Hungarian R-L21

[rms2]

We have a new Hungarian R-L21: Orbán, kit 194684, Ysearch Y83FH.

He is ethnically Hungarian, but his most distant y-dna ancestor came from Transylvania in Romania.

Orbán is tested to 37 markers but has no close matches beyond some two-aways at 25 markers.

[rms2]

We have a new Hungarian R-L21: Orbán, kit 194684, Ysearch Y83FH.

He is ethnically Hungarian, but his most distant y-dna ancestor came from Transylvania in Romania.

Orbán is tested to 37 markers but has no close matches beyond some two-aways at 25 markers.

I put him in the Hungary category on the Y-DNA Results page of the R-L21 Plus Project because he has Hungary listed as country of origin and he is Hungarian, even though he lists Transylvania for his mdka in Ysearch.

[GoldenHind]

I believe Transylvania was part of Hungary before WWI, after which it was ceeded to Romania.

[rms2]

I believe Transylvania was part of Hungary before WWI, after which it was ceeded to Romania.

Yeah, part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. But I usually go with the modern countries. It's a lot simpler.

In this case Hungary is a better fit though.

[admixman]

It’s interesting to see the center of mass of R-L21 move slightly to the east. As more males are tested in Eastern Europe, I think we will find a lot more L21’s there.

I put Mr. Orbán’s profile into my spreadsheet to calculate his weighted genetic distance from the modal (see my thread “What is considered significantly “off-modal” for L-21”). On 37 markers, he has a genetic distance of 12 and a weighted genetic distance of 13.

What was more interesting was when I used his profile as the reference, and compared everybody in the L-21 project against him. Of the 18 individuals with a weighted genetic difference of 10 or less, 13 had the last name of Elliott, and these Elliot’s were from Ireland, Scotland, and England!

[rms2]

It’s interesting to see the center of mass of R-L21 move slightly to the east. As more males are tested in Eastern Europe, I think we will find a lot more L21’s there.

I put Mr. Orbán’s profile into my spreadsheet to calculate his weighted genetic distance from the modal (see my thread “What is considered significantly “off-modal” for L-21”). On 37 markers, he has a genetic distance of 12 and a weighted genetic distance of 13.

What was more interesting was when I used his profile as the reference, and compared everybody in the L-21 project against him. Of the 18 individuals with a weighted genetic difference of 10 or less, 13 had the last name of Elliott, and these Elliot’s were from Ireland, Scotland, and England!

Poseidonius (quoted by both Strabo and Diodorus) called British Celts "Cimmerians". Maybe there was something to that.

Of course, modern scholars write that kind of thing off, chalking it up to the ancient tendency to find connections between words and tribal names that really only looked or sounded somewhat alike - in this case, between "Cimbroi" (c. Cymru) and "Cimmerian".

[Brennus]

Poseidonius (quoted by both Strabo and Diodorus) called British Celts "Cimmerians". Maybe there was something to that.

Of course, modern scholars write that kind of thing off, chalking it up to the ancient tendency to find connections between words and tribal names that really only looked or sounded somewhat alike - in this case, between "Cimbroi" (c. Cymru) and "Cimmerian".

Do you have the reference for the quote from Strabo and Diodorus?

[rms2]

Do you have the reference for the quote from Strabo and Diodorus?

Yes, it's from Diodorus 5.32-3 and Strabo 4.43. The same passage is found in both sources because they were quoting the Greek writer Poseidonius. The passage is quoted in David Rankin's Celts and the Classical World, page 78.

Here it is.

The women [of the Celts] are as large as the men and as brave. They are mostly very fair-headed when they are born. The tribes of the north are extremely ferocious. The Irish and British are cannibals. They used to be known as Cimmerioi; now they are called Cimbroi. They captured Rome and plundered Delphi and ended by dominating a great part of Europe and Asia. They mixed easily with the Greeks and this section of them became known as the Gallograeci or Hellenogalatai.

Of course, the passage seems to be referring to the Celts in general, but the reference to "Cimmerioi" comes immediately after the sentence describing the Irish and British as cannibals.

[Brennus]

Do you have the reference for the quote from Strabo and Diodorus?

Yes, it's from Diodorus 5.32-3 and Strabo 4.43. The same passage is found in both sources because they were quoting the Greek writer Poseidonius. The passage is quoted in David Rankin's Celts and the Classical World, page 78.

Here it is.

The women [of the Celts] are as large as the men and as brave. They are mostly very fair-headed when they are born. The tribes of the north are extremely ferocious. The Irish and British are cannibals. They used to be known as Cimmerioi; now they are called Cimbroi. They captured Rome and plundered Delphi and ended by dominating a great part of Europe and Asia. They mixed easily with the Greeks and this section of them became known as the Gallograeci or Hellenogalatai.

Of course, the passage seems to be referring to the Celts in general, but the reference to "Cimmerioi" comes immediately after the sentence describing the Irish and British as cannibals.

Thanks rms2,that was very interesting!

[rms2]

I found a new Hungarian R-L21 this evening: ancestral surname Simon, kit 206389, Ysearch 6NRQ7. The Ysearch entry says the family may have been German.

The mdka came from Pecs, Hungary.

I think they must do a lot of bench presses there . . . in . . . Pecs. ;-)