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OConnor
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« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2011, 06:33:03 PM »

Apparently this study singles out R1a as Viking.
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve/
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 06:33:32 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #101 on: January 24, 2011, 08:28:27 PM »

The idea that the Vikings were all HG I is simply nonsense.  R1b is the largest haplogroup in Denmark, and though outnumbered by HG I in Norway and Sweden, it still represents about a quarter or a fifth of the population in those countries. A study of Ydna in Swden a few yaers ago (I started a thread on the subject on this forum) showed that R1b outnumbers HG I in two of the seven Swedish provinces sampled. Although there are a few idiots who argue that all of R1b is Scandinavia is the result of Viking slaves, there is no reason to believe that the haplogroup composition in Scandinavia today is radically different from a thousand years ago.

Actually, I believe R1b1b2 is about equal to I and R1a in Norway, each one accounting for about a third of the male population. Sweden is the y-hap I stronghold.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 08:28:50 PM by rms2 » Logged

Jdean
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« Reply #102 on: January 24, 2011, 08:46:55 PM »

Apparently this study singles out R1a as Viking.
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve/

I get the feeling that R1a was singled out as an identifying marker of Viking presence rather than being 'the' Viking marker, if R1a is high than expected ergo there must have been Vikings in the area.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #103 on: January 25, 2011, 10:10:39 AM »

Apparently this study singles out R1a as Viking.
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve/

I get the feeling that R1a was singled out as an identifying marker of Viking presence rather than being 'the' Viking marker, if R1a is high than expected ergo there must have been Vikings in the area.
Yes, most men in Scandinavia, at least today, are not R1a, although it has a significant presence.  I think it's value is that it is diagnostic for detecting where Scandinavians expanded to since it is not prominent across Western Europe.  

However, I think there should be caution in assuming that 1) just because someone is R1a, he is a descendant of a Viking or that 2) Vikings were only R1a. #2 definitely isn't true, there certainly Hg I Vikings and probably R1b1b2 Vikings as well, perhaps some Hg N.  #1 may not be true because of possible early expansions of R1a.

R1a is scattered thinly across France and it was found in the Corded Ware culture in Germany, near the Czech Republic in ancient DNA - long before the Vikings.  R1a could have also spread through Western Europe in a early or mid Neolithic expansion.

"Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a" by Underhill et al.
Quote from: Underhill
Haplogroup R1a1a7-M458 diversity and frequency are highest in river basins known to be associated with several early and late Neolithic cultures... Beyond its spread in the Central European river basins, the LBK extended around the northern Carpathians into the steppe zone of Ukraine and participated in the establishment of the Cris¸culture.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 10:14:43 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
rms2
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« Reply #104 on: June 21, 2011, 08:45:48 PM »

There's a new Norwegian R-L21 in the R-L21 Plus Project this evening: ancestral surname Gjon, Ysearch 2DP3C.

I don't know exactly where in Norway his ancestor came from yet. His only decent match is to another R-L21 Norwegian.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:50:36 PM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #105 on: June 23, 2011, 06:13:44 PM »

There's a new Norwegian R-L21 in the R-L21 Plus Project this evening: ancestral surname Gjon, Ysearch 2DP3C.

I don't know exactly where in Norway his ancestor came from yet. His only decent match is to another R-L21 Norwegian.

The ancestral surname has been updated to Aase, and the y-dna ancestor came from the island of Dysvikholmen in the Hardangerfjord.
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OConnor
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« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2011, 06:32:09 PM »

A possible Norse burial ground has been found in Rush, North Dublin.
DNA testing would be very interesting.


http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/workers-find-ancient-burial-ground-2800228.html
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #107 on: June 28, 2011, 07:27:43 PM »

It would be neat if they would just routinely start trying to get some y-dna and mtDNA (at least) from the remains uncovered at archaeological digs. It should just be standard operating procedure.
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OConnor
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« Reply #108 on: July 04, 2011, 09:52:19 PM »

It would be a good marketing tool for a company like Family Tree.
I think they should get in the thick of ancient dna testing.

Here is some recently found Norse treasure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-13987176
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2011, 08:28:03 PM »

Another new Norwegian R-L21 this evening: ancestral surname Gausel, Ysearch NAV8R, from near Stavanger.

His only decent matches are two other Norwegians, both of whom are 4 away at 37 markers.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 08:29:56 PM by rms2 » Logged

OConnor
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« Reply #110 on: July 20, 2011, 06:36:28 PM »

That's great news Rich.

On another note
My maternal ancestor was from the Isle of Skye Scotland, haplo group H3.
I have found a some H3 in the Finland Project. Maybe my mt ancestors were Viking Women? :))

Invasion of the Viking women unearthed
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/2011/07/invasion-of-the-viking-women-unearthed/1
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2011, 02:42:33 PM »

We added a new Danish R-L21 today: ancestral surname Larsen, Ysearch GDEUW, kit 208799. He tested L21+ with 23andMe.
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A.D.
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« Reply #112 on: September 09, 2011, 09:54:55 PM »

It would be neat if they would just routinely start trying to get some y-dna and mtDNA (at least) from the remains uncovered at archaeological digs. It should just be standard operating procedure.

