBI Build 37.x and not reinvent the wheel. This would give a flat file rs........  "x" format in the download file and make it compatible with FTDNA and 23andme. A separate excel or cvs file could translate the known terminal SNP to shorthand format. I believe the longhand would nor be used. Just speculation on my part.

recent announcement in florence indicated that they will use the rs format


I am expecting SNPs to be called by their rs number, as is the case with 23andMe's file. In any case, not all SNPs have "shorthand" labels like L21 (and for that matter not all SNPs have rs numbers).

I would guess that the vast majority of SNPs would be identified by their rs number. I don't need 130K SNPs to identify my ancestors. So I will be happy with the ~20 defining mutations from my terminal SNP to M269 or M343 which I can memorise. It is up to the industry stakeholders including FTDNA, 23andme, Genographic, Academia, ISOGG, YCC etc. to come up with a naming convention which is open and practical. There should, IMO, be zero tolerance for proprietary naming conventions. I suspect it will be a combination of rs and shorthand labels. However time is running out as we are about to submerged by a tsunami of new SNPs.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 13, 2012, 09:02:14 PM
Thx, with all these new SNPs, I hope they provide a SNP association list as I am sure most are deeper into the trunk SNPs. We can script a search output for rs id, chr, position and genotype for M269 and newer easy enough.

MJost

From some mutterings in the U106 group I get the feeling that it will be raw data only and association tables, etc, will be the responsibility of the user.

Perhaps somebody will create a look-up table that everybody can download and use (sounds like a nice job for our wonderful volunteer friends at ISOGG).

ISOGG already provides a hyperlink from the Phylogenetic tree (long and shorthand) to the rs number, so it should not be a big issue to do the reverse. I believe they would appreciate more volunteers to look after specific branches of the tree.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: OConnor on November 15, 2012, 09:22:48 AM
Message Deleted

Terry

I think a criticism of Dr Wells is my undoing. It wasn't obscene. I just think he is a little vague and unresponsive.

I guess that is bad. So be it. Bye.

Mike critique of Wells' communication was very mild compared to many other criticisms of experts in the field that have been posted here in the past. I hope Mike is just taking Veteran's Day weekend off.

He's not coming back. He's had enough. What a shame. What a loss.

So, it's confirmed? Bummer!

Does anyone know where else Mike posts besides here?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: razyn on November 15, 2012, 10:51:54 AM
Does anyone know where else Mike posts besides here?

There are several Yahoo groups on which you can find him, when he's in the mood to move a discussion.  I don't think he's in that mood right now, and maybe less so about the GenoChip than some other topics.  I'm interested in his proposed (or maybe in-progress) reorganization of the R1b haplogroup project at FTDNA, but that thread started here only two days before his departure.  Depending on your interests, check out the several links to haplogroup-specific discussions, below the descendancy chart at this one:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-YDNA/

I think Mike has sons still active in athletics at the University of Texas at Austin, and it's football season -- so genetic genealogy may not be the only craziness in his life at the moment.



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on November 15, 2012, 12:55:53 PM
I think Mike has sons still active in athletics at the University of Texas at Austin, and it's football season -- so genetic genealogy may not be the only craziness in his life at the moment.

But he is lurking at the forum (Jean M, df.reynolds, Mikewww, Mike Forsyth). I think he will write again, of course.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on November 15, 2012, 08:35:47 PM
I think Mike has sons still active in athletics at the University of Texas at Austin, and it's football season -- so genetic genealogy may not be the only craziness in his life at the moment.

But he is lurking at the forum (Jean M, df.reynolds, Mikewww, Mike Forsyth). I think he will write again, of course.

I hope you're right. He's a big reason I come here.

I can't do the Yahoo thing, though. I just don't like the format.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on November 16, 2012, 01:18:17 AM
I hope you're right. He's a big reason I come here.
I can't do the Yahoo thing, though. I just don't like the format.

305 Guests, 16 Users Users active in past 180 minutes:
Maliclavelli, Humanist, Mark Jost, Mikewww, eochaidh, filberuthie, channon, tcfitzgerald, RickA, inver2b1, razyn, Jason Bourgeois, Mike23, 1357Peter, Richard Rocca, ArmandoR1b

He is here again, and he should know that he was treated better than me (he wasn’t banned or suspended) but he too shall know that some arguments are taboo. I do all my battles on 23andMe, where I am more free. Someone asked my banishment, but probably there the situation is different. You Rich gave some good suggestion to me. Give it also to Mike, and he will write again and this is what we all desire.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on November 16, 2012, 02:41:28 AM
Ciao, my sample geno 2.0 finally arrived in Houston.
Had been sent, by registered mail from Italy, Oct. 25.
Had been shipped to USA October 29 and received by the laboratory NatGeo last November 15.
Better late than never!
I hope soon to be able to compare the data with other L20 + project as Gilbert U152.
We look forward to.
Giuseppe.

Today 17 November...i read..
Kit status 40%
"Your DNA Has Been Isolated"

Hurrah...!


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: OConnor on November 16, 2012, 09:59:52 AM
I hope you're right. He's a big reason I come here.
I can't do the Yahoo thing, though. I just don't like the format.

305 Guests, 16 Users Users active in past 180 minutes:
Maliclavelli, Humanist, Mark Jost, Mikewww, eochaidh, filberuthie, channon, tcfitzgerald, RickA, inver2b1, razyn, Jason Bourgeois, Mike23, 1357Peter, Richard Rocca, ArmandoR1b

He is here again, and he should know that he was treated better than me (he wasn’t banned or suspended) but he too shall know that some arguments are taboo. I do all my battles on 23andMe, where I am more free. Someone asked my banishment, but probably there the situation is different. You Rich gave some good suggestion to me. Give it also to Mike, and he will write again and this is what we all desire.


Treated better than me also. I was banned for a week with threat of permanent bandishment. This right after I sent a message requesting removal of my entry in a worldfamily surname project. I do not believe everyone is treated equally here. Some are untouchable in my view.

Aside from that,|I am waiting in the wings to see what can be learned from Geno 2 results, before I spend the money on testing.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 16, 2012, 03:30:55 PM
I would highly recommend that everyone read Roberta Esres blog on the FTDNA conference.
It is well written, compelling and funny.
Highlights include Spencer Wells update on Geno 2.0, Thomas Krahn, Michael Hammer and Bonnie Schrack made an amazing discovery on the base A Haplogroup with huge implications for the age and origin of mankind and an interesting presentation from Dr. Tyrone Bowes on finding an Irish or Scottish ancestors location based on recurring family names. The quality of all the presentations was very high. Roberta, CeCe Moore, Emily Aulicino, and Katherine Bourges provided a constant Twitter feed from the conference on #ftdna2012 which allowed me to follow it live from Munich.

http://dna-explained.com/


Roberta has continued her excellent blog on the FTDNA conference with a detailed discussion on the new root haplogroup A00. Fascinating stuff. Well worth a read.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/11/16/the-new-root-haplogroup-a00/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 17, 2012, 11:00:24 AM
I would highly recommend that everyone read Roberta Esres blog on the FTDNA conference.
It is well written, compelling and funny.
Highlights include Spencer Wells update on Geno 2.0, Thomas Krahn, Michael Hammer and Bonnie Schrack made an amazing discovery on the base A Haplogroup with huge implications for the age and origin of mankind and an interesting presentation from Dr. Tyrone Bowes on finding an Irish or Scottish ancestors location based on recurring family names. The quality of all the presentations was very high. Roberta, CeCe Moore, Emily Aulicino, and Katherine Bourges provided a constant Twitter feed from the conference on #ftdna2012 which allowed me to follow it live from Munich.

http://dna-explained.com/


Roberta has continued her excellent blog on the FTDNA conference with a detailed discussion on the new root haplogroup A00. Fascinating stuff. Well worth a read.

http://dna-explained.com/2012/11/16/the-new-root-haplogroup-a00/


Emily Aulticino has given additional details on the FTDNA conference on her Genealem blog including two new tests from DNADTC, FTDNAs sister division. The DNADTC division is the first commercial company to offer a full genome sequence test!  The price is $5495, but we know that will be lower in a few years.  For the Exome, your 20,000 genes, the cost is $695. She gives updates on Spencer Wells presentation of Geno 2.0 and gives good coverage of the history making A00 haplogroup.

http://genealem-geneticgenealogy.blogspot.de/



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: razyn on November 21, 2012, 05:54:09 PM
Rumor has it that somebody in a U106 group got GenoChip results today.

Edit:  actually somebody reported to a U-106 Yahoo group that somebody mentioned on a 23andMe forum that results had arrived.  Turns out, it was a woman -- so no Y-DNA result was reported there, yet.  But anyway, someone has received GenoChip results...


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: ArmandoR1b on November 21, 2012, 05:57:48 PM
Well, the process took a lot shorter than I expected - in the last 24 hours, my status has been changed to 80% Complete. My kit is now in the Quality Control stage. I suspect the kit may have been previously sequenced and the status updated only after Spencer Wells gave his presentation on Geno 2.0. Either way, I will report the results, and more importantly the format as soon as I get them.
How long did it take for it to go from Stage 1 Sample Received to Stage 3 DNA Analysis? They reported receiving my sample Oct 30. Now 10 days later on Nov 9 it is at Stage 2 DNA ISOLATION.

Stage 1: 10/16/2012
Stage 2: 11/07/2012
Stage 3: 11/08/2012
Stage 4: 11/09/2012

Thanks. It looks like mine should be Stage 4 soon then.
Well, mine is barely at Stage 3 DNA Analysis "This process typically takes around six to ten days."

