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rms2
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« on: March 04, 2011, 10:11:36 PM »

Have you seen that thing? It's a whopper!

The full designations for y haplogroups are now so long, hardly anyone will be able to remember them. We'll all have to go to the shorthand versions.

For example, a fairly simple R-L21 man is now officially "R1b1a2a1a1b4".

Chihuahua!!!

And I am not creating separate categories for all the new subclades at the R-P312 and Subclades Project! No way!


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Frances James
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 10:44:53 PM »

Just stick with the shorthand,  at least we will know what group your talking about.
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rms2
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 10:58:52 PM »

Well, I did just create an R-P314 category at the R-L21 Plus Project, and I gathered up the stray men with a new letter at the end of their "R1b1a2a1a1b4" and placed them in the proper categories.

But I am not opening that can of worms at the R-P312 and Subclades Project.
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 11:46:42 PM »

Could you please provide a link?
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 04:54:09 PM »

Could you please provide a link?

Never mind. I see it is now posted on my FTDNA personal pages. I don't believe my designation has changed, but I could never remember it anyway.
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rms2
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2011, 07:16:27 PM »

It might be time to consider breaking up the R-P312 and Subclades Project and making it just for the R-P312* guys. There are just too many subclades now, and they all have their own projects.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2011, 11:45:25 PM »

It might be time to consider breaking up the R-P312 and Subclades Project and making it just for the R-P312* guys. There are just too many subclades now, and they all have their own projects.
I agree.  

If you want to proceed, do you still want to do the geographic subgroupings? There is some merit to re-categorizing by SNP test status..   Perhaps something like  "P312+ L176.2- L238-" versus "P312+ L176.2+ SRY2627- L65-" versus "P312+ L238+", etc.

I'd have to think about the categories, but that might encourage more advanced SNP testing and discovery so we could really whittle P312* down.

What do you think?  If you want, I'll check with the other co-admin and work through the member sub-grouping.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 12:00:07 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
GoldenHind
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2011, 06:09:48 PM »

It might be time to consider breaking up the R-P312 and Subclades Project and making it just for the R-P312* guys. There are just too many subclades now, and they all have their own projects.
I agree.  

If you want to proceed, do you still want to do the geographic subgroupings? There is some merit to re-categorizing by SNP test status..   Perhaps something like  "P312+ L176.2- L238-" versus "P312+ L176.2+ SRY2627- L65-" versus "P312+ L238+", etc.

I'd have to think about the categories, but that might encourage more advanced SNP testing and discovery so we could really whittle P312* down.

What do you think?  If you want, I'll check with the other co-admin and work through the member sub-grouping.

The problem, which we have discussed before without anyone coming up with a solution, is how do we get rid of those members who are in a subclade below P312?

Also I think the geographic subgrouping is useful, but should be listed under each SNP classification If the membership is essentially limited to P312*, there really shouldn't be too many SNP sub-categories.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 06:13:13 PM by GoldenHind » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 09:04:14 PM »

It might be time to consider breaking up the R-P312 and Subclades Project and making it just for the R-P312* guys. There are just too many subclades now, and they all have their own projects.
I agree.  

If you want to proceed, do you still want to do the geographic subgroupings? There is some merit to re-categorizing by SNP test status..   Perhaps something like  "P312+ L176.2- L238-" versus "P312+ L176.2+ SRY2627- L65-" versus "P312+ L238+", etc.

I'd have to think about the categories, but that might encourage more advanced SNP testing and discovery so we could really whittle P312* down.

What do you think?  If you want, I'll check with the other co-admin and work through the member sub-grouping.

The problem, which we have discussed before without anyone coming up with a solution, is how do we get rid of those members who are in a subclade below P312?

Also I think the geographic subgrouping is useful, but should be listed under each SNP classification If the membership is essentially limited to P312*, there really shouldn't be too many SNP sub-categories.

We could just announce that that is what will happen and give the downstream guys (like me) a chance to quit on their own. After that, we just remove them ourselves. Each time you remove someone, you have to include a brief explanation. That would be easy enough to prepare and then copy and paste over and over.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 09:05:30 PM by rms2 » Logged

susanrosine
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2011, 04:46:00 PM »

I have gone ahead and removed my father Warren James kit 35874, since he is also positive for L21, and is already in the L21 project.

You might want to consider going into your GAP page and adding the SNP option to show up on your project site. Anyone going into your site can then click on SNP in the drop down menu, and see which men are positive for P312 and negative for all other SNPs downstream. I did it for my Wales_Cymru project.

Susan
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Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
Frances James
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2011, 12:59:54 AM »

Susan,
how do you add the SNP results to the webpage,  i tried and cant get it.
I asked FTDNA and they said that you cannot add the SNP to the results pages,  but i have seen them on the James project.

