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General Forums - Note: You must Be Logged In to post. Anyone can browse. => Autosomal Block DNA Testing - "Family Finder" and "Relative Finder" => Topic started by: rms2 on February 18, 2012, 07:30:37 PM



Title: "Middle Eastern" Population Finder Results for British Isles Men
Post by: rms2 on February 18, 2012, 07:30:37 PM
As I mentioned on another thread, my Population Finder results show 95.37% Western European (Orcadian) and 4.63% Middle Eastern (the whole FTDNA sample panoply). As a project admin, I have seen a lot of Family Finder results and have noticed that most men of British Isles descent - including current citizens of Ireland and the UK - have results like mine: 90-something percent Western European, with the remainder "Middle Eastern".

When I wrote to Dr. Doug McDonald, his analysis showed me as "100% English". The PCA chart he sent me showed me squarely in the little cluster of English dots, wedged in between the French and Irish, whose dots are hard by on either side.

Dr. McDonald said my French and Dutch lines are pulling my results to the east a bit, and that is showing up as "Middle Eastern". I did not really understand how that could be, but I came across the following post from Timothy Peterman at the FTDNA Forum, and that seems to clear things up.

Quote from: Timothy Peterman
Continental ancestry can sometimes trigger secondary population matches that show up as Middle Eastern or Southern European. This is because the Dutch, Germans & Swiss are not really Orcadian; they do have a pull to the SE & since those populations are not represented, the closest match is populations south & east of there.

Hopefully, the new version of PF will eliminate this anomaly, so that a Middle Eastern percentage really means Middle Eastern.

Timothy Peterman


I thought I would post this here because so many of us have similar results. We need to understand what they mean rather than going off thinking we actually have some kind of Middle Eastern ancestry.

Don't get me wrong, I was cool with the Population Finder result as reported, but I want to know the truth.


Title: Re: "Middle Eastern" Population Finder Results for British Isles Men
Post by: Alpine on October 26, 2012, 03:43:33 AM
As I mentioned on another thread, my Population Finder results show 95.37% Western European (Orcadian) and 4.63% Middle Eastern (the whole FTDNA sample panoply). As a project admin, I have seen a lot of Family Finder results and have noticed that most men of British Isles descent - including current citizens of Ireland and the UK - have results like mine: 90-something percent Western European, with the remainder "Middle Eastern".

When I wrote to Dr. Doug McDonald, his analysis showed me as "100% English". The PCA chart he sent me showed me squarely in the little cluster of English dots, wedged in between the French and Irish, whose dots are hard by on either side.

Dr. McDonald said my French and Dutch lines are pulling my results to the east a bit, and that is showing up as "Middle Eastern". I did not really understand how that could be, but I came across the following post from Timothy Peterman at the FTDNA Forum, and that seems to clear things up.

Quote from: Timothy Peterman
Continental ancestry can sometimes trigger secondary population matches that show up as Middle Eastern or Southern European. This is because the Dutch, Germans & Swiss are not really Orcadian; they do have a pull to the SE & since those populations are not represented, the closest match is populations south & east of there.

Hopefully, the new version of PF will eliminate this anomaly, so that a Middle Eastern percentage really means Middle Eastern.

Timothy Peterman


I thought I would post this here because so many of us have similar results. We need to understand what they mean rather than going off thinking we actually have some kind of Middle Eastern ancestry.

Don't get me wrong, I was cool with the Population Finder result as reported, but I want to know the truth.

I was told it works like this,
mine is

Europe (Western European)    Basque, French, Orcadian, Spanish    37.08%    ±12.10%
Europe (Southern European)    Tuscan    62.92%    ±12.10%

the system measures the kilometres from the central of the noted countries from western europe section,  62.92% of the kilometres to tuscany then places it,  tuscany measures 37.08% of the total kilometres towards the others...a point is set............mine being around the french/italian border. It is accurate with the Mcdonald test as well

I can load my pinpoint to show you if you like


Title: Re: "Middle Eastern" Population Finder Results for British Isles Men
Post by: rms2 on October 28, 2012, 03:43:51 PM
I'm not sure I understand. Whatever you can do to clarify would be appreciated.


Title: Re: "Middle Eastern" Population Finder Results for British Isles Men
Post by: razyn on December 07, 2012, 04:11:04 PM
Have you looked at the new Ancestry Painting functions at 23andMe?  CeCe Moore and Roberta Estes have blogged about it in the past 24 hours.  It's quite a lot sharper than it used to be, and for me at least it's now picking up a weak Native American signal that should be present, but was missed previously by 23andMe PF, FTDNA Family Finder, Doug McDonald, and various admixture programs.  Turn up the heat to Speculative, and high resolution mapping, look at the chromosome view, etc.  See what they find, now.  I was very pleased -- mine is Colonial VA and NC, and they have little or no reference population to work from.


Title: Re: "Middle Eastern" Population Finder Results for British Isles Men
Post by: rms2 on December 07, 2012, 10:09:39 PM
I don't have any 23andMe results to look at, unfortunately. I have to await refinements in Population Finder, which I hope are coming sooner rather than later.