Stage 1: 10/30/2012
Stage 2: 11/09/2012
Stage 3: 11/21/2012


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on November 21, 2012, 06:41:29 PM
I'm at Stage 4 (60%) Quality Control. I was at Stage 3 (40%) DNA Analysis for exactly two weeks.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 21, 2012, 08:04:33 PM
There are mumblings on various forums about results beginning to be posted.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 21, 2012, 08:10:50 PM
... and here's a first look of results for a female participant courtesy of CeCe Moore:

http://tinyurl.com/bok6pfo


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on November 21, 2012, 09:56:52 PM
... and here's a first look of results for a female participant courtesy of CeCe Moore:

http://tinyurl.com/bok6pfo

How in the world did they give her German as her first Reference Population match and Greek as her second Population match when she is quite OBVIOUSLY closer to Greek?!

Wow! I hope they don't do that with me!


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: ArmandoR1b on November 21, 2012, 11:10:59 PM
... and here's a first look of results for a female participant courtesy of CeCe Moore:

http://tinyurl.com/bok6pfo

It's a lot like the results of Dienekes Dodecad calculators or Doug McDonald's analysis without having to know how to use the Dodecad calculator or have Doug analyze it. Therefore, Geno 2.0 results are good for the people that don't know how to get that done. Plus, it's cheaper than FTDNA, other than sales, and 23andme. It's also better than Ancestry.com since they don't even provide reference population data or provide raw data for download.

On another point, since the majority of us are of mixed ancestry it should be left up to the individual to attempt to determine why they match certain populations and not be told they match a certain reference population regardless of the fact that they notify the participant that it doesn't mean they belong to those groups or are directly from those regions. If they are not from those populations or don't have ancestry from the locations there is absolutely no reason to mention that their final results match them.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on November 21, 2012, 11:22:28 PM
No one could look at this woman's results and choose German over Greek. No one. Absolutely astonishing.

Hopefully, this woman knows her ancestry, or has a pretty good idea of it. If not, she has been completely mislead even with a disclaimer.

They can't make this obvious mistake often without changing something. Perhaps they could go outside the building and grab someone off the street, show them the results, and have them make the obvious choice.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Forsythe on November 22, 2012, 07:46:44 AM
I was  about to order Gen 2.0 ..I think I'll wait to see some more results..


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 22, 2012, 11:18:33 AM
The screen shots posted by CeCe and AuntSha are quiet interesting.
I have asked them if their maternal haplogroup has improved eg. U4 to U4a.
I am interesting in seeing what the effect will be on Paternal Haplogroups. I would ask others who receive their results to post their Haplogroup assignments here and indicate any change from their current Haplogroup assignment.
I was dismayed to see that the raw data appears to contain a mish mash of different standards, some I recognised IMS-... which are on the ISOGG Tree and others 101SNP..... I have never seen before. This does not help interoperability between the testing companies.
I would also like to see a seperate reference population for Ireland as it can be quite different from the  UK profile.
Ireland is a interesting case study and benchmark as it has some of the the highest frequency for several haplogroups important in the peopling of Europe (in particular Celtic migrations) including R1b-M269, L51, L11, P312, L21 and M222.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Forsythe on November 22, 2012, 11:51:05 AM
I would also like to see a seperate reference population for Ireland

It would be nice to include West Scotland, as well as the Highlands to this reference.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Paul Burns on November 22, 2012, 11:58:56 AM
NG informs me that I am H41a.. I don't really follow the mtDNA although I have been tested both by 23andMe and FTDNA, so I don't know what that means. Blank so far on the Y-DNA
Paul Burns


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 22, 2012, 02:22:22 PM
I checked my L21 line and found the following SNPs below L21 and DF21

GRC12123316   DF19   Y
GRC12123316   DF21   Y
GRC12123316   DF23   Y
GRC12123316   DF25   Y
GRC12123316   DF5   Y

DF5 is four levels below L21.
L21 > DF13 > DF21 > DF25 > DF5
This is a good level of granualarity.
Strange I could not find DF13.
There may be others which I did not spot.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Autochthon on November 22, 2012, 04:04:17 PM
I checked my L21 line and found the following SNPs below L21 and DF21

Strange I could not find DF13.
There may be others which I did not spot.

I don't think DF13 was around when Geno 2.0 was formulated  (November 2011)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on November 22, 2012, 06:43:42 PM
It appears a couple of large R1b clades do not appear in the SNP list:

P312
L48 (under U106)

It may well be the Y SNP list is not 100% complete, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 22, 2012, 07:24:13 PM
I was dismayed to see that the raw data appears to contain a mish mash of different standards, some I recognised IMS-... which are on the ISOGG Tree and others 101SNP..... I have never seen before. This does not help interoperability between the testing companies.

Yes, but that's how these "shorthand" or "tree" names are created. The discovering lab/organization names them independently. There's no formal overarching standards organization for this emerging industry, although they could certainly do with one.

The ISOGG tree would certainly be messy with names like 105SNP16284RA_G pasted throughout it, but I gather those are autosomal SNPs.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 23, 2012, 08:44:08 AM
Below is a more detailed coverage of DF21, my terminal SNP, courtesy of David Reynolds.
The depth is fine as it includes DF5 which is four levels below L21. The main gap appears to be the "S" Series. Does this mean that certain labs are not releasing their data and are therefore not included in Geno 2.0 or did they not make the November 2011 cutoff date?

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764261989/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on November 23, 2012, 09:29:48 AM
Below is a more detailed coverage of DF21, my terminal SNP, courtesy of David Reynolds.
The depth is fine as it includes DF5 which is four levels below L21. The main gap appears to be the "S" Series. Does this mean that certain labs are not releasing their data and are therefore not included in Geno 2.0 or did they not make the November 2011 cutoff date?

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764261989/


Sounds like DF21 fared pretty well in the Geno 2.0 because it was discovered early enough to make the cut off.

For many of the rest of us, however, Geno 2.0 looks like a big dud.

Some current DF13+ guys might invest in it as a more extensive and slightly more expensive Deep Clade, with some added mtDNA and autosomal benefits. It's probably not too bad a deal for that.





Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on November 23, 2012, 10:57:46 AM
...
The main gap appears to be the "S" Series. Does this mean that certain labs are not releasing their data and are therefore not included in Geno 2.0 or did they not make the November 2011 cutoff date?

The S series SNPs are from Jim Wilson (formerly EthnoAncestry, now ScotlandDNA, BritainDNA, etc.) Unfortunately, he does not publish the locations or primers for his SNPs, so it is impossible to include them in the GenoChip (or any other product, for that matter)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 23, 2012, 11:53:44 AM
Below is a more detailed coverage of DF21, my terminal SNP, courtesy of David Reynolds.
The depth is fine as it includes DF5 which is four levels below L21. The main gap appears to be the "S" Series. Does this mean that certain labs are not releasing their data and are therefore not included in Geno 2.0 or did they not make the November 2011 cutoff date?

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764261989/


Sounds like DF21 fared pretty well in the Geno 2.0 because it was discovered early enough to make the cut off.

For many of the rest of us, however, Geno 2.0 looks like a big dud.

Some current DF13+ guys might invest in it as a more extensive and slightly more expensive Deep Clade, with some added mtDNA and autosomal benefits. It's probably not too bad a deal for that.





I did a quick analysis of the coverage of P312. It is not a pretty sight. There is far more orange than green.
I would estimate <50% of SNPs downstream of P312 are in the Geno 2.0 raw data file.
Glaring omissions are P312, DF27, DF13, as well as M269 upstream.
DF21 and U152 have good coverage, the rest have big gaps.
I counted 11,542 Y SNPs. I only hope that some of these compensate for the apparent gaps in P312.
I believe it will take at least until the end of January to update the ISOGG Tree.
Bottom line, I am not impressed.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764263546/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on November 23, 2012, 03:03:46 PM

Sounds like DF21 fared pretty well in the Geno 2.0 because it was discovered early enough to make the cut off.

For many of the rest of us, however, Geno 2.0 looks like a big dud.

Some current DF13+ guys might invest in it as a more extensive and slightly more expensive Deep Clade, with some added mtDNA and autosomal benefits. It's probably not too bad a deal for that.


Well, for me I think Geno 2.0 is a boon because there will be tens of thousands of people getting tested for L583 (and maybe even a few positives), whereas before the only testers, for the most part, were the ones that I personally encouraged to test.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on November 23, 2012, 03:09:04 PM

Sounds like DF21 fared pretty well in the Geno 2.0 because it was discovered early enough to make the cut off.

For many of the rest of us, however, Geno 2.0 looks like a big dud.

Some current DF13+ guys might invest in it as a more extensive and slightly more expensive Deep Clade, with some added mtDNA and autosomal benefits. It's probably not too bad a deal for that.


Well, for me I think Geno 2.0 is a boon because there will be tens of thousands of people getting tested for L583 (and maybe even a few positives), whereas before the only testers, for the most part, were the ones that I personally encouraged to test.

That is a good thing, and Geno 2.0 should also add a lot of new L21+ guys to our growing army of ultimate world domination. ;-)

I don't see any reason for me to order it, however.

