World Families Forums - The quest for I*

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Maliclavelli
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« on: September 09, 2010, 04:17:03 AM »

Ken Nordtvedt has recently posted this letter to Rootsweb:

“The huge European y haplogroup I1 seems to have a TMRCA of only about 4500 years. Yet, our best present knowledge is that the y tree branch line leading to the I1 founder parted ways from the rest of the haplogroup I tree over 20,000 years ago. We have no evidence right now of any intermediate branches coming off this pre-I1 ancestral line and reaching the present --- a "barren" 16,000 year interval of a branch line hovering on the edge of extinction.
The challenge is to find the haplotype today with the greatest GD or variance as measured from the modal I1 haplotype --- about as good a candidate as we have for the I1 MRCA's founding haplotype. This haplotype must be S31- but M170+; in other words I(xI2) This does not guarantee the haplotype will then be a pre-I1 branch from the ancestral line to I1, it could be an I* haplotype instead. But such a haplotype, I(xI2), could be tested for a number of the many, many snps we have right now which we know are spread randomly along that 16,000 year line. If it is positive for any of them, it qualifies.
Probably some rule is needed to exclude major mutational jumps in which some STR added or lost a large number of repeats in one process. I have not figured out yet how to state such a rule.
Since every haplotype in our databases is not snp tested (actually, most are not), I'd suggest only considering haplotypes with DYS455 = 8 (and maybe 7 and 9) at first. But look out for haplotypes from an African haplogroup which also has 8 at DYs455; I think some supplementary filter will also be needed.
Do you have a candidate haplotype for this search?”

As many haven’t yet accepted that mutations happen mostly around the modal and sometime a subclade preserves as modal a mutation going for the tangent, I think that for this quest someone should read (or read again) The purloined letter of E. A. Poe: sometime what we are looking for is under our eyes.
I suppose that, if some I* does exist somewhere, it could hide itself among the majority of the others, being pretty similar. For finding it Ken should change himself in a new Sisyphus: to test one by one all the I by the SNPs at his disposal.
I permit to counsel him to begin with Italians: first because they are few and second because if somewhere there is a I* probably it is in Italy. I suggest for beginning V2A7H: Alaimo, from Assoro, Enna, Sicily, Italy.
If someone doesn’t like Italians, could begin with D3KW3, EEMGW, FSFAZ, M9CEW, T2MRQ, W33XF, WXPCB…



« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 04:18:36 AM by Maliclavelli » Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

red66charger
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 06:29:59 PM »

Hello,
I just registered here after reading the post above.  I am new to Family Tree DNA and quite frankly, understand very little of all of this!  However, if I am reading my Y-DNA results correctly, my DYS455 number is 8.  I am in the I1 Haplogroup.  To be clear, my Panel 2, 16 Marker is DYS#455.  Below that is the Alleles with the number 8.

As I mentioned, I really don't know what this all means, including the post above in which I responded.  I'm replying just in case my numbers are what is being sought and perhaps it is a rare find.  I understand Y-DNA is paternal, but I should note that my maternal grandfather was born in Sicily.

My reason for getting my DNA tested was to see if I am descended from a very early pioneer to the American colonies.  I've been ruled out from that lineage and am pretty much "floating in the breeze" here!  :-)   Let me know if I have responded incorrectly as I am very new to this.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 01:19:49 AM »

Of course your Y has nothing to do with your maternal grandfather from Sicily. From Sicily is your mt if also your maternal grandmother was from there.
If you send me your Y values (or your ySearch ID), I could say something to you, but Ken Nordtvedt could say much more.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Linda Lea Christ
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 08:29:24 PM »

Not sure what makes an I*.
My 1st cousin is I1. I have not found any further subclades for us.
Positive for M170C;
(M168T - non-African SNP, said to be Eurasian Adam);
(M89T - middle east F haplogroup mutated about 45,000 yrs ago;) and
(SRY10831.1G- said to be R1a)
Have had 91 STR Loci tested with Genebase.com.
Found matches with Ashkenazi Jews and Levite DNA or R1a1.
The 9-10th century Varangian warrior elite/nobility leader Rurik seems to have 2 major lines N1C1a and R1a. Rurik's grave is in old Uppsala, Sweden.
(Our great grand mother and great grandfather came from Sweden. Great grandpa John Oscar Harlin born 1852 is from Stockholm and his wife Louisa Anderson is from Uppsala, but her mother or grandmother was French. These would be the parents of our grandmother Desederia Eve Harlin-Christ.)
We have a Cohanim Modal Haplotype match with DYA19/394=14;DYS391=10; and DYS292=11.
This Christ line comes from John Christ, our paternal great grandfather who was German or possibly Danish born about 1864.
R1b match- DYS393/395=13
Found 19 matches with Alexander Hamilton.
Our Y Search.com numbers are found with "KCV4E"
Looking for any information at all about our DNA numbers.
Linda Lea Christ
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Linda Lea Christ
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 08:37:15 PM »

We are DYS 455=8 for KCV4E at Y Search.com. in case it matters.
LLC
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Dan Holcombe
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 05:44:39 AM »

I1 snp 455 is 8  ysearch BQHME
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