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Author Topic: New SNPs for L21* folks - DF21  (Read 7305 times)
rms2
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« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2011, 06:59:06 PM »

A few more DF21 results have come in, and there may be more before the evening is over. Anyway, one of those that has come in is for another continental, a Norwegian this time, and he is DF21-.

So, thus far, DF21 is 0 for 4 when it comes to continental Europeans.

Interestingly it has been reported over on DNA-Forums that a Little Scots Cluster chap is DF21+ whilst somebody who's Scots Modal is neg.

You know, I have not systematically checked this, but it struck me last night when I was going through results that Scots from the old Pictish areas were coming up negative, while the others - Dalriadans? - were more likely to get a positive result.

Now that is just a first impression. I haven't checked into it. I could be wrong, but what you just said about the Scots Modal man being DF21- would seem to support it, if the Scots Modal is thought of as a Pictish signature.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 07:00:43 PM by rms2 » Logged

Jdean
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« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2011, 07:17:24 PM »

You know, I have not systematically checked this, but it struck me last night when I was going through results that Scots from the old Pictish areas were coming up negative, while the others - Dalriadans? - were more likely to get a positive result.

Now that is just a first impression. I haven't checked into it. I could be wrong, but what you just said about the Scots Modal man being DF21- would seem to support it, if the Scots Modal is thought of as a Pictish signature.

It would be very interesting if your casual observation panned out. Who knows maybe DF21 will end up being a Scottish SNP, it does seem very Isles based at the moment.

Uh oh I just had deja vu :)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 07:19:51 PM by Jdean » Logged

Y-DNA R-DF49*
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rms2
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2011, 07:19:12 AM »

Once there are enough DF21+ results, it will be interesting to see which region has the highest haplotype variance.

Thus far, I don't see anyone who is DF21+ with a haplotype similar to mine. But that might not mean anything, if DF21 is old enough.
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rms2
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2011, 07:46:12 AM »

Don't know why I'm getting so interested in DF21. I'll probably be negative for it.

Ah, well. There's always DF23, if FTDNA ever starts testing for it. It would be kind of cool to be on the branch leading from L21 to M222.
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Jdean
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2011, 08:28:47 AM »

Don't know why I'm getting so interested in DF21. I'll probably be negative for it.

Ah, well. There's always DF23, if FTDNA ever starts testing for it. It would be kind of cool to be on the branch leading from L21 to M222.

There are a few SNPs identified in the 1000 Genome project probably worth considering for us R-L21* folks when FTDNA get round to adding them to their list.

Z251, Z252 & Z254

 L21 Candidate SNPs
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 08:29:27 AM by Jdean » Logged

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cmblandford
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« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2011, 02:56:46 PM »

Quote
L21 Candidate SNPs

What is the meaning of "Irish Genome" branched from DF21?
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Jdean
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2011, 03:57:48 PM »

What is the meaning of "Irish Genome" branched from DF21?

The Irish Genome is a publicly available complete (?) genome sequence anonymously donated by somebody of Irish decent.
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cmblandford
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« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2011, 04:26:02 PM »

I don't understand why it is shown branched from DF21.  Obviously something I am missing at the moment.
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rms2
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« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2011, 06:29:34 PM »

I don't understand why it is shown branched from DF21.  Obviously something I am missing at the moment.

There was a report, I think from September of last year, on the fully sequenced genome of an Irishman. It turns out he is DF21+, as I understand it.

I don't know why that's on the chart either.
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Jdean
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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2011, 07:26:06 PM »

I don't understand why it is shown branched from DF21.  Obviously something I am missing at the moment.


He's shown there because he's DF21 positive but negative for DF5.

Other people have been found who DF21* as well now.

It's starting to look like DF21 is going to be a pretty major branch of R-L21 :)
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OConnor
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« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2011, 07:19:39 AM »

I have tested for DF21

Batch 425
Results due Sept 26
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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MHammers
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« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2011, 03:04:17 PM »

I received my DF21- result today.  Are there any ideas what DF21 + or - means in terms of L21 history?
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2011, 04:57:22 PM »

I received my DF21- result today.  Are there any ideas what DF21 + or - means in terms of L21 history?
I think it may be more like "prehistory".  DF21 has no consistent haplotype signature other than to say its modal is L21's. DF21 is scattered across the British Isles along with the rest of L21. I don't think it has been found on the continent yet, but it's off to a pretty fast start.  I think that all just means it is old.
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OConnor
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2011, 12:38:42 AM »

I suspect it will be found in Norway if it is found in substancial numbers in the Isles
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2011, 01:58:02 PM »

So, can anyone quickly list which of the big clusters are positive and negative for this.
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seferhabahir
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« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2011, 11:30:44 PM »

So, can anyone quickly list which of the big clusters are positive and negative for this.