I am tossing over in mind whether it might not be a good thing for my dad, however. Too bad my one remaining maternal uncle passed away a couple of years ago. It would have been a great test for him.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: breckenheimer on November 23, 2012, 05:30:00 PM
Besides the known Z, U, DF and L Y-SNPs in Geno 2.0, does anyone know what the CTS, F, PF, and YSC SNPs are?  Are they mt, X, Autosomal, or Y?  The name given seems to suggest they are Y, so perhaps some would be unknown and their placement in the tree to be discovered.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8yel8ddsq5o3rl/Geno-Y-SNPs.txt


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on November 23, 2012, 05:41:55 PM
Besides the known Z, U, DF and L Y-SNPs in Geno 2.0, does anyone know what the CTS, F, PF, and YSC SNPs are?  Are they mt, X, Autosomal, or Y?  The name given seems to suggest they are Y, so perhaps some would be unknown and their placement in the tree to be discovered.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8yel8ddsq5o3rl/Geno-Y-SNPs.txt

CTS undoubtedly stands for Chris Tyler Smith. He has worked with Spencer Wells on identifying more SNPs from the 1000 Genome data. It is believed he had access to the DNA, rather than simply access to the results, so he was able to verify many more SNPs than previously discovered (in the Z & DF categories).

YSC SNPs had been listed in Thomas Krahn's yMap program, and I believe it stands for Y SNP Candidate. It appears he was investigating potential SNPs.



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 24, 2012, 02:22:56 AM
Besides the known Z, U, DF and L Y-SNPs in Geno 2.0, does anyone know what the CTS, F, PF, and YSC SNPs are?  Are they mt, X, Autosomal, or Y?  The name given seems to suggest they are Y, so perhaps some would be unknown and their placement in the tree to be discovered.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8yel8ddsq5o3rl/Geno-Y-SNPs.txt

PF are believed to be the initials of Paolo Francalacci, the guy who provided Sardinian SNPs.

F is believed to be for Fudan University, Shanghai, from where Prof. Li Jin supplied East Asian SNPs.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on November 24, 2012, 02:42:00 AM
Below is a more detailed coverage of DF21, my terminal SNP, courtesy of David Reynolds.
The depth is fine as it includes DF5 which is four levels below L21. The main gap appears to be the "S" Series. Does this mean that certain labs are not releasing their data and are therefore not included in Geno 2.0 or did they not make the November 2011 cutoff date?

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764261989/


Sounds like DF21 fared pretty well in the Geno 2.0 because it was discovered early enough to make the cut off.

For many of the rest of us, however, Geno 2.0 looks like a big dud.

Some current DF13+ guys might invest in it as a more extensive and slightly more expensive Deep Clade, with some added mtDNA and autosomal benefits. It's probably not too bad a deal for that.





I did a quick analysis of the coverage of P312. It is not a pretty sight. There is far more orange than green.
I would estimate <50% of SNPs downstream of P312 are in the Geno 2.0 raw data file.
Glaring omissions are P312, DF27, DF13, as well as M269 upstream.
DF21 and U152 have good coverage, the rest have big gaps.
I counted 11,542 Y SNPs. I only hope that some of these compensate for the apparent gaps in P312.
I believe it will take at least until the end of January to update the ISOGG Tree.
Bottom line, I am not impressed.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764263546/

There are indeed some very strange omissions, including L48.

We don't yet know where the CTS series SNPs (mined from the 1K Genome Project) sit on the tree, so there may yet be a new bonanza for R1b among those.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on November 24, 2012, 09:51:58 AM
Below is a more detailed coverage of DF21, my terminal SNP, courtesy of David Reynolds.
The depth is fine as it includes DF5 which is four levels below L21. The main gap appears to be the "S" Series. Does this mean that certain labs are not releasing their data and are therefore not included in Geno 2.0 or did they not make the November 2011 cutoff date?

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764261989/


Sounds like DF21 fared pretty well in the Geno 2.0 because it was discovered early enough to make the cut off.

For many of the rest of us, however, Geno 2.0 looks like a big dud.

Some current DF13+ guys might invest in it as a more extensive and slightly more expensive Deep Clade, with some added mtDNA and autosomal benefits. It's probably not too bad a deal for that.





I did a quick analysis of the coverage of P312. It is not a pretty sight. There is far more orange than green.
I would estimate <50% of SNPs downstream of P312 are in the Geno 2.0 raw data file.
Glaring omissions are P312, DF27, DF13, as well as M269 upstream.
DF21 and U152 have good coverage, the rest have big gaps.
I counted 11,542 Y SNPs. I only hope that some of these compensate for the apparent gaps in P312.
I believe it will take at least until the end of January to update the ISOGG Tree.
Bottom line, I am not impressed.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764263546/

There are indeed some very strange omissions, including L48.

We don't yet know where the CTS series SNPs (mined from the 1K Genome Project) sit on the tree, so there may yet be a new bonanza for R1b among those.

So, is it possible that some of those CTS SNPs are just L48, DF41, DF49, etc., by another name?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on November 24, 2012, 10:46:23 AM
So, is it possible that some of those CTS SNPs are just L48, DF41, DF49, etc., by another name?

It may be possible that some of the CTS SNPs are SYNONYMOUS with the SNPs left off of the chip, but I would strongly doubt they are identical. Even if Tyler-Smith accidentally created a new CTS SNP name for one of these SNPs, I would expect Thomas Krahn (who was in charge of the Y-SNPs on the GenoChip) would have quickly discovered the error.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on November 24, 2012, 05:02:08 PM
So, is it possible that some of those CTS SNPs are just L48, DF41, DF49, etc., by another name?

It may be possible that some of the CTS SNPs are SYNONYMOUS with the SNPs left off of the chip, but I would strongly doubt they are identical. Even if Tyler-Smith accidentally created a new CTS SNP name for one of these SNPs, I would expect Thomas Krahn (who was in charge of the Y-SNPs on the GenoChip) would have quickly discovered the error.

Ah, well, that's a let down.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on November 27, 2012, 05:06:36 AM
PF are believed to be the initials of Paolo Francalacci, the guy who provided Sardinian SNPs.

I can confirm for certain, by a letter he wrote to a common friend, that PF is Paolo Francalacci.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on November 27, 2012, 07:47:54 AM
I have updated the Geno 2.0 coverage of P312 and its defining mutations back to R1b.
This would give an idea of the R1b Neolithic expansion described in Wei et al paper.
The P312 component would represent the Bell Beaker expansion described in the Patterson et al paper.
(I am assuming that P312 or possibly L11 is associated with the Bell Beakers).
Tyler Smith states "In all, we provide a nearly 10-fold increase in the number of Y markers with phylogenetic information, and novel historical insights derived from placing them on a calibrated phylogenetic tree."
 If this is correct and reflected in the Geno 2.0 test, then we are in for a treat for the holiday period when we should have a large number of Y results and my diagram will change dramatically.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764284539/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Solothurn on December 01, 2012, 08:22:50 AM
Are there any Y SNPs tested on the GenoChip that the 23andMe V3 chip also has? I mean any terminal SNP that 23andMe haven't previously reported that Geno now do!

Hope that makes sense!


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on December 01, 2012, 09:03:56 AM
Are there any Y SNPs tested on the GenoChip that the 23andMe V3 chip also has? I mean any terminal SNP that 23andMe haven't previously reported that Geno now do!

Hope that makes sense!

Good question, but I don't know how we can tell at the moment.

The 23andMe data contains chromosome position details whereas the Geno 2 data that I've seen so far doesn't. That makes matching one with the other a tad difficult!

Maybe we'll get fuller info on the Geno 2 SNP set in due course.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Solothurn on December 01, 2012, 09:40:34 AM
Thanks gtc

On CeCe's site there is:

"Dr. Tim Janzen, 23andMe Ancestry Ambassador and ISOGG Y-SNP Tree Committee Member, is currently working on creating a file that will include the SNP positions for all of the SNPs on the GenoChip that are also found on the 23andMe v3 chip. I will add the link here when it is completed (probably tomorrow)."

As you say in due course!


[/quote]

Good question, but I don't know how we can tell at the moment.

The 23andMe data contains chromosome position details whereas the Geno 2 data that I've seen so far doesn't. That makes matching one with the other a tad difficult!

Maybe we'll get fuller info on the Geno 2 SNP set in due course.
[/quote]


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on December 01, 2012, 01:55:03 PM
This was posted on 23andme:

"Here are some example analysis groups that will be helping to analyze the Geno 2.0results.

The R1b-L21 area is represented by
http://daver.info/geno/

The R1b-U152 area effort will occur here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ago12PDVxPwwdGVOQWNuSlZad3gycHJOZFloeE85b2c#gid=0


The R1b-U106 area (including the royal Wettin lineage)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av9lu-SZDcLodFR1Ump6a0lCTmlqUTNjd3Jwd2VIbUE#gid=0"

I will focus my efforts on the defining mutations from M269 -> DF21 and peripheral SNPs, in an attempt to get some insights into Celtic Migrations and in particular the Gaelic Clan expansion. I guess there will be several iterations depending on the roadmap of the Geno 2.0 chip and depth of new SNPs discovered.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764284539/




Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: DavidCar on December 01, 2012, 09:35:49 PM
Is anyone collecting and comparing kits in DF27?  I expect to get results from a cousin's kit in L176.2/Z262 in a month or so, and I want to compare his kit with a few others in that region.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on December 02, 2012, 08:31:56 AM
Word from Charles Moore, an ISOGG Y-tree committee member and an R1b project admin, is that male Geno 2 tests will be delayed for another 1 to 2 weeks, because:

"[NG and FTDNA] are being continually surprised, particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree. Yeeha!

