News: Unearthed Aryan cities rewrite history

[OConnor]

BRONZE Age cities archaeologists say could be the precursor of Western civilisation is being uncovered in excavations on the Russian steppe.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/unearthed-aryan-cities-rewrite-history/story-e6frg6so-1225933563131

[Jean M]

Not really news. This is the Andronovo Culture. The papers have just picked up the publicity for a BBC Radio programme last month.

[OConnor]

Jean are these related to Andronovo Culture ?

MOSCOW — A Russian archaeologist claimed Tuesday to have found the well-preserved ruins of a "Caucasian Stonehenge" built by a previously unknown Bronze Age civilization in southern Russia.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hcq9jf46Nb-Gz_f3scn9YFGCC6DwD9IQ8SAG0?docId=D9IQ8SAG0


Bronze Age Civilization Discovered In Russia
The civilization is linked to the Kuban civilization
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1929825/bronze_age_civilization_discovered_in_russia/index.html
 

[Jean M]

I don't think so. They say it is related to the Kuban/Koban Culture. No-one is too sure of the ethnicity of its creators. The Kuban Culture went in for kurgan-type graves, but so did the Maikop before them. That on its own does not indicate that they spoke an Indo-European language. The Caucasus has preserved an amazing number of languages.

The Hermitage Museum in Russia has some interesting objects from the Koban Culture, including this belt buckle in the shape of a galloping horse:
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_2_4b.html

 

[llew_james]

BRONZE Age cities archaeologists say could be the precursor of Western civilisation is being uncovered in excavations on the Russian steppe.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/unearthed-aryan-cities-rewrite-history/story-e6frg6so-1225933563131

If the article is correct then the Proto-Celtic language could not have entered Britain during the Beaker culture period!

[rms2]

BRONZE Age cities archaeologists say could be the precursor of Western civilisation is being uncovered in excavations on the Russian steppe.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/unearthed-aryan-cities-rewrite-history/story-e6frg6so-1225933563131

If the article is correct then the Proto-Celtic language could not have entered Britain during the Beaker culture period!

How is that?

Have you read David Anthony's The Horse the Wheel and Language?

[llew_james]

BRONZE Age cities archaeologists say could be the precursor of Western civilisation is being uncovered in excavations on the Russian steppe.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/unearthed-aryan-cities-rewrite-history/story-e6frg6so-1225933563131

If the article is correct then the Proto-Celtic language could not have entered Britain during the Beaker culture period!

How is that?

Have you read David Anthony's The Horse the Wheel and Language?

In the article the cities (if I can call them that) date from 3500-4000 years ago!

[rms2]

BRONZE Age cities archaeologists say could be the precursor of Western civilisation is being uncovered in excavations on the Russian steppe.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/unearthed-aryan-cities-rewrite-history/story-e6frg6so-1225933563131

If the article is correct then the Proto-Celtic language could not have entered Britain during the Beaker culture period!

How is that?

Have you read David Anthony's The Horse the Wheel and Language?

In the article the cities (if I can call them that) date from 3500-4000 years ago!

Okay. Sorry, but I fail to see how the existence of those "cities" in the 4th millennium BC means that Beaker Folk living over a thousand years later could not have carried an early form of Celtic to the British Isles.

[llew_james]

BRONZE Age cities archaeologists say could be the precursor of Western civilisation is being uncovered in excavations on the Russian steppe.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/unearthed-aryan-cities-rewrite-history/story-e6frg6so-1225933563131

If the article is correct then the Proto-Celtic language could not have entered Britain during the Beaker culture period!

How is that?

Have you read David Anthony's The Horse the Wheel and Language?

In the article the cities (if I can call them that) date from 3500-4000 years ago!

Okay. Sorry, but I fail to see how the existence of those "cities" in the 4th millennium BC means that Beaker Folk living over a thousand years later could not have carried an early form of Celtic to the British Isles.

3500-4000 years ago would be 1500-2000 BC it wouldn't be 4^thmillennium BC!

[rms2]

Sorry. I am tired, and I thought I read "BC" instead of "years ago".

I still don't see how the existence of those cities 3500-4000 years ago means Beaker Folk could not have carried an early form of Celtic to the British Isles.

The Indo-European languages are much older than 3500-4000 years.

Even conservative estimates make Proto-Indo-European at least 6,000 or more years old.

We have Anatolian Indo-European inscriptions that are as old if not older than the cities mentioned in that article.

[llew_james]

Sorry. I am tired, and I thought I read "BC" instead of "years ago".

I still don't see how the existence of those cities 3500-4000 years ago means Beaker Folk could not have carried an early form of Celtic to the British Isles.

The Indo-European languages are much older than 3500-4000 years.

Even conservative estimates make Proto-Indo-European at least 6,000 or more years old.

We have Anatolian Indo-European inscriptions that are as old if not older than the cities mentioned in that article.

True we also have Sanskrit that dates at least to that time as well! The dating of PIE as huge variations in it!

[llew_james]

We have Anatolian Indo-European inscriptions that are as old if not older than the cities mentioned in that article.

According to Wikipedia Hittite dates to circa 2000BC Sanskrit dates to within the same period.

[rms2]

We have Anatolian Indo-European inscriptions that are as old if not older than the cities mentioned in that article.

According to Wikipedia Hittite dates to circa 2000BC Sanskrit dates to within the same period.

The earliest known Sanskrit documents date to the 1st century BC. Sanskrit as a language is estimated to have arisen around 1500 BC.

There are Hittite inscriptions that date from 1900 BC. That is actual documentary evidence for the language, not a linguist's guess at how old it is.

Proto-Anatolian existed by about 3400 BC, at least according to David Anthony in his book, The Horse The Wheel and Language (p. 46).

[Sharrukin]

The descriptive "precursor to European civilization" is itself a misnomer.  The culture as described in the article is compared with the culture which gave rise to Vedic civilization in India.  By the later Iron Age, the western "Andronovian" elements which do make their impact on Europe were known collectively as the Sarmatians.