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Dumbledorf
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« on: April 28, 2011, 12:14:01 AM »

Ok been worrying about this for a bit trying to decide if I would post or not.  As you can see posting won out. In reading these forums you all are way into this and I am just starting to get my feet wet so cut the newbie some slack.
Problem is I am waiting for my results to 67 , FF and Mito, I get my twelve back it shows me as a R1b1a2a1a1b and it all looks good. I don't have a lot of matchs (13 @ 12/12) all a different surname and one with my surname and it is 11/12 gd of -1. I know the name and number from the surname project and am certain from his tree we are related within 5 generations and was thinking I should have a 12/12 match in looking closely I see the difference is DYS 392 is 12 for me and normally it is 13 for most R1's.
Now it seems that this mutation either happened in 1770 or he should also have it. Am I wrong in that thinking?
How easy is it to get a bad read on one Allele?
I ordered a deep Clad to see what that shows but should I consider going to another place toget a 12 test?
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 12:43:51 AM »

The mutation of DYS392 from 13  to 12 is very rare, being this marker very slow mutating, but it can happen. I have DYS392=12 and my closest relatives (within 500 years) have the modal 13.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Dumbledorf
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 01:04:21 PM »

Does that mean my childern or siblings could have 13 at DYS192 while i have 12?
or would all males carry the 12 from the point of mutation on?
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 05:57:08 PM »

Once this mutation has happened, being a marker very slow mutating, probably the new value will be maintained for a long time. This is the way a new clade is born. In my family my DYS392=12 will last thousands of years, if I, or my close relatives, will have descendants. But I don't know when it has happened. I now only that a descendant of a brother of an ancestor of mine of the 15th century hasn't it. I should test some intermediate ancestor to know when it has happened. But for my comparing I use the value of 13, because certainly was the value of my family line. To find someone of our haplogroup with 12 is very rare.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

GoldenHind
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 08:31:37 PM »

Ok been worrying about this for a bit trying to decide if I would post or not.  As you can see posting won out. In reading these forums you all are way into this and I am just starting to get my feet wet so cut the newbie some slack.
Problem is I am waiting for my results to 67 , FF and Mito, I get my twelve back it shows me as a R1b1a2a1a1b and it all looks good. I don't have a lot of matchs (13 @ 12/12) all a different surname and one with my surname and it is 11/12 gd of -1. I know the name and number from the surname project and am certain from his tree we are related within 5 generations and was thinking I should have a 12/12 match in looking closely I see the difference is DYS 392 is 12 for me and normally it is 13 for most R1's.

Now it seems that this mutation either happened in 1770 or he should also have it. Am I wrong in that thinking?
How easy is it to get a bad read on one Allele?
I ordered a deep Clad to see what that shows but should I consider going to another place toget a 12 test?
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.


There are two possibilities. Either  one of your ancestor's 13 mutated to 12 at some time since your lines split, or one of his ancestors mutated from 12 to 13. It could have happened at any time since the split between your two branches.Once the mutation happens, it is passed onto all male descendants until another mutation occurs. As Maliclavelli indicates, mutations at DYS 392 don't occur frequently, but they do happen. Thus absent another mutation, your children will inherit your 12 and his the 13. These sort of mutations are very handy in identifying different branches of a family.

Don't waste your money doing another test, as the single marker doesn't really matter much at all, even if it is a lab error- unlikely but not impossible.  Much more important is to see how you match this other branch at 37 and 67 markers, assuming he has had that many markers tested. If your lines only diverged in 1770, you should match at somewhere around 35 out of 37 and not much farther apart at 67.

I hope this helps. Don't forget, we were all new at this hobby once.
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Dumbledorf
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 11:24:21 PM »

Thanks for the info, it is very much appreciated.
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