The large number of tests of a large number of SNPs are apparently revolutionizing the Y tree. Even some major classification levels, potentially affecting some long-known ancestral naming conventions such as "R1b" could potentially be at risk of being changed by the layering taking place."

and

"Although I was told to expect the results in one to two weeks, the publication
of the new tree itself is another matter. Spencer [Wells] and Bennett [Greenspan] decided to further delay the publication of the new tree for the simple reason of the fact that it is changing too rapidly as a result of all the tests they are running."


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mark Jost on December 02, 2012, 12:33:35 PM
Maybe the SNPs such as L459 have been further defined.

MJost


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: brunetmj on December 02, 2012, 02:17:44 PM
Quote
particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree.
What does layering out the tree mean exactly? Sorry I am just learning..


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Maliclavelli on December 02, 2012, 02:56:44 PM
"[NG and FTDNA] are being continually surprised, particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree. Yeeha!

Hope good news for me.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: ArmandoR1b on December 02, 2012, 03:10:13 PM
Word from Charles Moore, an ISOGG Y-tree committee member and an R1b project admin, is that male Geno 2 tests will be delayed for another 1 to 2 weeks, because:

"[NG and FTDNA] are being continually surprised, particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree. Yeeha!

The large number of tests of a large number of SNPs are apparently revolutionizing the Y tree. Even some major classification levels, potentially affecting some long-known ancestral naming conventions such as "R1b" could potentially be at risk of being changed by the layering taking place."

What does layering out the tree mean exactly? Sorry I am just learning..

He is saying that some of the SNPs that were though to be of at the same level are actually of different levels. I am very interested in seeing the results and especially how they affect R1b, if they do.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on December 02, 2012, 03:14:04 PM
Quote
particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree.
What does layering out the tree mean exactly? Sorry I am just learning..

@Brunetmj

As per my post above, according to the Wei et al paper and Chris Tyler Smith  discovered a 10 fold increase in new SNPs in their work and especially an extreme expansion of R1b associated with the Neolithic. As we know that the majority of New SNPs relevant to R1b will carry the CTS prefix this will have the effect of creating several new layers on the existing tree. Some SNPs which today are known by several names will now become separate discrete new SNPs and several terminal SNPs eg M222 will get (four) new SNPs downstream. The effect will be that the tree will become bushier and wider.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on December 02, 2012, 05:02:21 PM
"[NG and FTDNA] are being continually surprised, particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree. Yeeha!

I wonder how many completed Y-DNA SNP results are stacked up awaiting whatever layering is being attempted (hundreds?? thousands??). Also, whether once they get their act together if they are going to give people whose DNA was used to test the chip an access code.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Peter M on December 02, 2012, 09:27:04 PM
Word from Charles Moore, an ISOGG Y-tree committee member and an R1b project admin, is that male Geno 2 tests will be delayed for another 1 to 2 weeks, because:

"[NG and FTDNA] are being continually surprised, particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree. Yeeha!

The large number of tests of a large number of SNPs are apparently revolutionizing the Y tree. Even some major classification levels, potentially affecting some long-known ancestral naming conventions such as "R1b" could potentially be at risk of being changed by the layering taking place."

and

"Although I was told to expect the results in one to two weeks, the publication
of the new tree itself is another matter. Spencer [Wells] and Bennett [Greenspan] decided to further delay the publication of the new tree for the simple reason of the fact that it is changing too rapidly as a result of all the tests they are running."

If Spencer W. and Bennett G. have postponed publishing the (a ?) new Y-Tree for an unspecified amount of time, then why on earth would that be a reason for postponing publishing the test results of a fixed group of people (who, btw, paid for their test) for a fixed set of SNPs for (at least) one or two weeks ?? Something doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on December 02, 2012, 10:01:38 PM
Word from Charles Moore, an ISOGG Y-tree committee member and an R1b project admin, is that male Geno 2 tests will be delayed for another 1 to 2 weeks, because:

"[NG and FTDNA] are being continually surprised, particularly in Haplogroups I, J, and R, that SNPs previously thought to be multiple SNPs defining the same subclade levels, are in fact actually layering out the tree. Yeeha!

The large number of tests of a large number of SNPs are apparently revolutionizing the Y tree. Even some major classification levels, potentially affecting some long-known ancestral naming conventions such as "R1b" could potentially be at risk of being changed by the layering taking place."

and

"Although I was told to expect the results in one to two weeks, the publication
of the new tree itself is another matter. Spencer [Wells] and Bennett [Greenspan] decided to further delay the publication of the new tree for the simple reason of the fact that it is changing too rapidly as a result of all the tests they are running."

If Spencer W. and Bennett G. have postponed publishing the (a ?) new Y-Tree for an unspecified amount of time, then why on earth would that be a reason for postponing publishing the test results of a fixed group of people (who, btw, paid for their test) for a fixed set of SNPs for (at least) one or two weeks ?? Something doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me.


I agree with your sentiment regarding a paid service and how about delivering the goods but I guess they feel that they first need to update the Geno 2 FAQ in relation to the impact the results are having on the new Y-tree ahead of a predictable tsunami of questions in that regard.

And, on an closely-associated matter, Spencer Wells' paper on all of this is due (some might say overdue). Perhaps he wants to "stop the presses" so that he can make some changes.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: OConnor on December 02, 2012, 10:24:26 PM
I feel rather questionable about things. I must admit I am probably low-man on the totem pole of genetic knowledge. I am confident with the results from the unravellings of genetic snps done in this forum by our dedicated members. How can this Geno-2 change what has been established by our own reserch?..or am I way out of touch with reality..and what people are suggesting?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on December 03, 2012, 04:13:52 AM
..... How can this Geno-2 change what has been established by our own research?..

The Geno 2.0 chip has thousands of previously untested SNPs. This includes many SNPs from the 1000 Genome Project which were not previously explored, as well as SNPs from someone who has done full-genome testing on Sardinians, as well as results from China not previously explored.

Another big benefit of the GenoChip is that for the first time, many currently synonymous SNPs are being widely tested, with the result being in many cases a determination that these SNPs are NOT synonymous (ie finding folks positive for one SNP but negative for the other).


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Solothurn on December 03, 2012, 07:40:04 AM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8yel8ddsq5o3rl/Geno-Y-SNPs.txt

I don't know which are on the V3 chip though!


Thanks gtc

On CeCe's site there is:

"Dr. Tim Janzen, 23andMe Ancestry Ambassador and ISOGG Y-SNP Tree Committee Member, is currently working on creating a file that will include the SNP positions for all of the SNPs on the GenoChip that are also found on the 23andMe v3 chip. I will add the link here when it is completed (probably tomorrow)."

As you say in due course!



Good question, but I don't know how we can tell at the moment.

The 23andMe data contains chromosome position details whereas the Geno 2 data that I've seen so far doesn't. That makes matching one with the other a tad difficult!

Maybe we'll get fuller info on the Geno 2 SNP set in due course.
[/quote]
[/quote]


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: k.o.gran on December 03, 2012, 09:11:12 AM
..... How can this Geno-2 change what has been established by our own research?..
Another big benefit of the GenoChip is that for the first time, many currently synonymous SNPs are being widely tested, with the result being in many cases a determination that these SNPs are NOT synonymous (ie finding folks positive for one SNP but negative for the other).

I'm hoping that they are able to split L21, L459 and Z245. :-)

-Kai


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Jdean on December 03, 2012, 10:28:47 AM
..... How can this Geno-2 change what has been established by our own research?..
Another big benefit of the GenoChip is that for the first time, many currently synonymous SNPs are being widely tested, with the result being in many cases a determination that these SNPs are NOT synonymous (ie finding folks positive for one SNP but negative for the other).

I'm hoping that they are able to split L21, L459 and Z245. :-)

-Kai

Would be nice, but the last I heard neither L459 or Z245 were included.

I don't think Z260 & Z290 were on it either but a Z260 result has just been reported in WTY so FTDNA have a primer for that one at last, something else for the L21* guys to play around with ?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on December 10, 2012, 12:47:13 PM
Some Y-DNA results have started to show up with new SNPs listed. See below

http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=766


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: brunetmj on December 12, 2012, 04:20:05 PM
My L21 came in last night but I have no clue how to find the raw data. I am DF13 positive and negative for all known downstream SNP 's according to FTDNA.
The geno2 test just says L21 and I see no section to download the information.
I did see the transfer option to upload to FTDNA but it asks credit card questions so I hesitated since the price for such a transfer is not mentioned .


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: DavidCar on December 12, 2012, 04:23:57 PM
They're saying on U106 that you transfer by electing to pay by invoice, then you get an invoice for $0. 


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on December 18, 2012, 04:24:31 PM
The GenoChip: A New Tool for Genetic Anthropology

Note on figure S1 Richard Rocca and David Reynolds and other citizen scientists are acknowledged for their work on the Y Z/DF series. Well done guys.

"Figure S1. Sources of the Y chromosomal SNPs that have been included on the Illumina Bead Array. The total 15,733 Y markers resemble a merged collection of well-studied core markers (green) and a larger set of Y candidate SNPs (yellow). The pale yellow color indicates that no phylogenetic information has been reported by the authors."

