New SNP for Scandinavian P312*

[rms2]

I emailed all those potential R-L238 guys, but I haven't heard from any of them yet, unfortunately. I also posted on Rootsweb about L238 today.

Too bad the recent YCC Tree update missed L238. Guess we wait for the next one.

[GoldenHind]

I emailed all those potential R-L238 guys, but I haven't heard from any of them yet, unfortunately. I also posted on Rootsweb about L238 today.

Too bad the recent YCC Tree update missed L238. Guess we wait for the next one.

At least it has been recognized in the ISOGG tree.

[rms2]

The nice thing about the YCC updates is that FTDNA goes into Ysearch and updates the y haplogroup designators of the men who have tested positive for the various SNPs.

You pick up a lot of folks you didn't know about that way.

[rms2]

There's a new R-L238 today: Fletcher, kit 102949, Ysearch N4TAY, ancestry in England.

[GoldenHind]

There's a new R-L238 today: Fletcher, kit 102949, Ysearch N4TAY, ancestry in England.

Yes, it's the first positive L238 result for some time. His EKA is from Sheerness, on the Isle of Sheppey in Kent. I believe this was a Viking base at the time of Alred the Great, but this could be a coincidence.

[rms2]

Okay, we finally have another likely L238 candidate testing for it: Lundberg, kit 98393, with ancestry in Sweden (Ysearch Y4PWJ).

Hopefully, he'll get a positive result.

[GoldenHind]

Okay, we finally have another likely L238 candidate testing for it: Lundberg, kit 98393, with ancestry in Sweden (Ysearch Y4PWJ).

Hopefully, he'll get a positive result.

If he turns out negative, I'll eat my hat.

[rms2]

There's a new R-L238 this morning: Starkey, kit N75889 (no Ysearch entry yet). He's in the R-P312 and Subclades Project. He cannot get his line past Texas in 1858 and is not sure whether the surname was originally Stark or Starkey.

His first 12 markers are consistent with Ken Nordtvedt's R1b-Norse cluster. He has 37 on order, so we'll see how the rest fall into place. That won't get us 446 or 441, though, but Starkey is probably a member of the cluster, given his L238+ result.

Not to attempt to press all L238 results into a preconceived template or anything, but the surname Starkey has at its root the word Stark, which is an old Germanic word meaning "strong" or "firm". There was, of course, a legendary Norse warrior by the name of Starkad (Old Norse: Starkaðr or Störkuðr), so the surname Starkey is not without possible Norse roots.

[rms2]

I noticed that kits N46632, N81251, N70239, and 60606 in the Norway DNA Project, and kits 2320, N24210, 161851, 170725, 47779, and 10127 in the Scandinavian Y-DNA Project either appear to fit the R1b-Norse Cluster or are reasonably close. We have some general fund money in the R-P312 and Subclades Project, so I wrote the admins of the Norway and Scandinavian Projects to try to recruit the owners of those kits for L238 testing.

We'll see who goes for it. Hopefully, they all will.

[rms2]

I noticed that kits N46632, N81251, N70239, and 60606 in the Norway DNA Project, and kits 2320, N24210, 161851, 170725, 47779, and 10127 in the Scandinavian Y-DNA Project either appear to fit the R1b-Norse Cluster or are reasonably close. We have some general fund money in the R-P312 and Subclades Project, so I wrote the admins of the Norway and Scandinavian Projects to try to recruit the owners of those kits for L238 testing.

We'll see who goes for it. Hopefully, they all will.

That was quick!

We've already had one accept the offer: Pedersen, kit N81251, from Norway (Ysearch UR3SR).

He has just 37 markers right now but is awaiting a 67-marker upgrade.

The odds that he is L238+ look pretty good. His best match is a 34/37 with Gyllengahm of Sweden, who has already tested L238+.

[GoldenHind]

I noticed that kits N46632, N81251, N70239, and 60606 in the Norway DNA Project, and kits 2320, N24210, 161851, 170725, 47779, and 10127 in the Scandinavian Y-DNA Project either appear to fit the R1b-Norse Cluster or are reasonably close. We have some general fund money in the R-P312 and Subclades Project, so I wrote the admins of the Norway and Scandinavian Projects to try to recruit the owners of those kits for L238 testing.

We'll see who goes for it. Hopefully, they all will.

That was quick!

We've already had one accept the offer: Pedersen, kit N81251, from Norway (Ysearch UR3SR).

