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Author Topic: The "Boy with the Amber Necklace",  (Read 882 times)
OConnor
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« on: September 28, 2010, 09:28:08 PM »


Chemical tests on teeth from an ancient burial near Stonehenge indicate that the person in the grave grew up around the Mediterranean Sea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11421593
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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eochaidh
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 11:18:35 PM »

I think this is an example of genetics moving without archaeological evidence. A couple of years ago I wrote about the movement of "families" rather than the movement of "cultures". A family, or group of families, can move without there being much, if any, archaeological evidence.

It would seem to me that if in two well known cases, bodies are found that are presumed to have come from the Alpine region and the Mediterranean, that families could have also moved about in the Bay of Biscay area and the Isles.

Basic point; genetics can be moved in small groups without evidence, as well as in massive cultural moves that leave large amounts of evidence. I think this is greatly overlooked.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 03:43:45 PM »

what strikes me more than any particular origin is that these high status beaker and other Bronze Age burials are so often from someone who has moved within their lifetime.  There seems no real pattern of direction, just a lot of mobility. Clearly that is not a random selection of people of the time.  Nor should we have expected these were ordinary people because these famous burials like Amesbury etc are clearly high status people.  It may be that only the pan-European mobile elite people got these wealthy burials and that this elite was based on mobility and trade.  The beaker people have been suspected by some to be related to trading and metals.  However, I do not for one moment think that they were typical ordinary locals.  

It still requires a leap of imagination to see an ultra mobile small elite as the founders of a chunk of the population as big as R1b1b2.  Certainly the picture of the south-east to west direction of spread of R1b1b2 in the recent Myres et all paper and by hobbiests working with variance is radically different from the south-west to north and east direction of spread indicated by the radiocarbon dating of the beaker culture. In fact they are pretty well opposites.  I know models can be put to try and square that circle but a lot of evidence would have to be found before I would feel that R1b1b2 and beaker culture are anything other than a total mismatch.  
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 03:49:31 PM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
A.D.
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2010, 05:20:14 PM »

Isn't possable the same range of movement happened along the riners and `trackways' of  Europe and who's to say some didn't return from where they came.
could these have been regular trade routes?
We are getjng more evidence of greater movement than was previously thought.
I put an idea on the ┬Čking Tut thread check it out  see if it holds water. 
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IALEM
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 06:39:07 AM »

Elites movement have been known for a long time in Archaeology, at least since the Tumulus culture there is a panEurropean high class panoply including war chariots and Bronze tripods from Micenas to Scandinavia, as has been noted by K Kristiansen.
Those travels are related more to prestige and intiatic used rather than trade, as Anthropologic studies have shown.
It would be more interesting to test average graves if we want to know about substantial migrations
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MDKA Lope de Arri├žabalaga, born c. 1390 in Azcoitia, Basque Country

A.D.
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 02:47:18 PM »

If only we could get more DNA and isotope data from archeoleagy we could map out compare the differences.
I think it would give us  far better ideas on the everythng, but it's just not happening enough

 
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