That and isotope testing telling us where they came from, ( i think carbon dating is done fairly routinely) it makes sense to do it and  set up a data base. it must be too expensive is the only reason i can think of for it not being done already.

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OConnor
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« Reply #113 on: September 20, 2011, 07:03:18 AM »

Although at a time before R-L21, I thought I'd post this link to a Mesolithic find  of heads/skulls mounted on wooden stakes in Sweden.
http://www.thelocal.se/36226/20110919/
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 07:04:11 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #114 on: October 04, 2011, 09:09:27 PM »

I am pleased to report that another Swede has tested L21+ today, with his MDKA from Skurup, Sweden.

He joined the L159.2 Project awhile ago, but has also tested L159.2- with his Deep Clade results.

Put another tack on Sweden!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #115 on: October 05, 2011, 03:13:19 PM »

I wonder if he might be Z255+ ??

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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #116 on: October 05, 2011, 07:28:13 PM »

I am pleased to report that another Swede has tested L21+ today, with his MDKA from Skurup, Sweden.

He joined the L159.2 Project awhile ago, but has also tested L159.2- with his Deep Clade results.

Put another tack on Sweden!

Can you get him to join the R-L21 Plus Project?

I don't even know who he is.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #117 on: October 05, 2011, 07:45:06 PM »

I am pleased to report that another Swede has tested L21+ today, with his MDKA from Skurup, Sweden.

He joined the L159.2 Project awhile ago, but has also tested L159.2- with his Deep Clade results.

Put another tack on Sweden!

Can you get him to join the R-L21 Plus Project?

I don't even know who he is.

You got it.

Hopefully, you will be acquainted soon enough!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



NealtheRed
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« Reply #118 on: October 05, 2011, 07:47:29 PM »

I wonder if he might be Z255+ ??



Well, my initial prognosis was based on a rudimentary understanding of the Irish Sea Modal, and I was essentially recruiting folks who only matched one or two of the key markers.

Who knows, Mike? Maybe it is something for Mr. Linder to consider in the near future.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #119 on: October 06, 2011, 04:18:28 PM »

There is Z255 in Norway, by way of the ones who are  L159.2+
If indeed all R-L159 are Z255+

I don't know if there are any L144+ people in Norway. Perhaps I'll have a look around some projects later. 

 
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #120 on: October 06, 2011, 07:32:03 PM »

I am pleased to report that another Swede has tested L21+ today, with his MDKA from Skurup, Sweden.

He joined the L159.2 Project awhile ago, but has also tested L159.2- with his Deep Clade results.

Put another tack on Sweden!

Can you get him to join the R-L21 Plus Project?

I don't even know who he is.

You got it.

Hopefully, you will be acquainted soon enough!

Thanks, Neal. He joined today.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #121 on: October 07, 2011, 06:11:22 PM »

Excellent!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


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« Reply #122 on: October 08, 2011, 10:45:23 AM »

There is Z255 in Norway, by way of the ones who are  L159.2+
If indeed all R-L159 are Z255+

I don't know if there are any L144+ people in Norway. Perhaps I'll have a look around some projects later.  
NealtheRed,
We know that we have L159.2+ non-Irish Sea Modal and the L159.2- 464X=2c2g Irish Sea people. That seems to be unlikely, hence there is a concern about the stability of L159.2.

Given that and the fact I'm aggressive on SNP testing, I think all of the types of L159.2+ people should consider testing for Z255, particularly the non-Irish Sea modal ones and ones that are 464X=3c1g.  The L159.2- Irish Sea people should test for Z255 as well. 

Maybe Z255 will help clarify this.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #123 on: October 08, 2011, 11:20:59 AM »

There is Z255 in Norway, by way of the ones who are  L159.2+
If indeed all R-L159 are Z255+

I don't know if there are any L144+ people in Norway. Perhaps I'll have a look around some projects later.  
NealtheRed,
We know that we have L159.2+ non-Irish Sea Modal and the L159.2- 464X=2c2g Irish Sea people. That seems to be unlikely, hence there is a concern about the stability of L159.2.

Given that and the fact I'm aggressive on SNP testing, I think all of the types of L159.2+ people should consider testing for Z255, particularly the non-Irish Sea modal ones and ones that are 464X=3c1g.  The L159.2- Irish Sea people should test for Z255 as well.  

Maybe Z255 will help clarify this.

I know it is too early since we need Z255 results for our Irish Sea L159.2- men, but I think Z255 has the potential to rectify the differences between those who are L159.2+ and those who are negative.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are some L159.2+ results that could be lab errors (kit #189806 in the L159.2 Project is one), but the majority of the Irish Sea L159.2- folks do have unique differences in their STRs from L159.2+/CCGG men. We still think they branched off just before the L159.2 mutation manifested itself.


But I agree. Our goal is to get these Irish Sea L159.2- men to test for Z255 to connect the dots. Considering L144 is directly downstream as well, I wonder how extensive Z255 is?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 11:22:05 AM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #124 on: October 09, 2011, 07:53:02 AM »

The R-L21 Plus Project has picked up a new Danish member. Interestingly, his most distant known y-dna ancestor had the surname Matrois. I'm no expert on Danish surnames, but that one looks French to me. It's kit 210257, from Nakskov, Denmark, on the island of Nykøbing.
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