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Author Topic: L21 News  (Read 1653 times)
rms2
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« on: January 04, 2011, 08:41:51 PM »

I think we can use this thread to post any interesting developments that come up in the world of L21 that don't necessarily all fit in a single specific geographic category, or developments in more than one part of the world that are easier just to report in one place.

Anyway, this evening I noticed there is a new Belgian R-L21 on the "Haplotree/My Matches" page of one of our project members and also one from Bulgaria (which is really interesting).

I don't know who these men are yet or anything about them, but I will try to find out.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 08:49:34 PM by rms2 » Logged

NealtheRed
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 09:09:27 PM »

The Bulgarian one could definitely be an interesting addition. I should take a look at Haplotree every now and then.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 09:40:13 PM »

The Bulgarian one could definitely be an interesting addition. I should take a look at Haplotree every now and then.

Yeah, I stumbled on it while looking at the "Haplotree/My Matches" page of a new member of the R-P312 and Subclades Project who is still awaiting L21 results.

I sent FTDNA an email asking them to contact these two individuals and invite them to join the R-L21 Plus Project. I hope they will, but I'm not going to get my hopes up too high; most such requests haven't born any fruit.

I really would like to get a look at the Bulgarian's haplotype and find out if he has any close matches.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 04:53:32 PM »

Rich, you know I have always denied that Italy has R-L21 (except Argiedude: but his case should be deepen). There are an American (probably), from Sicily, named Tornabene (Ysearch: ID URES8) who boasts to descend from the Florentine family Tornabuoni, one of the most illustrious of that city and who seems to match closely some R-L21. I think that would be interesting a SNP exam. If he was R-L21 we could think to an origin not ancient Italian but from some noble family of the medieval period, perhaps of German descent. In Italy there are a few families who take the original surname Tornabuoni and they could be a verification.
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Maliclavelli


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MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Mike Walsh
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2011, 12:30:23 AM »

Another version of the all R-L21+ people (including M222+) has been updated on the Yahoo Group "Files" section at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/

Total # of ht's = 2112
R-M222 = 470
R-L226 = 76
R-L159 = 68
R-L193 = 26
R-P314 =16
R-L144 = 9
R-L21** = 107

72% of the 2112 folks have tested to 67 markers so it behooves you to as well if you haven't.

If you are L21+ be sure join the project. Request those L21+ folks in your surname projects to do the same so they can be included in the various variety and cluster diagrams and analysis. http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join-request.aspx?group=R-L21Plus

Here are the countries by order of highest variance (50 non multi-copy STRs)
France
England
Spain
Ireland
Wales
Germany
Scotland
Scandinavia

The modal for R-L21 All is still the same as R-P312 All which is the Super Western Atlantic Modal. Over 67 markers, the average GD to the modal is 13,  the minimum is 3 and the maximum is 27.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 12:48:39 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
GoldenHind
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2011, 04:50:31 PM »

Another version of the all R-L21+ people (including M222+) has been updated on the Yahoo Group "Files" section at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/

Total # of ht's = 2112
R-M222 = 470
R-L226 = 76
R-L159 = 68
R-L193 = 26
R-P314 =16
R-L144 = 9
R-L21** = 107

72% of the 2112 folks have tested to 67 markers so it behooves you to as well if you haven't.

If you are L21+ be sure join the project. Request those L21+ folks in your surname projects to do the same so they can be included in the various variety and cluster diagrams and analysis. http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join-request.aspx?group=R-L21Plus

Here are the countries by order of highest variance (50 non multi-copy STRs)
France
England
Spain
Ireland
Wales
Germany
Scotland
Scandinavia

The modal for R-L21 All is still the same as R-P312 All which is the Super Western Atlantic Modal. Over 67 markers, the average GD to the modal is 13,  the minimum is 3 and the maximum is 27.

I am a little surprised there are those at a greater GD from the modal than I am (21 at 75). Perhaps their ancestors came from even farther afield than Mars. Who is the champ?
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2011, 01:07:54 PM »

Another version of the all R-L21+ people (including M222+) has been updated on the Yahoo Group "Files" section at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/

Total # of ht's = 2112
R-M222 = 470
R-L226 = 76
R-L159 = 68
R-L193 = 26
R-P314 =16
R-L144 = 9
R-L21** = 107

72% of the 2112 folks have tested to 67 markers so it behooves you to as well if you haven't.