Frances
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susanrosine
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2011, 01:12:27 AM »

When you are on your GAP page, click on Project Administration, then Public Website. Now, where it says "YDNA options" check the box Y-DNA SNP.
I must admit I had no idea what it was; I just noticed it was new, so I checked the box and voila, the Y SNP results were suddenly visible on the project website!!
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Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2011, 03:53:40 PM »

Wow, this is great.  Thanks, Susan.  I just tried it for the R-P312 project.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?section=ysnp

RMS2, does this look okay?  I can turn it back off too.

When you are on your GAP page, click on Project Administration, then Public Website. Now, where it says "YDNA options" check the box Y-DNA SNP.
I must admit I had no idea what it was; I just noticed it was new, so I checked the box and voila, the Y SNP results were suddenly visible on the project website!!
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
rms2
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2011, 09:39:51 PM »

Wow, this is great.  Thanks, Susan.  I just tried it for the R-P312 project.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?section=ysnp

RMS2, does this look okay?  I can turn it back off too.

When you are on your GAP page, click on Project Administration, then Public Website. Now, where it says "YDNA options" check the box Y-DNA SNP.
I must admit I had no idea what it was; I just noticed it was new, so I checked the box and voila, the Y SNP results were suddenly visible on the project website!!

Sounds good to me, Mike. I have been so busy lately, I haven't had any extra time.

I've been just trying to keep up with the new members we seem to get all the time.
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2011, 04:07:34 PM »

Wow, this is great.  Thanks, Susan.  I just tried it for the R-P312 project.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?section=ysnp

RMS2, does this look okay?  I can turn it back off too.

When you are on your GAP page, click on Project Administration, then Public Website. Now, where it says "YDNA options" check the box Y-DNA SNP.
I must admit I had no idea what it was; I just noticed it was new, so I checked the box and voila, the Y SNP results were suddenly visible on the project website!!


Excellent. I did notice one problem. Some of these individuals have SNP results which aren't listed. It is certainly understandable when the test was from another company- for instance Eriksson's L238+ result was from EA and Vivies' L239+ was from 23andme.

But why doesn't Plies' L176.2+ result show? It was found by FTDNA in the earlier WTY test. I should know as I am the one who proposed him for the WTY as a member of Nordtvedt's elusive R1b-Ub cluster. Perhaps because this wasn't spotted by FTDNA, but instead by Didier? Is it still escaping FTDNA's notice?
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Frances James
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2011, 10:53:07 PM »

Thanks for the info Susan.
It seems you may know more about the GAP then FTDNA do.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 03:23:12 AM »

When you are on your GAP page, click on Project Administration, then Public Website. Now, where it says "YDNA options" check the box Y-DNA SNP.
I must admit I had no idea what it was; I just noticed it was new, so I checked the box and voila, the Y SNP results were suddenly visible on the project website!!
I put an all out press on (via email) to ask the major R-L11 haplogroup and geographical projects to add this report to their public web-site.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2011, 09:37:27 PM »

When you are on your GAP page, click on Project Administration, then Public Website. Now, where it says "YDNA options" check the box Y-DNA SNP.
I must admit I had no idea what it was; I just noticed it was new, so I checked the box and voila, the Y SNP results were suddenly visible on the project website!!
I put an all out press on (via email) to ask the major R-L11 haplogroup and geographical projects to add this report to their public web-site.

I have just added the YSNP report to the L159 Project website. Thanks, Mike!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mike Walsh
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2011, 11:59:11 PM »

I couldn't find any new YCC tree update on the Y Chromosome Consortium web site at the University of Arizona.... not even a mention in the "progress report" area.

Here is the tree from my FTDNA account haplotree page for R1b:


M343___ R1b
P25____ R1b1
P297___ R1b1a
M73____ R1b1a1
M269___ R1b1a2
L23____ R1b1a2a
L150___ R1b1a2a1
L51____ R1b1a2a1a
L11____ R1b1a2a1a1
U106___ R1b1a2a1a1a
U198___ R1b1a2a1a1a1
P107___ R1b1a2a1a1a2
L1_____ R1b1a2a1a1a3
L48____ R1b1a2a1a1a4
L47____ R1b1a2a1a1a4a
L163___ R1b1a2a1a1a4a1
L46____ R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a
L164___ R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1
L148___ R1b1a2a1a1a4b
L188___ R1b1a2a1a1a4c
L5_____ R1b1a2a1a1a5
P89.2__ R1b1a2a1a1a6
L217___ R1b1a2a1a1a7
L257___ R1b1a2a1a1a8
L325___ R1b1a2a1a1a9
P312___ R1b1a2a1a1b
M65____ R1b1a2a1a1b1
M153___ R1b1a2a1a1b2
U152___ R1b1a2a1a1b3
M126___ R1b1a2a1a1b3a
M160___ R1b1a2a1a1b3b
L2_____ R1b1a2a1a1b3c
L20____ R1b1a2a1a1b3c1
M228.2_ R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a
L196___ R1b1a2a1a1b3c2
L4_____ R1b1a2a1a1b3d
L157___ R1b1a2a1a1b3e
L21____ R1b1a2a1a1b4
M37____ R1b1a2a1a1b4a
M222___ R1b1a2a1a1b4b
P66____ R1b1a2a1a1b4c
L96____ R1b1a2a1a1b4d
L144___ R1b1a2a1a1b4e
L159.2_ R1b1a2a1a1b4f
L193___ R1b1a2a1a1b4g
L226___ R1b1a2a1a1b4h
P314.2_ R1b1a2a1a1b4i
L176.2_ R1b1a2a1a1b5
SRY2627 R1b1a2a1a1b5a
L165___ R1b1a2a1a1b5b
M335___ R1b1b
V88____ R1b1c
M18____ R1b1c1


