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Author Topic: Austrian R-L21  (Read 1474 times)
rms2
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« on: June 10, 2010, 08:25:20 PM »

I hesitate to mention this, but there is at least one Austrian R-L21 in FTDNA's database now, and Austria is a grossly under-tested country.

I spotted him on a Haplotree/My Matches page.

I am trying to get FTDNA to contact him and invite him to join the R-L21 Plus Project.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 10:26:52 AM »

I hesitate to mention this, but there is at least one Austrian R-L21 in FTDNA's database now, and Austria is a grossly under-tested country.

I spotted him on a Haplotree/My Matches page.

I am trying to get FTDNA to contact him and invite him to join the R-L21 Plus Project.
Is there an Austrian FTDNA project or a surname project I could look through to see if we could find his haplotype and kit?

That's part of the reason I created the spreadsheet... to copy in haplotypes from people who won't join the L21 Plus project or who aren't in FTDNA.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
rms2
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 12:53:39 PM »

I hesitate to mention this, but there is at least one Austrian R-L21 in FTDNA's database now, and Austria is a grossly under-tested country.

I spotted him on a Haplotree/My Matches page.

I am trying to get FTDNA to contact him and invite him to join the R-L21 Plus Project.
Is there an Austrian FTDNA project or a surname project I could look through to see if we could find his haplotype and kit?

That's part of the reason I created the spreadsheet... to copy in haplotypes from people who won't join the L21 Plus project or who aren't in FTDNA.

No, I tried looking for an Austrian DNA Project, but there isn't one I could find. And I looked in the Germany Project and couldn't find any new R-L21s. I don't know his name.

I just spotted this guy on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of a couple of members. I suppose we could triangulate and decipher his first 12 markers based on his appearance at varying genetic distances on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of various members.

This morning Ashley Coursey of FTDNA sent him an email on our behalf inviting him to join the R-L21 Plus Project.

Let's hope he joins.
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Jdean
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 04:19:20 PM »


I just spotted this guy on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of a couple of members. I suppose we could triangulate and decipher his first 12 markers based on his appearance at varying genetic distances on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of various members.


At a guess I'd say he matches the first 12 values of kit no. 115893 in the R-L21 project.
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2010, 05:55:47 PM »

Got to agree that in the classic later 20th century west-east divide of Europe, there cannot be a country as badly sampled as Austria.  It is like a blank for everything.  SE Germany is similar.  Perhaps the very land locked areas did not feature much American migration.  To me that means that absence means nothing but any hit at all there is highly significant.  I understand that one study of part of Austria found a lot of U106 but I do not know much more about the R1b1b2 there.  L21 seems to have a decent presence on the German Main, a river that leads from the Middle Rhine to the Danube so I would be surprised if we do not see more L21 on the Danube. 
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rms2
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2010, 07:08:09 PM »


I just spotted this guy on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of a couple of members. I suppose we could triangulate and decipher his first 12 markers based on his appearance at varying genetic distances on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of various members.


At a guess I'd say he matches the first 12 values of kit no. 115893 in the R-L21 project.

Nope. The Austrian shows up as two off that one at 12 markers.
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rms2
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2010, 07:11:55 PM »

Got to agree that in the classic later 20th century west-east divide of Europe, there cannot be a country as badly sampled as Austria.  It is like a blank for everything.  SE Germany is similar.  Perhaps the very land locked areas did not feature much American migration.  To me that means that absence means nothing but any hit at all there is highly significant.  I understand that one study of part of Austria found a lot of U106 but I do not know much more about the R1b1b2 there.  L21 seems to have a decent presence on the German Main, a river that leads from the Middle Rhine to the Danube so I would be surprised if we do not see more L21 on the Danube. 

The most distant ancestor of one of our German members, Waibel, came from Bad Hindelang in Bavaria, which is right on the Austrian border.