" Overall, we collected and ascertained AIMs from over 450 populations. Containing an unprecedented number of Y-chromosomal and mtDNA SNPs and over 130,000 SNPs from the autosomes and X-chromosome, the chip was carefully vetted to avoid inclusion of medically relevant markers. The GenoChip results were successfully validated by genotyping more than 500 samples from the 1000 Genomes Project and private collections. "

"Our goals were to design, manufacture, validate, and test a state of the art SNP array dedicated solely to genetic anthropology and to genotype a large number of samples and populations to learn more about human history. The GenoChip is an Illumina HD iSelect genotyping bead array designed with over 130,000 highly informative autosomal and X-chromosomal markers, ~12,000 Y-chromosomal markers, and ~3,300 mtDNA markers. As AIMs are invaluable tools in population genetics and genetic anthropology for discerning subpopulations, we focused our efforts in collecting the most informative ones [29]. The autosomal and X-chromosomal marker sets comprised of over 75,000 AIMs were ascertained from over 450 worldwide populations, making it the largest and most detailed AIMs panel ever constructed (Figure 1). Half of our AIMs were culled from the literature and private data sets and the rest were calculated using infocalc [30] and AIMsFinder. We applied these two methods on global panels comprised of nearly 300 populations assembled from public and private data sets. Many of these populations are unique to our project and have never before studied or searched for AIMs."

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1212.4116v1.pdf

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/genographic/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Joseph David Lyttle on December 19, 2012, 10:49:54 AM
What is know of the transfer of Geno 2.0 to FTDNA? Will the results be incorporated and displayed on the tree as FTDNA currently does with the deep clade results?

Who has worked all the way through this process that might shed some light on what to expect - and costs to transfer???


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: wing_genealogist on December 19, 2012, 03:58:30 PM
What is know of the transfer of Geno 2.0 to FTDNA? Will the results be incorporated and displayed on the tree as FTDNA currently does with the deep clade results?

Who has worked all the way through this process that might shed some light on what to expect - and costs to transfer???

First of all, there is no cost to transfer your Geno 2.0 results to FTDNA. I believe they have fixed the transfer so it is clearer this is the case.

When you transfer your results, It will update your SNPs on both your personal Haplotree as well as SNP results showing on projects listing them. In both places only the POSITIVE SNP results will be transferred (as there are far too many negative results to list). However, these two places give DIFFERENT results.  Your haplotree only lists the SNPs currently available for purchase at FTDNA, while the Project SNP page lists all of the positive Geno SNPs.

FOR EXAMPLE: I have taken my individual results and posted below. This first result is from my Y-DNA Haplotree


Your Haplogroup    Tests Taken
R1b1a2a1a1a4   Z9+ Z8+ Z7+ Z6+ Z381+ Z30+ Z2+ Z1+ V9+ V205+ V189+ V186+ U106+ P310+ P297+ P295+ P286+ P285+ P284+ P283+ P282+ P281+ P280+ P245+ P244+ P243+ P242+ P240+ P238+ P237+ P236+ P235+ P233+ P232+ P230+ P229+ P228+ P226+ P207+ P187+ P166+ P160+ P159+ P158+ P151+ P148+ P146+ P145+ P141+ P14+ P138+ P136+ P135+ P132+ P131+ P128+ M94+ M89+ M526+ M45+ M42+ M294+ M207+ M168+ M139+ L82+ L768+ L721+ L585+ L58+ L566+ L52+ L51+ L506+ L502+ L500+ L498+ L483+ L482+ L48+ L478+ L471+ L470+ L468+ L407+ L389+ L350+ L278+ L23+ L16+ L151+ L150+ L15+ L132+ L11+ Z343- L180- L179- L148-


This second results is from the Project SNP page (in this case, the U106 Project)

CTS10168+, CTS10362+, CTS10834+, CTS109+, CTS11358+, CTS11468+, CTS11575+, CTS11726+, CTS11985+, CTS12478+, CTS125+, CTS12632+, CTS1996+, CTS2134+, CTS2664+, CTS3063+, CTS3135+, CTS3331+, CTS3358+, CTS3431+, CTS3536+, CTS3575+, CTS3654+, CTS3662+, CTS3868+, CTS3996+, CTS4244+, CTS4364+, CTS4368+, CTS4437+, CTS4443+, CTS4740+, CTS5318+, CTS5457+, CTS5532+, CTS5577+, CTS5884+, CTS6135+, CTS623+, CTS6383+, CTS6800+, CTS6907+, CTS7400+, CTS7659+, CTS7922+, CTS7933+, CTS8243+, CTS8591+, CTS8665+, CTS8728+, CTS8980+, CTS9828+, F1046+, F115+, F1209+, F1302+, F1320+, F1329+, F1704+, F1714+, F1753+, F1767+, F1794+, F180+, F2048+, F2075+, F211+, F212+, F2142+, F2155+, F2402+, F2587+, F2688+, F2710+, F2837+, F29+, F295+, F2985+, F2993+, F3111+, F313+, F3136+, F33+, F332+, F3335+, F344+, F3556+, F356+, F359+, F3692+, F378+, F4+, F47+, F506+, F556+, F63+, F640+, F647+, F652+, F671+, F719+, F82+, F83+, F93+, L11+, L132+, L148-, L15+, L150+, L151+, L16+, L179-, L180-, L23+, L265+, L278+, L350+, L388+, L389+, L407+, L468+, L470+, L471+, L478+, L48+, L482+, L483+, L498+, L500+, L502+, L506+, L51+, L52+, L566+, L58+, L585+, L721+, L747+, L752+, L754+, L761+, L768+, L773+, L774+, L779+, L781+, L82+, M139+, M168+, M207+, M235+, M294+, M415+, M42+, M45+, M526+, M89+, M94+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P14+, P141+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P151+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P225+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P232+, P233+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P240+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P295+, P297+, P310+, PAGES00083+, PF1016+, PF1029+, PF1031+, PF1040+, PF1046+, PF1061+, PF1092+, PF1097+, PF110+, PF1203+, PF1269+, PF1276+, PF15+, PF192+, PF210+, PF212+, PF223+, PF234+, PF258+, PF2591+, PF2593+, PF2599+, PF2600+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2624+, PF263+, PF2631+, PF2643+, PF272+, PF2745+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, PF278+, PF292+, PF316+, PF325+, PF342+, PF500+, PF5465+, PF5466+, PF5468+, PF5471+, PF5851+, PF5853+, PF5854+, PF5865+, PF5869+, PF5871+, PF5882+, PF5886+, PF5887+, PF5888+, PF5953+, PF5956+, PF5957+, PF5964+, PF5965+, PF5982+, PF6007+, PF601+, PF6063+, PF6091+, PF6145+, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6250+, PF6263+, PF6265+, PF6270+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6404+, PF6409+, PF6411+, PF6424+, PF6425+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6438+, PF6443+, PF6463+, PF6494+, PF6495+, PF6498+, PF6500+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6509+, PF6524+, PF667+, PF719+, PF720+, PF725+, PF779+, PF796+, PF803+, PF815+, PF821+, PF840+, PF844+, PF892+, PF937+, PF951+, PF954+, PF970+, s10+, s3+, U106+, V186+, V189+, V205+, V52+, V9+, YSC0000067+, YSC0000072+, YSC0000075+, YSC0000082+, YSC0000166+, YSC0000176+, YSC0000179+, YSC0000182+, YSC0000186+, YSC0000191+, YSC0000194+, YSC0000201+, YSC0000203+, YSC0000205+, YSC0000207+, YSC0000213+, YSC0000219+, YSC0000224+, YSC0000225+, YSC0000227+, YSC0000230+, YSC0000232+, YSC0000233+, YSC0000251+, YSC0000269+, YSC0000270+, YSC0000279+, YSC0000288+, YSC0000294+, Z1+, Z2+, Z20+, Z22+, Z23+, Z24+, Z25+, Z26+, Z28+, Z29+, Z30+, Z31+, Z343-, Z344+, Z348+, Z352+, Z381+, Z6+, Z7+, Z8+, Z9+


EDIT:  Please note, the negative SNP results are from prior testing, NOT the Geno test. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell what positive SNP results are from FTDNA testing.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Newragh on January 03, 2013, 08:26:08 PM
My kit just came back. It was ordered on Oct. 11 and I have sent it to David for the L21 sheet.

It seems that I am really Bulgarian even though this would probably surprise my eight great grandparents who were: Irish - 4, Italian - 2, Pennsylvania Dutch (German) - 1, Pennsylvania Quaker (English) - 1.

They arrived at this because I am: 40% Med, 39% N. Euro, 19% SW Asia and 2.5% Neanderthal.

Aside from this commercialism, they still list me as R-M222. I have the huge csv file, but cannot decipher it. Is there any way to make your own tree from all of that data?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: brunetmj on January 03, 2013, 09:16:05 PM
Wow you actually match me. Notice your N Euro and Med is close to mine 41 NE and 40 Med. it claims I am Danish. However if you check all the reference populations none fit this 50/50 split like yours and mine.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on January 03, 2013, 10:26:50 PM
Ah, not so fast! I come out 41% North Euro, 40% Med, 17% Southwest Asian, and 2% Northeast Asian. I have 3 grandparents from Ireland, altough my maternal grandfather was Scots-Irish. My other grandparent was my maternal grandmother who was 100% French-Canadian. Most of her lines were from Normandy and Brittany, but she also has several lines from La Rochelle and her father's line was from Auvergne in the south central part of France.

I was listed as:

Y: R-DF23 (exactly correct)
mt: T2g (exactly correct)
1st match: Germany (not bad because of my 25% French)
2nd match: Tuscany (Romania was closer)

Out of all these test, Eurogenes EUtest is the closest at 75% English, 25% French and 23andMe's Ancestry Composition, which if you drop the non-specific and then use the remaining percentages, is 72% British/Irish, 17% Northern French/German, 7% Southern French/German (Iberian & Italian)* and 4% Scandinavian.