If you are L21+ be sure join the project. Request those L21+ folks in your surname projects to do the same so they can be included in the various variety and cluster diagrams and analysis. http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join-request.aspx?group=R-L21Plus

Here are the countries by order of highest variance (50 non multi-copy STRs)
France
England
Spain
Ireland
Wales
Germany
Scotland
Scandinavia

The modal for R-L21 All is still the same as R-P312 All which is the Super Western Atlantic Modal. Over 67 markers, the average GD to the modal is 13,  the minimum is 3 and the maximum is 27.
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OConnor
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2011, 02:39:05 PM »

People have touched on population issues like plagues. I'm wondering about the possible deminish of varience in an area like Scandinavia, where 45-50% of the population died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 08:42:13 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


Mike Walsh
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 03:00:54 PM »

Another version of the all R-L21+ people (including M222+) has been updated on the Yahoo Group "Files" section at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/......  Over 67 markers, the average GD to the modal is 13,  the minimum is 3 and the maximum is 27.
I am a little surprised there are those at a greater GD from the modal than I am (21 at 75). Perhaps their ancestors came from even farther afield than Mars. Who is the champ?
The winner is f37495 fRogers from Warwickshire, England.. although I found him in the Ireland DNA project.  I don't trust that he is truly the most distant though as he is 481=29. 481=22 is WAMH.  That's way high but I checked on the FTDNA screen and that is what it is.  He actually is GD=28 from WAMH but I don't trust that as 481 almost appears to be a multi-step jump here.

At GD=27 is
f32119 Rose

then at GD=26 are:
f55410 Warren
f37828 McNeil
f182444 Ross
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
A.D.
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2011, 08:04:02 AM »

I've always thought plagues must have had the effect of messing up the DNA distribution across. It just seems realistic that it hits areas and devastates them and an area close by may have been effected less. If a plague hits an area I think a lot of people would  simply run, where?. Just as importantly a lot of devastated places were repopulated probably by peoples from many different places both near and far.
I also think this type of thing has gone on from "the beginning" so IE people or any group entering Europe would have been mixed. Alantrowlhands (I Think) has stated this mixed idea for IE before this could be one reason for it. It is also has long been said that many plagues came from SW Asia and the surrounding areas.
I wonder if after an event such as the Black Death we were left with clusters which in time spread out giving us what  we se today. This could be very different to what we would expect from ancient migration routes.     
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Mark Jost
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 12:24:45 PM »

Can you report the variance numbers for countries listed below and do you have the variance for just the L21* have have reported locations by country?

Thanks.


Another version of the all R-L21+ people (including M222+) has been updated on the Yahoo Group "Files" section at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/

Total # of ht's = 2112
R-M222 = 470
R-L226 = 76
R-L159 = 68
R-L193 = 26
R-P314 =16
R-L144 = 9
R-L21** = 107

72% of the 2112 folks have tested to 67 markers so it behooves you to as well if you haven't.

If you are L21+ be sure join the project. Request those L21+ folks in your surname projects to do the same so they can be included in the various variety and cluster diagrams and analysis. http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join-request.aspx?group=R-L21Plus

Here are the countries by order of highest variance (50 non multi-copy STRs)
France
England
Spain
Ireland
Wales
Germany
Scotland
Scandinavia

The modal for R-L21 All is still the same as R-P312 All which is the Super Western Atlantic Modal. Over 67 markers, the average GD to the modal is 13,  the minimum is 3 and the maximum is 27.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2011, 01:45:42 PM »

Can you report the variance numbers for countries listed below and do you have the variance for just the L21* have have reported locations by country?
Thanks.
Another version of the all R-L21+ people (including M222+) has been updated on the Yahoo Group "Files" section at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/
Yes, but I think thee province (Leinster, Munster, etc.) or region (NW England, Yorkshire and Humbria, etc.) will give us larger samples.  Definitely on the continent we don't have enough to do any decent stats at the department/county type of level.

Actually anybody can do it themselve in the R-L21 haplotypes spreadsheet by filtering on column headings.  It was tedious but I tried to reformat the origin information into a Country, Province/Region, County/Shire/Department, Town/City consistent format.  You can use the autofilter (column heading drop) customer option for "contains" to find just "Munster" or just "Co. Kerry".

I'm updating the file now with better more consistent SNP info which will help has new SNP testing comes in. I've also just run through the major hg and geographic projects so I've added another 100 or so haplotypes.  I'll have an update in a week or so.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 02:19:20 PM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 09:30:05 AM »

Thanks Mike. I am looking foward to your new refined spreadsheet that is due out.

I hope you have found some additional 67 continential haplotypes from Denmark, East Cont Europe, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, and Switzerland. There sure is a shortage from these areas.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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