He has just 37 markers right now but is awaiting a 67-marker upgrade.

The odds that he is L238+ look pretty good. His best match is a 34/37 with Gyllengahm of Sweden, who has already tested L238+.

Excellent work, Rich. I've identified a number of individuals on Ysearch whom I have little doubt would test positive for L238, but I've never looked at the projects you mentioned. Here are some of the ones I found: 5T6QZ (Norway), JNQVU (Norway), R6GKY (Finland), JFGYS (Norway), Y4PWJ (Sweden), PH6HF (Norway), 48YPA (Norway), K3JVF (Norway), PRRYG (Norway), and G56YU (Norway). Even though most of those found to be L238+ at the moment are from either England or Sweden, I have reason to believe the subclade is concentrated in Norway. Since I found these on Ysearch, I don't know their FTDNA kit numbers, but probably some of them will be the same as those you have identified. My guess is that with those who only have tested 12 markers, anyone from Scandinavia with 385a/b=11,13 and 439=11 is probably going to be L238+.

[rms2]

Two more have agreed to be tested for L238: Tertnes, kit N46632 (no Ysearch that I can find yet), and Bentsen, kit N2658, Ysearch JNQVU. Both are Norwegian.

Neither of them has more than 12 markers, but it's worth a shot.

I'll look into those Ysearch numbers as soon as I can, Robert (Bentsen's was one of the ones you mentioned above). It probably won't be this evening, though.

Anne Berge of the Norway DNA Project sent out the offer letter in Norwegian, and that appears to be helping, because most of these guys are apparently actual Norwegian citizens.

[GoldenHind]

Two more have agreed to be tested for L238: Tertnes, kit N46632 (no Ysearch that I can find yet), and Bentsen, kit N2658, Ysearch JNQVU. Both are Norwegian.

Neither of them has more than 12 markers, but it's worth a shot.

I'll look into those Ysearch numbers as soon as I can, Robert (Bentsen's was one of the ones you mentioned above). It probably won't be this evening, though.

Anne Berge of the Norway DNA Project sent out the offer letter in Norwegian, and that appears to be helping, because most of these guys are apparently actual Norwegian citizens.

I may be able to save you some work.

Bentsen is on my list, even though he only has 12 markers. He is in the P312 project. I think he has a good shot at positive results.

I checked some of my notes and found these two guys also in the P312 project. 5T6QZ on my list above is kit 148371, and he is a virtual certainty. I think he is in Norway, so perhaps having him contacted in Norwegian and/or the offer of a free test will finally get him to order it. Also in the project is R6GJY (Finland), kit 106356. He has 10,14 at 385a/b instead of 11,13, but otherwise he matches Nordtvedt's markers. I think there is a better than 50/50 chance he would test positive. I believe he is in the US.

Finally I believe Y4PWJ of Sweden is kit 98393, and though I don't think he is in the P312 project, he is another slam dunk in my opinion. I believe he's an American. Maybe an offer of a free test would tempt him.

[rms2]

Two more have agreed to be tested for L238: Tertnes, kit N46632 (no Ysearch that I can find yet), and Bentsen, kit N2658, Ysearch JNQVU. Both are Norwegian.

Neither of them has more than 12 markers, but it's worth a shot.

I'll look into those Ysearch numbers as soon as I can, Robert (Bentsen's was one of the ones you mentioned above). It probably won't be this evening, though.

Anne Berge of the Norway DNA Project sent out the offer letter in Norwegian, and that appears to be helping, because most of these guys are apparently actual Norwegian citizens.

I may be able to save you some work.

Bentsen is on my list, even though he only has 12 markers. He is in the P312 project. I think he has a good shot at positive results.

I checked some of my notes and found these two guys also in the P312 project. 5T6QZ on my list above is kit 148371, and he is a virtual certainty. I think he is in Norway, so perhaps having him contacted in Norwegian and/or the offer of a free test will finally get him to order it. Also in the project is R6GJY (Finland), kit 106356. He has 10,14 at 385a/b instead of 11,13, but otherwise he matches Nordtvedt's markers. I think there is a better than 50/50 chance he would test positive. I believe he is in the US.

Finally I believe Y4PWJ of Sweden is kit 98393, and though I don't think he is in the P312 project, he is another slam dunk in my opinion. I believe he's an American. Maybe an offer of a free test would tempt him.