* A man from the Dauphine region of France (Southeast Alpine) shows fairly high Iberian and Italian along with his high French/German.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Newragh on January 03, 2013, 10:50:41 PM
I have 3 grandparents from Ireland, altough my maternal grandfather was Scots-Irish. My other grandparent was my maternal grandmother who was 100% French-Canadian.
I was unable to use my preferred screen name of Eochaidh here because it was already in use, so I chose Newragh which is a tiny townland in Louth where my gg-grandfather was born. I could not use it on the Geno site either, as Echoaidh was again in use, so I had to use Ua hEochadha there. I may have to use to use Ua hEochadha in the future as it seems that Eochaidh is everywhere before me.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on January 03, 2013, 11:04:59 PM
I have 3 grandparents from Ireland, altough my maternal grandfather was Scots-Irish. My other grandparent was my maternal grandmother who was 100% French-Canadian.
I was unable to use my preferred screen name of Eochaidh here because it was already in use, so I chose Newragh which is a tiny townland in Louth where my gg-grandfather was born. I could not use it on the Geno site either, as Echoaidh was again in use, so I had to use Ua hEochadha there. I may have to use to use Ua hEochadha in the future as it seems that Eochaidh is everywhere before me.

Sorry about that, but my surname is Kehoe, MacEochaidh/MacEochadha in Irish. My Dad was from Kilrush Parish in Co. Wexford. I also use "Kilrush98" at times. I've been on these forums since 2007.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Newragh on January 03, 2013, 11:55:52 PM
My surname is Kehoe, MacEochaidh/MacEochadha in Irish.
Is mise Hoy, Ó hEochaidh/Ua hEochadha in Irish.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on January 04, 2013, 12:07:38 AM
My surname is Kehoe, MacEochaidh/MacEochadha in Irish.
Is mise Hoy, Ó hEochaidh/Ua hEochadha in Irish.

Maith go leor. It was just a timing issue. To be honest, most of my matches are from the north of Ireland, so I may be from an O hEochaidh line that migrated south.

Aris, ta bron orm.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: ArmandoR1b on January 04, 2013, 05:13:06 AM
Ah, not so fast! I come out 41% North Euro, 40% Med, 17% Southwest Asian, and 2% Northeast Asian. I have 3 grandparents from Ireland, altough my maternal grandfather was Scots-Irish. My other grandparent was my maternal grandmother who was 100% French-Canadian. Most of her lines were from Normandy and Brittany, but she also has several lines from La Rochelle and her father's line was from Auvergne in the south central part of France.

I was listed as:

Y: R-DF23 (exactly correct)
mt: T2g (exactly correct)
1st match: Germany (not bad because of my 25% French)
2nd match: Tuscany (Romania was closer)

Out of all these test, Eurogenes EUtest is the closest at 75% English, 25% French and 23andMe's Ancestry Composition, which if you drop the non-specific and then use the remaining percentages, is 72% British/Irish, 17% Northern French/German, 7% Southern French/German (Iberian & Italian)* and 4% Scandinavian.

* A man from the Dauphine region of France (Southeast Alpine) shows fairly high Iberian and Italian along with his high French/German.


Thanks for sharing this information. It looks like for those that are most concerned with their ancestral composition that 23andme is the best. It is good to know how connected we are to other groups (Mediterranean and Asian) but it is also good to see that the ability to distinguish the modern ethnic groups within areas such as Europe. With the drop in price to $99 it seems it would have been better than doing the Geno 2.0 for my wife. It also seems to be a good tool to use alongside Family Finder, especially for people more mixed than yourself and for those that were adopted or don't know who one of their parents were.

Do you have any idea if the Mediterranean portion of the DNA of Iberians, or other people in the Mediterranean, is assigned to a specific ethnic group?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: eochaidh on January 04, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
Ah, not so fast! I come out 41% North Euro, 40% Med, 17% Southwest Asian, and 2% Northeast Asian. I have 3 grandparents from Ireland, altough my maternal grandfather was Scots-Irish. My other grandparent was my maternal grandmother who was 100% French-Canadian. Most of her lines were from Normandy and Brittany, but she also has several lines from La Rochelle and her father's line was from Auvergne in the south central part of France.

I was listed as:

Y: R-DF23 (exactly correct)
mt: T2g (exactly correct)
1st match: Germany (not bad because of my 25% French)
2nd match: Tuscany (Romania was closer)

Out of all these test, Eurogenes EUtest is the closest at 75% English, 25% French and 23andMe's Ancestry Composition, which if you drop the non-specific and then use the remaining percentages, is 72% British/Irish, 17% Northern French/German, 7% Southern French/German (Iberian & Italian)* and 4% Scandinavian.

* A man from the Dauphine region of France (Southeast Alpine) shows fairly high Iberian and Italian along with his high French/German.


Thanks for sharing this information. It looks like for those that are most concerned with their ancestral composition that 23andme is the best. It is good to know how connected we are to other groups (Mediterranean and Asian) but it is also good to see that the ability to distinguish the modern ethnic groups within areas such as Europe. With the drop in price to $99 it seems it would have been better than doing the Geno 2.0 for my wife. It also seems to be a good tool to use alongside Family Finder, especially for people more mixed than yourself and for those that were adopted or don't know who one of their parents were.

Do you have any idea if the Mediterranean portion of the DNA of Iberians, or other people in the Mediterranean, is assigned to a specific ethnic group?

Armando,

For Southern Europe (Med.) 23and Me's Ancestry Composition is made from the following Reference Populations:
Italy (2 test groups)
No. Italy
Tuscan
Spain (2 test groups)
Portugal
French Basque
Greece
Romania
Bulgaria
Sardinia.

Like I say, though, a Frenchman may show Iberian or Italian. The same might be true of any Alpine tester.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Newragh on January 05, 2013, 08:55:35 PM
My surname is Kehoe, MacEochaidh/MacEochadha in Irish.
Is mise Hoy, Ó hEochaidh/Ua hEochadha in Irish.
To be honest, most of my matches are from the north of Ireland, so I may be from an O hEochaidh line that mirated south.

Two of my closer matches (one is the closest at 3 of 67), are MacGough and Gough who originate from the Meath and Monaghan border areas with Louth, so this may be right.

From my readings, I have learned that there were strong connections with Osraige before the Normans.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on January 06, 2013, 05:07:07 AM
Finally, my kit has passed the stage of quality control and I am 80% ready.
I hope that soon will come the results ..
I do not think there will be sensational news .. as I was already result U152+ L2+ L20+ and M228+ also ..
But it will be interesting to compare the results with others in Ftdna project U152.

Greetings.

Giuseppe.










Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: seferhabahir on January 08, 2013, 05:25:53 PM
Does anyone know if it is possible to do an STR test on an existing Geno 2.0 DNA sample? Since the DNA is supposedly in the hands of FTDNA, if I transfer my cousin's results to a new account at FTDNA, would I be able to order an STR test after I did this? This would probably be easier than sending him a new test kit from FTDNA and asking him to send yet another cheek swab.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on January 08, 2013, 06:59:08 PM
Does anyone know if it is possible to do an STR test on an existing Geno 2.0 DNA sample? Since the DNA is supposedly in the hands of FTDNA, if I transfer my cousin's results to a new account at FTDNA, would I be able to order an STR test after I did this? This would probably be easier than sending him a new test kit from FTDNA and asking him to send yet another cheek swab.

Your question is probably best directed to FTDNA themselves.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on January 15, 2013, 05:35:44 PM

Ciao..
Today arrived my geno 2.0 results and i tranferred all  to Ftdna.
I am always L20+..

From Ftdna .. the SNP positive...

Your Haplogroup Tests Taken
R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a
Z384+ Z383+ Z367+ Z148+ V9+ V205+ V189+ V186+ U152+ P312+ P310+ P297+ P295+ P286+ P285+ P284+ P283+ P282+ P281+ P280+ P25+ P245+ P244+ P243+ P242+ P240+ P238+ P237+ P236+ P235+ P233+ P232+ P230+ P229+ P228+ P226+ P207+ P187+ P166+ P160+ P159+ P158+ P151+ P148+ P146+ P145+ P141+ P14+ P138+ P136+ P135+ P132+ P131+ P128+ M94+ M89+ M526+ M45+ M42+ M343+ M294+ M269+ M228.2+ M207+ M173+ M168+ M139+ L82+ L768+ L721+ L594+ L585+ L566+ L552+ L52+ L517+ L516+ L515+ L51+ L506+ L502+ L500+ L498+ L493+ L483+ L482+ L478+ L477+ L471+ L470+ L468+ L389+ L366+ L350+ L278+ L23+ L20+ L2+ L16+ L151+ L150+ L15+ L132+ L11+ Z291- U198- U106- SRY2627- P66- P107- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L4- L3-

Ciao
Giuseppe.-


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Jean-Pierre on January 15, 2013, 10:52:08 PM
According to your results, your last SNP is R-M228.2


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: 1790Noll on January 16, 2013, 02:23:57 AM
Yes i am M228.2 and it is private SNP.. only in Belgieri family branch..
Others Bolgeri or Belgeri are only L20+..
ciao.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on January 17, 2013, 05:03:44 AM
I'm starting to see people join the R-L21 Plus Project because of their Geno 2.0 results who do not have any STR markers. That's fine as long as they are L21+ or positive for one of the downstream SNPs. The big problem is that they are like ghosts when it comes to the project's public web site, because men without STRs don't show up.

They're hovering there in the project but are otherwise invisible.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Dubhthach on January 17, 2013, 05:30:59 AM
I'm starting to see people join the R-L21 Plus Project because of their Geno 2.0 results who do not have any STR markers. That's fine as long as they are L21+ or positive for one of the downstream SNPs. The big problem is that they are like ghosts when it comes to the project's public web site, because men without STRs don't show up.

