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rms2
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2011, 10:41:51 AM »

Interesting. Of course, we have known for a long time that Celtic warriors dyed their hair and spiked it up and back with lime and bear grease.

Didn't know any of them had "Mohawks" though!
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A.D.
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2011, 02:20:26 PM »

yes, that is the place o'connor refers too. the hair was siked and shaven at the sides.
there is another one with all the hair brshed up (from the back of the neck and front) and 'glued' vertical. I've never herd of any classicl reference to this either.
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Heber
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2011, 03:00:37 PM »

I went to the exhibition "Kingship and Sacrifice" at the Irish National Museum last year which displayed the bog bodies..
http://www.museum.ie/en/exhibition/list/exhibition-details-kingshipsacrifice.aspx

"The hair product used, for example, was a gel made of plant oil and pine resin imported from southwestern France or Spain, showing that trade between Ireland and southern Europe was taking place almost 2,500 years ago".

It is estimated that Clonycavan man, short in stature, used the hair style to make himself appear taller. Oldcroghan man was over six feet tall but had perfectly manicured fingernails.
I asked the curator if they could extract DNA from the corpes to see if they were L21 or where they might have come from.
She replied that although the bog acids helped preserve the bodies it also destroyed (stewed) any DNA which was present.

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Heber


 
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OConnor
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2011, 05:06:36 PM »

The Tall good looking one was Probably L21 ;)
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Iain Seoras Gunn
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2011, 06:18:57 PM »

LoL The bog body looks for the world like a leprechaun rather than a Pict. I do not think that this guy was typical of the genre and was probably some kind of shaman/druid who would just have to look different from the rest to enhance his mystic. Ended up head first in the bog when he refused a refund to his customer when his Viagara spell failed to work. Thats my theory anyway.
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OConnor
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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2011, 10:08:25 AM »

It's hard for me to imagine what it might be like for someone to relocate, or visit a new lacation in Western Europe before there were police. The woods must have been thick with thieves to slit your throat at a glance, and dump your body in a bog. I do not necessarily go along with some ideas of sacrifice, for bog bodies.
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Heber
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2011, 09:32:38 AM »

"The exhibition is centred on a new theory that connects human sacrifice with sovereignty and kingship rituals during the Iron Age. Research has indicated that other material connected with these rituals include: items of regalia; items associated with equestrian procession; weapons; feasting utensils; boundary markers; items associated with corn and milk production, such as quern stones and butter deposits known as ‘bog butter".

http://www.museum.ie/en/exhibition/list/exhibition-details-kingshipsacrifice.aspx

The bog bodies were found on known territorial boundaries, so they may have been a means of marking territory.
The highways at the time were the rivers, mainly the Shannon, Erne and Boyne.
The bell beakers were also known to be good coastal hoppers. Most of the Celtic migrations appear to be along the great rivers of Europe eg. Danube, Rhone, Rhine, Seine, Moselle or the coastal settlements.
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Heber


 
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A.D.
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2011, 12:28:31 PM »

Its been sugested that somebodies were used as boundry markers.
The Wtlsh hereo Bran upon his death requested his comerades to severe his head and place it on a hill so he could look over his people and prtect them.
So something similar could be happening with the bog bodies.
It seems sensible that a warrior (ie his dead body) would protect from raids /invasion a shaman/druid from spirits etc maybe a woman for fertility, horsres for courses.
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Iain Seoras Gunn
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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2011, 06:04:48 PM »

I tend to agree with that. You know we are not so different from our ancestors where our first priority is to protect our family and our immediate community. For all the cultural advances we have made, we still live in a quasi tribalistic society so much so that someone who lives 10 miles down the road is regarded as an alien and is treated with suspicion because they are not part of your own community. In those days when people began to appreciate the value of land particularly if it had been cleared, farmed and cultivated there were many small conflicts over boundaries. Bog bodies I think were a warning to any would be interlopers.
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A.D.
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« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2011, 09:46:08 PM »

Yeah, Ithink it is still apparent in rural communities today (around where I live anyways). My Da told me a tale of a big fight in his day (the 50,s) over the cutting down of a blackthorn bush. Apparently there would have been a curse on the field(s) if it was cut down. The farers on one side the townies on the other.
You can just imagine what would have happened at the time of the bog bodies.
What do you make of the idea of different types of burials for different kinds of rituals or dedications to gods etc?
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rms2
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« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2011, 08:10:01 PM »

Back to the original topic for a minute or two (nothing wrong with talking about bog bodies, though - no complaints here).

I enjoyed the film and wonder when it will be out on dvd. I plan to buy it.

Wish Hollywood, et al, would make more such films.
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rms2
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« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2011, 07:26:27 PM »

We discussed the Celtic spiked hairstyle a few posts back.

I recently noticed an Irish revival of the ancient practice while watching this year's Eurovision song contest on tv.

Spikey Celtic hair

;-)
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llew_james
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« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2011, 10:57:12 AM »

I went to the exhibition "Kingship and Sacrifice" at the Irish National Museum last year which displayed the bog bodies..
http://www.museum.ie/en/exhibition/list/exhibition-details-kingshipsacrifice.aspx

"The hair product used, for example, was a gel made of plant oil and pine resin imported from southwestern France or Spain, showing that trade between Ireland and southern Europe was taking place almost 2,500 years ago".

It is estimated that Clonycavan man, short in stature, used the hair style to make himself appear taller. Oldcroghan man was over six feet tall but had perfectly manicured fingernails.
I asked the curator if they could extract DNA from the corpes to see if they were L21 or where they might have come from.
She replied that although the bog acids helped preserve the bodies it also destroyed (stewed) any DNA which was present.



They could have done an isotope test like on the Amesbury Archer!
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OConnor
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« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2011, 05:54:38 PM »

I don't know if they recovered any bog-body teeth.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 08:49:27 AM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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