Thanks, Robert. Y4PWJ is Lundberg, and he is currently awaiting his L238 result.

I have written 5T6QZ and offered him the test. I just finished writing to R6GJY.

We have another Norwegian who has agreed to test for L238: Michaelsen. I am just waiting for Anne Berge to discover his email and join him to the R-P312 and Subclades Project so that I will have his kit number. He has one of those kits I mentioned above, but I can't tell which one for sure, since modern Scandinavian names don't usually match the ancestral ones.

[rms2]

Okay, Michaelsen is in and his L238 test is ordered. He is kit N70239 (no Ysearch yet). Michaelsen (ancestral surname Olsen) has 385=13-13, but that's probably a RecLoH from an earlier 11-13. He has 439=11, but that's as far as we get with the R1b-Norse markers, since he has just 12 markers total.

[A.D.]

Not really on topic but recently saw a BBC programme that said 80% of the female population in Iceland was of Irish decent mtDNA. and 100% of males were of Norse origin.

[GoldenHind]

Not really on topic but recently saw a BBC programme that said 80% of the female population in Iceland was of Irish decent mtDNA. and 100% of males were of Norse origin.

If they have some way of isolating Norse origin Ydna, I wish they would let us in on it.

[rms2]

The fourth and last of the Norwegians I was trying to recruit for L238 testing has accepted and joined the R-P312 and Subclades Project: Andresen, kit 60606 (no Ysearch yet). He's the fifth if you count Bentsen, but Bentsen was already in the R-P312 and Subclades Project, in the R-P312* Scandinavia category.

I haven't heard from any of the group from the Scandinavian Y-DNA Project yet. There were six of them there.

As of now, we have six Scandinavians awaiting L238 test results: five Norwegians and one Swede.

[GoldenHind]

The fourth and last of the Norwegians I was trying to recruit for L238 testing has accepted and joined the R-P312 and Subclades Project: Andresen, kit 60606 (no Ysearch yet). He's the fifth if you count Bentsen, but Bentsen was already in the R-P312 and Subclades Project, in the R-P312* Scandinavia category.

I haven't heard from any of the group from the Scandinavian Y-DNA Project yet. There were six of them there.

As of now, we have six Scandinavians awaiting L238 test results: five Norwegians and one Swede.

Thanks for the excellent work.

[rms2]

We've got yet another Norwegian testing for L238 now: Hatvik, kit 148471, Ysearch 5T6QZ. He was one I had written to myself, although he does also belong to the Norway Project.

That gives us 7 Scandinavians awaiting L238 results. It would be neat if all 7 were L238+.

[GoldenHind]

We've got yet another Norwegian testing for L238 now: Hatvik, kit 148471, Ysearch 5T6QZ. He was one I had written to myself, although he does also belong to the Norway Project.

That gives us 7 Scandinavians awaiting L238 results. It would be neat if all 7 were L238+.

Congratulations on landing him. He was one of the first ones I identified as highly likely to be L238 positive.

One difficulty in assessing candidates is almost no one has tested for DYS441, where 14 (modal is 13) is a very strong indicator, when combined with the other distinctive off-modals for this group, of L238 positive status. It is available by special order from FTDNA, but very few have bothered ordering it. I don't know if 441 is included in the new 111 marker tests there.

My guess is that at least six of these seven will get positive results, and seven for seven wouldn't surprise me.

[rms2]

It's too bad getting the results takes so long.

[GoldenHind]

It's too bad getting the results takes so long.

I wouldn't wait on the edge of my chair. I just checked the status of pending L238 orders at FTDNA and there were about 10 that were due in March and a few more due in April. These are now 4-5 months overdue.

[rms2]

It's too bad getting the results takes so long.

I wouldn't wait on the edge of my chair. I just checked the status of pending L238 orders at FTDNA and there were about 10 that were due in March and a few more due in April. These are now 4-5 months overdue.

Oh, crap!

Maybe now that they have a few more they can process all of them. :-O

[authun]

Not really on topic but recently saw a BBC programme that said 80% of the female population in Iceland was of Irish decent mtDNA. and 100% of males were of Norse origin.

The BBC lost some of the detail if it is based on Goodacre et al's 'Genetic evidence for a family-based Scandinavian settlement of Shetland and Orkney during the Viking periods'. But the differences between the female and celtic populations is broadly correct.

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v95/n2/pdf/6800661a.pdf

cheers
authun