They're hovering there in the project but are otherwise invisible.

We've seen a couple of these in Ireland project as well, only thing I could suggest is that when the next sale comes in to recommend that they order STR's, the old analogy of the STR's been the leaves on the tree (as oppose to SNP's been the branch) and only way to find close matches may help.

-Paul
(DF41+)


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Degredado on January 17, 2013, 07:45:58 PM
Well this is funny.

Last year, I got tested with Genebase, and the results showed I was S116/P312+ (L21-, U152-, Z196-).

I've recently got my Geno 2.0 results, which confirmed I am P310 (it doesn't test for P312 or U106), but here's the funny thing - my terminal SNP's are L493+/L477+, which, according to the ISOGG Y-SNP tree, are defining mutations of R1b1a2a1a1a3b2a1a1 - which falls under U106.

My question is: is it possible to be P312+, even with these SNP's, or did one of the 2 tests necessarily screw up? :S


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on January 17, 2013, 09:09:26 PM
Well this is funny.

Last year, I got tested with Genebase, and the results showed I was S116/P312+ (L21-, U152-, Z196-).

I've recently got my Geno 2.0 results, which confirmed I am P310 (it doesn't test for P312 or U106), but here's the funny thing - my terminal SNP's are L493+/L477+, which, according to the ISOGG Y-SNP tree, are defining mutations of R1b1a2a1a1a3b2a1a1 - which falls under U106.

My question is: is it possible to be P312+, even with these SNP's, or did one of the 2 tests necessarily screw up? :S

I'm guessing Genebase screwed up.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Degredado on January 17, 2013, 10:03:57 PM
Hmmm, I see that on the previous page of this thread, there's a guy who's U152+ and who also tested positive for L493 and L477. What the heck? How can that be?

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on January 18, 2013, 04:59:47 AM
Hmmm, I see that on the previous page of this thread, there's a guy who's U152+ and who also tested positive for L493 and L477. What the heck? How can that be?

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

It's possible that L493 and L477 have occurred in more than one haplogroup and perhaps are unstable or at least should be labeled L493.1, L493.2, etc.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: rms2 on January 21, 2013, 07:53:32 PM
I keep getting folks joining my projects without STR test results. They only have Geno 2.0 results and so won't show up on our Y-DNA Results pages.

I'm having to tell them what STRs are and asking them to order yet another test on top of their expensive Geno 2.0 test.

But I am going whole hog and recommending 111 markers.

Might as well.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: gtc on January 21, 2013, 10:44:11 PM
I keep getting folks joining my projects without STR test results. They only have Geno 2.0 results and so won't show up on our Y-DNA Results pages.

I'm having to tell them what STRs are and asking them to order yet another test on top of their expensive Geno 2.0 test.

But I am going whole hog and recommending 111 markers.

Might as well.

Yes, we test 111 markers as normal now (saves having to "gee" them up for further STR tests) and then suggest individual SNPs depending on how they cluster.

I'm not yet convinced of the value of Geno 2. I think I'd prefer a "deeper" deep clade.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on January 22, 2013, 11:58:12 PM
I keep getting folks joining my projects without STR test results. They only have Geno 2.0 results and so won't show up on our Y-DNA Results pages.

I'm having to tell them what STRs are and asking them to order yet another test on top of their expensive Geno 2.0 test.

But I am going whole hog and recommending 111 markers.

Might as well.

Yes, we test 111 markers as normal now (saves having to "gee" them up for further STR tests) and then suggest individual SNPs depending on how they cluster.

I'm not yet convinced of the value of Geno 2. I think I'd prefer a "deeper" deep clade.

Some 111 marker results from the December sale are now coming in.

I agree that the 111 markers is going to be a great thing. I've got several examples now where they've told a different story than at 67 markers. One in particular for an L513+ L706.2- Connell who I would have pretty heavily bet as being L706.2+.  In fact, i thought his L706.2- was an error. Now that he has 111 markers, we can see the L706.2- reading looks right on. It just seems weird, that you could match on six fairly slow off-modal markers at 67 STRs and be GDs of 7 through 10, but be off as much as 20 additional steps on the last 44 markers (68-111) and still be under L513+.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on February 21, 2013, 04:00:19 PM
Here are my Geno 2.0 results.

46% Northern European
35% Meditteranean
18% Southwest Asian

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/genographic/

These are very g-eneric and reflect ancient admixture between Hunter Gather, Neolithic and Bronze Age settlers. Like 23andme they have a long way to go in getting more detail of regional populations. I can get far better definition by combining analysis from Geno 2.0, AC, RF and HTMM.

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/23andme/


I believe Paternal and Maternal Haplogroups and their matching frequency can tell us a very interesting story about my deep ancestry of Ireland but also can give clues to my more recent ancestors migratory experience.

I do not believe the power of this analysis is used to the full extent by 23andme, FTDNA or by Geno 2.0 for that matter.

First it is interesting to see what the latest research says about our ancestors migrations. In my case I use the latest data from J.P.Mallorys book "The Origin of the Irish". It tells the following story.

Table 8.1 mtDNA of Modern Irish Population

H 39%
U 13%
K 11%
J 10%
V 4%
T 2%
X 2%

Table 8.2 Subgroups of mtDNA haplogroup H

H1, H3, H4, H5a, H6, H7, H13
Table 8.3 mtDNA haplogroups of Ireland
Haplogroup. Home In Ireland (KYA)

U Greece. 7.3
X. Caucasus 5.5
H. S. France 5.5
V. N. Iberia. 5.5
T. N. Italy. 5.5
K. N. Italy 5.5
J. Near East 4.0

Table 8.4 genetic composition of modern Irish according to mtDNA haplogroups

Pre-farming
D, H, HV, I, K, T, T2, T4, U, U2, U4, U5, U5a, U5a1, U5b, V, W, X

Farming
J, J1a, J1b, J2, T1, U3

8.5 The proposed migration of R1b-14 ("Rory") from Iberia to Ireland.
Shows a clear migration route along the Atllantic facade from Iberia to Ireland

Table 8.5 Major Y chromosome halpogroups in Ireland
Pre-farming
R1a, R1a1, R1b3, IJK, PN3, N3, I1a, I1b2, I1c
Farming
E3b, G, J

Table 8.6 Distribution of Y chromosome haplogroup R1b among populations in Ireland. Irish surnames were compared to non Irish surnames.

Source. %R1b
Connacht. 98
Munster. 95
Ulster. 81
Leinster. 73
English. 63
Scottish. 53
Norman/Norse. 83

The Irish modal haplogroup (M222) and its ancestors
Shown the haplogroup tree from M269 > L11 > U106, P312 > L21, U152 > M222
M222 accounts for about 5% of Irishmen

Distribution of L21 (M529)
Map with peak in Ireland and distribution along the Atlantic Facade

Next I look at my over 1,000 Relative Finder matches and create a Network Diagram mapping Paternal Haplogroup to Maternal Haplogroup and Maternal Haplogroup to Paternal Haplogroup. This is consistent with the findings of Mallory but in addition it gives me clues to the more recent migrations of my ancestors.
The dominant L21 Paternal and H1 Maternal who stayed in Ireland is reflected in the diagram. Those ancestors who migrated to the US and were the earliest settlers of Minnesota and married with other Irish families or with the local German families in Minnesota as reflected in the U106 matches.
Again this is entirely consistent with my knowledge of my ancestors story and with the latest scientific studies.

The Paternal analysis gives the following picture.
RF Paternal Haplogroup Mapped to Maternal Haplogroup Matches. R 373, R1a 29, R1b 373, M269 1, L23 3, L11 44, U106 51, U152 25, P312 20, L21 124, M222 63, J24, I115, G11, E11, U106 51.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764829573/

The Maternal Analysis gives the following picture.
RF Maternal Haplogroup Mapped to Paternal Haplogroup Matches. Matches 1048 H 461, H1 119, H2 31, H3 45, H4, 23, H5 32, H6 24, H7 15, J 101, K 79, T 102, U 134.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764829567/

My conclusion is that our Paternal and Maternal Haplogroups and their matches tell us a much more powerful story than is currently available with Haplogroup Analysis alone or Ancestry Composition.
Even Geno 2.0 which is the benchmark for deep ancestry does not exploit this capability.

There is a case to be made for integrating the data available from RF and AC and Haplogroup Tree Mutation Mapper to give a more accurate picture of our ancestors migrations.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764374874/

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534763591605/

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/celtic-migrations-dna/

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on February 25, 2013, 02:16:17 PM
Table 8.6 Distribution of Y chromosome haplogroup R1b among populations in Ireland. Irish surnames were compared to non Irish surnames.

Source. %R1b
Connacht. 98
Munster. 95
Ulster. 81
Leinster. 73
English. 63
Scottish. 53
Norman/Norse. 83

Thanks, Heber. You are a wealth of information.

I just want to make sure I understand the numbers above from Mallory's Table 8.6.

When it lists Connacht at 95%, are they saying
that 95% of all men in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of the men with Irish surnames in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of Irish men with Connacht based surnames are R1b?

The Scottish 53% number seems a little low. Are these Scottish surnames in Ireland?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on February 25, 2013, 02:45:30 PM
Table 8.6 Distribution of Y chromosome haplogroup R1b among populations in Ireland. Irish surnames were compared to non Irish surnames.

Source. %R1b
Connacht. 98
Munster. 95
Ulster. 81
Leinster. 73
English. 63
Scottish. 53
Norman/Norse. 83

Thanks, Heber. You are a wealth of information.