I counted 53 "terminal" SNP's possible for R1b, versus 28 for the 2008 YCC tree. Since he price for the "universal deep clade" package is down from what I paid for the old "deep clade R" package, I think this is a good deal.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 12:00:56 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2011, 06:57:29 AM »

I am seeing that they recognize R-L150+ (R1b1a2a1), that they have always denied (above all Vincent Vizachero). But what's the matter then?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 06:59:30 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


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MtDNA: K1a1b1e

MHammers
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« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2011, 01:11:24 PM »

I am seeing that they recognize R-L150+ (R1b1a2a1), that they have always denied (above all Vincent Vizachero). But what's the matter then?

I noticed this as well.  Is this another branch we have to keep an eye on?  I took a quick look at the Ht35 project.  Almost all of the L150* shows up at higher percentage in NE Europe (Poland, Lithuania, also Hungary and a few in Russia's north Caucasus).  The supposed ancestor, L23* is more SW Asian and SE Europe (Italy, Greece, Croatia).  I think we might have to reconsider the neolithic farming model for this segment of R1b's history, unless L150 is equivalent to L23 which is how ISOGG has it.
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Ydna: R1b-Z253**


Mtdna: T

susanrosine
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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2011, 02:22:18 PM »

Thanks for the info Susan.
It seems you may know more about the GAP then FTDNA do.
You're welcome. Glad my "discovery" is helping other admins with their projects!

I don't think it's capturing the SNPs discovered in WTY unless they are now offered to the public, and the public has tested for them. ????
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Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
Maliclavelli
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« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2011, 03:57:07 PM »

Many thanks, MHammers. I am seeing the ht35 project of Vizachero, with the new tree, but we don’t understand what has happened after that he has said many times that L150 was at the level of L23 and L49, and above all what has happened to the L150+ of the R-M269 like Sutherland? Have you found any discussion on the forums that banned me and that I don’t read like “forums-dna”?

Your analysis is right, but the West Asian-Middle Eastern ones, like I have said many times, are above all Armenians, then Indo-European, then from the Balkans. The fact that you find this haplotype in Greece, Croatia, Italy seems to give reason to my theory of the “Italian refugium” for this haplogroup.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

MHammers
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« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2011, 05:48:37 PM »

Many thanks, MHammers. I am seeing the ht35 project of Vizachero, with the new tree, but we don’t understand what has happened after that he has said many times that L150 was at the level of L23 and L49, and above all what has happened to the L150+ of the R-M269 like Sutherland? Have you found any discussion on the forums that banned me and that I don’t read like “forums-dna”?

Your analysis is right, but the West Asian-Middle Eastern ones, like I have said many times, are above all Armenians, then Indo-European, then from the Balkans. The fact that you find this haplotype in Greece, Croatia, Italy seems to give reason to my theory of the “Italian refugium” for this haplogroup.

I haven't seen any discussion on L150 since the newest Ftdna nomenclature came out.  Actually the Greek I mentioned was L23, it was a Bulgarian that was L150 though still SE Europe.  Hopefully, we will get some clarification soon.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 05:48:56 PM by MHammers » Logged

Ydna: R1b-Z253**


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MHammers
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2011, 10:48:11 AM »

Many thanks, MHammers. I am seeing the ht35 project of Vizachero, with the new tree, but we don’t understand what has happened after that he has said many times that L150 was at the level of L23 and L49, and above all what has happened to the L150+ of the R-M269 like Sutherland? Have you found any discussion on the forums that banned me and that I don’t read like “forums-dna”?

Your analysis is right, but the West Asian-Middle Eastern ones, like I have said many times, are above all Armenians, then Indo-European, then from the Balkans. The fact that you find this haplotype in Greece, Croatia, Italy seems to give reason to my theory of the “Italian refugium” for this haplogroup.

Maliclavelli,

Here is a reply I received from Darren at Ftdna when I inquired about the positioning of L150.

"Thank you for your email. Our lab along with the Y-chromosome Consortium determined that the best position on the tree for L150 is as a branch of L23. This means it would be downstream of L23 instead of being parallel to it."
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Ydna: R1b-Z253**


Mtdna: T

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