Then there is our Croatian, Loncaric, whose ancestor came from near Zagreb, not too far south of Austria.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2010, 07:55:02 PM »

It seems reasonably well established that the Rhine is pretty decent for L21 from south Holland to Switzerland.  However, it does not seem likely that hobby testing is going to be strong enough along the Danube to give us much of an idea of how much L21 is there and where.  I think it likely reasonably represented on the Danube's head waters in Germany but it would be so useful to know if it extends east into Austria and Hungary to any degree. 
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 08:09:21 PM »

Rich makes a good point with the Croatian and the new Austrian L21. There could be a cadre around that part of Europe, but we have yet to know due to sampling trends.

Good work on this, Rich. This is what I look forward to seeing. I think you would agree that some "digging" is absolutely necessary.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 08:20:46 PM »

Rich makes a good point with the Croatian and the new Austrian L21. There could be a cadre around that part of Europe, but we have yet to know due to sampling trends.

Good work on this, Rich. This is what I look forward to seeing. I think you would agree that some "digging" is absolutely necessary.

Digging is precisely what I do (but Alan is the professional with the trowel!).
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Jdean
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 08:30:43 PM »


I just spotted this guy on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of a couple of members. I suppose we could triangulate and decipher his first 12 markers based on his appearance at varying genetic distances on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of various members.


At a guess I'd say he matches the first 12 values of kit no. 115893 in the R-L21 project.

Nope. The Austrian shows up as two off that one at 12 markers.

Good job I said it was a guess, I was quite sure of that as well, ho hum

After testing a good few more haplotypes I'll have another go.

How about kit no. 53712 ??

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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 08:52:18 PM »


I just spotted this guy on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of a couple of members. I suppose we could triangulate and decipher his first 12 markers based on his appearance at varying genetic distances on the Haplotree/My Matches pages of various members.


At a guess I'd say he matches the first 12 values of kit no. 115893 in the R-L21 project.

Nope. The Austrian shows up as two off that one at 12 markers.

Good job I said it was a guess, I was quite sure of that as well, ho hum

After testing a good few more haplotypes I'll have another go.

How about kit no. 53712 ??



He's two off that one at 12 markers, as well.
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rms2
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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 11:47:22 AM »

I'm guessing this guy is our mysterious Austrian R-L21. ;-)
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OConnor
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 09:00:10 PM »

Perhaps we should start a Project for Austria?

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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 09:10:08 PM »

Perhaps we should start a Project for Austria?

Not a bad idea, but I've got too many going on now.

I'd like to see one for Croatia, too.
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rms2
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 03:55:10 PM »

Well, our Austrian still hasn't joined up, so I guess he's not going to. That is what happened with our Greek and with a number of others, as well.

Maybe I should just stick a placemark in Vienna and another in Athens on the R-L21 European Continent Map to represent what we know is out there?
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 04:32:15 PM »

Well, our Austrian still hasn't joined up, so I guess he's not going to. That is what happened with our Greek and with a number of others, as well.

Maybe I should just stick a placemark in Vienna and another in Athens on the R-L21 European Continent Map to represent what we know is out there?

I think that would be a good idea and would suggest similar is done for others elsewhere who appear to have a solid old world pedegree but will not join. I think you also mentioned some Dutch, Danish etc who are similar. 
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 06:00:46 PM »

Well, our Austrian still hasn't joined up, so I guess he's not going to. That is what happened with our Greek and with a number of others, as well.

Maybe I should just stick a placemark in Vienna and another in Athens on the R-L21 European Continent Map to represent what we know is out there?
If you can deduce his haplotype then I'd add him, at least I will on the spreadsheet.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
rms2
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« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2010, 08:38:49 AM »

Well, our Austrian still hasn't joined up, so I guess he's not going to. That is what happened with our Greek and with a number of others, as well.

Maybe I should just stick a placemark in Vienna and another in Athens on the R-L21 European Continent Map to represent what we know is out there?
If you can deduce his haplotype then I'd add him, at least I will on the spreadsheet.

I discovered that he matches one of our Germans (makes sense, right?), Althoff, kit E9328, exactly at 12 markers, so here is the haplotype:

13  24  14  11  11  14  12  12  12  14  13  30
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