I just want to make sure I understand the numbers above from Mallory's Table 8.6.

When it lists Connacht at 95%, are they saying
that 95% of all men in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of the men with Irish surnames in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of Irish men with Connacht based surnames are R1b?

The Scottish 53% number seems a little low. Are these Scottish surnames in Ireland?

Mike,

The most basic attempt to relate surnames to the Y Chrosomone was undertaken in 2000, when DNA samples were drawn from males with Irish surnames and then arranged according to province and compared with those of men living in Ireland whose surnames were not Irish. This is what is shown in table 8.6.
The highest frequency of R1b occurs in Ireland and the highest frequence of R1b and sub clades in Ireland occurs in the West of Ireland.
This was later confirmed by Busby and Myres.

http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534763811258/
http://pinterest.com/pin/32721534764801408/

I know you are interested in the Walshes of the mountains. I am putting together a board on the Wine Geese, those Irish who left following the defeat at Aughrim and Limerick for the continent (Wild Geese) and who distinguished themselves in European armies and settled down as owners of wine chateaux.
Several of the Grand Chateaux belonged to the Walsh-Serrant who are apparently directly descended from Walsh of the Mountains, so maybe you might pay a visit on you next trip to France. These are not "Vin de Table". These are amongst the "Grand Cru" of France.

http://pinterest.com/gerardcorcoran/irish-chateaux-the-wine-geese/



Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on February 25, 2013, 02:54:34 PM
Table 8.6 Distribution of Y chromosome haplogroup R1b among populations in Ireland. Irish surnames were compared to non Irish surnames.

Source. %R1b
Connacht. 98
Munster. 95
Ulster. 81
Leinster. 73
English. 63
Scottish. 53
Norman/Norse. 83

Thanks, Heber. You are a wealth of information.

I just want to make sure I understand the numbers above from Mallory's Table 8.6.

When it lists Connacht at 95%, are they saying
that 95% of all men in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of the men with Irish surnames in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of Irish men with Connacht based surnames are R1b?

The Scottish 53% number seems a little low. Are these Scottish surnames in Ireland?

Mike,

This most basic attempt to relate surnames to the Y Chrosomone was undertaken in 2000, when DNA samples were drawn from males with Irish surnames and then arranged according to province and compared with those of men living in Ireland whose surnames were not Irish. This is what is shown in table 8.6. The highest frequency of R1b occurs in the West of Ireland.....

Thank you.

I'm still unclear on the Scottish and Norman/Norse categories. Of course they are NOT Irish provinces of so are those two categories of surnames. In other words, 53% of the men in Ireland with Scottish surnames are R1b and 83% of the men in Ireland with Norman/Norse surnames are R1b?  Is that what this is saying?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on February 25, 2013, 04:23:36 PM
Table 8.6 Distribution of Y chromosome haplogroup R1b among populations in Ireland. Irish surnames were compared to non Irish surnames.

Source. %R1b
Connacht. 98
Munster. 95
Ulster. 81
Leinster. 73
English. 63
Scottish. 53
Norman/Norse. 83

Thanks, Heber. You are a wealth of information.

I just want to make sure I understand the numbers above from Mallory's Table 8.6.

When it lists Connacht at 95%, are they saying
that 95% of all men in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of the men with Irish surnames in Connacht are R1b?
or 95% of Irish men with Connacht based surnames are R1b?

The Scottish 53% number seems a little low. Are these Scottish surnames in Ireland?

Mike,

This most basic attempt to relate surnames to the Y Chrosomone was undertaken in 2000, when DNA samples were drawn from males with Irish surnames and then arranged according to province and compared with those of men living in Ireland whose surnames were not Irish. This is what is shown in table 8.6. The highest frequency of R1b occurs in the West of Ireland.....

Thank you.

I'm still unclear on the Scottish and Norman/Norse categories. Of course they are NOT Irish provinces of so are those two categories of surnames. In other words, 53% of the men in Ireland with Scottish surnames are R1b and 83% of the men in Ireland with Norman/Norse surnames are R1b?  Is that what this is saying?

Mike,
Correct. That is what he is saying but he continues,
 "In short at this degree of resolution (year 2000) we can only say that an Irish identity has been mapped onto the distribution of an earlier genetic type, not that the genetic type is in any way associated with being Irish."

We know that there was a lot of admixture between the majority Irish and the minority Normans, so that the Normans became "More Irish than the Irish themselves". Moffat and Wilson also tells us that Scotland has a very diverse Haplogroup mix so that R1b did not reach the frequencies it did in Ireland.
In any event the later more detailed Myres and Busby data confirms the higher frequencies of R1b and subclades in Ireland and in particular the West of Ireland.

One of the problems with the Mallory book and others eg Catherine Nash, Of Irish Origins, is that they depend on old studies eg Underhill,  and relatively few STRs. I don't criticise these studies. They were the pioneers. However, the industry has moved on and Autosomal studies are widely available, and Next Generation Sequencing is now the benchmark.
I would have more confidence in Tyler Smith and Patterson. Unfortunately they do not interpret the Irish context or Archealogy and Language.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Mike Walsh on February 25, 2013, 05:55:49 PM
Mike,
Correct. That is what he is saying but he continues,
 "In short at this degree of resolution (year 2000) we can only say that an Irish identity has been mapped onto the distribution of an earlier genetic type, not that the genetic type is in any way associated with being Irish."

We know that there was a lot of admixture between the majority Irish and the minority Normans, so that the Normans became "More Irish than the Irish themselves". Moffat and Wilson also tells us that Scotland has a very diverse Haplogroup mix so that R1b did not reach the frequencies it did in Ireland.
In any event the later more detailed Myres and Busby data confirms the higher frequencies of R1b and subclades in Ireland and in particular the West of Ireland.

One of the problems with the Mallory book and others eg Catherine Nash, Of Irish Origins, is that they depend on old studies eg Underhill,  and relatively few STRs. I don't criticise these studies. They were the pioneers. However, the industry has moved on and Autosomal studies are widely available, and Next Generation Sequencing is now the benchmark.
I would have more confidence in Tyler Smith and Patterson. Unfortunately they do not interpret the Irish context or Archealogy and Language.

I wonder if I can that 2000 DNA/Irish surname study. Did he cite it in the references?


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on February 25, 2013, 06:44:07 PM
Mike,
Correct. That is what he is saying but he continues,
 "In short at this degree of resolution (year 2000) we can only say that an Irish identity has been mapped onto the distribution of an earlier genetic type, not that the genetic type is in any way associated with being Irish."

We know that there was a lot of admixture between the majority Irish and the minority Normans, so that the Normans became "More Irish than the Irish themselves". Moffat and Wilson also tells us that Scotland has a very diverse Haplogroup mix so that R1b did not reach the frequencies it did in Ireland.
In any event the later more detailed Myres and Busby data confirms the higher frequencies of R1b and subclades in Ireland and in particular the West of Ireland.

One of the problems with the Mallory book and others eg Catherine Nash, Of Irish Origins, is that they depend on old studies eg Underhill,  and relatively few STRs. I don't criticise these studies. They were the pioneers. However, the industry has moved on and Autosomal studies are widely available, and Next Generation Sequencing is now the benchmark.
I would have more confidence in Tyler Smith and Patterson. Unfortunately they do not interpret the Irish context or Archealogy and Language.

I wonder if I can that 2000 DNA/Irish surname study. Did he cite it in the references?

Mike,

I believe it is Hill et al (2000)

Y-chromosome variation and Irish origins

Emmeline W. Hill1, Mark A. Jobling2 & Daniel G. Bradley1

Ireland's position on the western edge of Europe suggests that the genetics of its population should have been relatively undisturbed by the demographic movements that have shaped variation on the mainland. We have typed 221 Y chromosomes from Irish males for seven (slowly evolving) biallelic and six (quickly evolving) simple tandem-repeat markers. When these samples are partitioned by surname, we find significant differences in genetic frequency between those of Irish Gaelic and of foreign origin, and also between those of eastern and western Irish origin. Connaught, the westernmost Irish province, lies at the geographical and genetic extreme of a Europe-wide cline.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v404/n6776/abs/404351a0.html

Other related papers are:

http://www.le.ac.uk/ge/maj4/SurnamesForWeb.pdf

http://www.le.ac.uk/ge/maj4/KingJoblingRevisedWeb.pdf

Edit: Year of hill study is 2000


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Dubhthach on February 26, 2013, 05:56:02 AM
The days when 13 STR's were deemed sufficient, awh well.

What's funny I think is to remove a norse name they removed anyone called Doyle. Personally I think that people read to much into meaning of a surname and do direct translation.

For example does Ó Dubhghaill (O'Doyle/McDowell, MacDougal etc.) mean "descendant of a Black-Foreigner" (eg. Norse Viking) or does it mean descendant of a man called Dubhghall. After all as a personal name it still survived today anglisced as Dougal. My feeling is that people are reading the name literally which might not be the case at all.

Another prime example is MacManus. Maghnus as a first name derives from Viking usage and was introduced into Ireland and adopted by "Native Irish" as a name to give their sons -- just as today for example I gave my own son the good "Roman name" of Marcus.


Title: Re: National Geographic and Family Tree DNA Announce Geno 2.0
Post by: Heber on February 27, 2013, 03:23:36 AM
Mike,
If you want to catch up with Dr Emmeline Hills latest research here is a recent presentation on horse pedigrees and the speed gene. Interesting stuff.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=XB-VDhXnn4g