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Author Topic: That hg. E1b1b1a from the Italian refugium  (Read 1310 times)
Maliclavelli
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« on: January 08, 2011, 12:24:45 PM »

Two years ago, after my banishment from “dna-forums”, I wrote on “Dienekes Anthropology blog” (thread “Age of Italian R1b Y-chromosome”): “Re my theory that the most ancient "Celts" of the British Isles come from Italy: look at Ysearch CAJZT (Marcelli from Italy) and NAWXY (Ramsey from Ireland). The origin could be also from Roman time, as many other similar hgs.”

Now I have found another Italian on SMGF (Mirabelli: 7CPTR) and another “British” (Gudgel: 5HXNP).
They are E1b1b1a… and match closely. They have the rare DYS459=6-9 and fractionated values on DYS385 (not Gudgel who is 17-19) and in DYS464. The recent paper of Trombetta et alii (“A new Topology of the Human Y Chromosome Haplogroup E1b1 (E-P2) Revealed through the Use  of Newly Characterized Binary Polymorphisms”, PloS ONE) has demonstrated that a very ancient E-M35 has a SNP (V68) upstream M78 and is found above all in South Europe (above all Sardinia and Corsica).
I think that this is demonstrating everything I have said in these last years:

1)   a migration from Africa via sea and not via Middle East (like E may have come from there, also R1b1* could have gone to Africa in the same way)
2)   these rare haplotypes demonstrate that the British Isles were peopled from Italy, and of course the major R haplogroup did the same way
3)   there are in Italy many other E1b1b1a with DYS459=9-9 I signalled, like YXPHX (Ferrari).

« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 07:15:56 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2011, 07:04:28 AM »

The presence of an Anonymous Mongolian (HENJR) E1b1b1a* (and some Chinese) with DYS459=6-9 and at an astronomical GD from the European ones must make us reflect. The mutation in DYS459a from 9 to 6 could also be indipendent, anyway probably linked to this haplogroup.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 07:16:49 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2011, 07:55:57 AM »

Added the Chinese Tang (NAU9K).
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2011, 04:35:25 PM »

Posted 3 other Italians:

Costantino: 77G8V
Diana:         C9HH3
Petroni:       JPRSH
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 04:36:31 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 10:44:40 AM »

I think that also Yuzon (HK5BQ) from Philippines is in this cluster. “Athey”, after having gone mad, is for 99,1% I2a (xI2a1). Of course only a SNP test could decide.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2011, 02:30:24 PM »

I don't think I am doing anything unsuitable in publishing this letter of Prof. Fulvio Cruciani which is the response to the first two posts of this thread sent to one of his colleagues, Prof. Rosaria Scozzari.
This isn’t in recognition of me, but of everyone of us who has something to say on this matter, who did exams at his own expense putting the results at everybody’s disposal. Prof. Cruciani (and his colleagues) is one of the most esteemed researcher worldwide, and not like many others who either for ideology or other have written papers that I, but others too, have enjoyed myself to dissect and practically to thwart. His V-series has given fundamental contributions to deepen the origin of many haplogroups, above all E and R, because he practises the science, and this science (like every other one) is made by proofs, in this case by new fundamental SNPs. After there are the interpretations, and for this it isn’t said that the specialist is advantaged. Who of us knows a dozen of languages (ancient and modern ones), has cultivated Glottology, History, Geography and many other disciplines perhaps he too has something to say.

Caro Gioiello,
Rosaria Scozzari mi ha girato la sua email.
I vari post sui blog di antropologia rappresentano per noi una ricca fonte di informazioni su cui riflettere.
Circa le tue ipotesi riportate in questa mail, non mi sento né di contraddirle, ne di appoggiarle, ma le terrò in considerazione.
Spero che in futuro si arrivi ad una comprensione più chiara del nostro passato attraverso gli studi sulla diversità genetica.
Cordiali saluti
Fulvio Cruciani

Fulvio Cruciani, PhD
Dipartimento di Biologia e Biotecnologie "Charles Darwin"
Sapienza Università di Roma
P.le Aldo Moro 5
00185  Rome, Italy
(…)


(Dear Gioiello,
Rosaria Scozzari forwarded to me your email.
Many posts on anthropology blogs are for us a rich source of information to be minded.
Re. your hypotheses reported in your mail, I don’t feel either to contradict them or to support, but I’ll take them in consideration.
Hope that in the future we’ll be able to reach a clearer understanding of our past by studies on genetic diversity.
Kind Regards,
Fulvio Cruciani)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 01:02:27 PM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

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