The following is from David Reynolds' DF21 Project Background Page...

Predicted DF21+ Clusters
21-1014-A
21-1169-A
21-1169-B
21-1722
21-3016
21-49211 includes Ely Carrol
21-LS (was 1030-A-Sc-LS) Little Scots

Predicted DF21- Clusters
711
1014
1014-B
1014-Loc
1030
1030-A-Sc
1030-A-Sc-24 Scots Modal
1111EE
1130-A-1
1130-B
1210SP
1226
14N-B-WSW
14N-C
1413
1416-N
1422
1426
1511
1511-A-T2 South Irish aka Irish Type II
1515-Who
2117
2510
921-B
9919-A Double-9 Double-19
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saphorr
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« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2011, 05:12:10 PM »

As David has reported on dna-forums and the R-L21 list, we have today our first continental DF21+ result:
Kaptein (E9807), from the Netherlands.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 05:12:28 PM by saphorr » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2011, 07:26:50 PM »

As David has reported on dna-forums and the R-L21 list, we have today our first continental DF21+ result:
Kaptein (E9807), from the Netherlands.

Yeah, that's true. There were a bunch of continental DF21 results today, all of them negative, except for Kaptein.

In fact, there were quite a few DF21 results in general today, and Kaptein's was the only positive.
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rms2
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« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2011, 07:44:05 PM »

As David has reported on dna-forums and the R-L21 list, we have today our first continental DF21+ result:
Kaptein (E9807), from the Netherlands.

Yeah, that's true. There were a bunch of continental DF21 results today, all of them negative, except for Kaptein.

In fact, there were quite a few DF21 results in general today, and Kaptein's was the only positive.

I count ten continental DF21 results this evening, all negative except for Kaptein of the Netherlands.

Of the nine negatives, five were French and four were German.
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rms2
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« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2011, 06:26:33 PM »

I could have missed somebody, but I went back and counted the number of continental European DF21 results thus far. There have been 17, all negative but one, Kaptein of the Netherlands.

Here's the breakdown of the negative results.

Denmark  -  1

France  -  6

Germany  -  5

Norway  -  1

Spain  -  3


There are currently 13 men of continental European descent awaiting DF21 results. Here's the breakdown by country on those waiting on DF21 results.

Denmark  -  1

France  -  3

Germany  -  7

Norway  -  1

Switzerland  -  1


« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 06:27:10 PM by rms2 » Logged

seferhabahir
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« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2011, 10:13:42 PM »

I could have missed somebody, but I went back and counted the number of continental European DF21 results thus far. There have been 17, all negative but one, Kaptein of the Netherlands.

Does Belarus count as continental? I tested DF21- and am certainly not from the Isles.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2011, 10:24:56 PM »

One of our Isle of Man L159.2+ samples tested DF21- today.
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rms2
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« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2011, 08:10:43 AM »

I could have missed somebody, but I went back and counted the number of continental European DF21 results thus far. There have been 17, all negative but one, Kaptein of the Netherlands.

Does Belarus count as continental? I tested DF21- and am certainly not from the Isles.

Sorry. I said I might have missed someone in my counting, and evidently I did.

Here's the revised breakdown of continental DF21- results.

Belarus  -  1

Denmark  -  1

France  -  6

Germany  -  5

Norway  -  1

Spain  -  3


So, out of 18 continental European DF21 test results, just one has been DF21+, Kaptein of the Netherlands.
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rms2
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« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2011, 08:33:15 PM »

Well, I was hoping I would get my DF21 result today, although it's not due until 19 September. Looks like it isn't going to happen. Sigh . . .

I hate waiting.

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. It's kind of all the same to me, negative result or positive result, except that I don't like to part with money for negative results. So, for that reason, I hope I am DF21+, but I won't be brokenhearted if I am DF21-.
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Wilco
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« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2011, 07:50:16 AM »

I could have missed somebody, but I went back and counted the number of continental European DF21 results thus far. There have been 17, all negative but one, Kaptein of the Netherlands.

Does Belarus count as continental? I tested DF21- and am certainly not from the Isles.

I think guys from the Netherlands and close to Kaptein on 67 markers have the best change to be DF21+

So far Kaptein is the only Dutch guy to have been tested on DF21
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