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Author Topic: L159.2: Britain to Ireland?  (Read 6055 times)
OConnor
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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2010, 11:01:03 PM »

It would be nice to know the age of L159.2

There will be all kinds of look-a-like L159.2 people.

And some + ones that don't look like it.

I doubt all snp`s downstream of L21 are from the Germany area.
There will be some from the Isles.

And aside from Scandinavia and the Isles you will find L-21 everywhere the Franks were. 


« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 11:53:21 AM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2010, 12:24:25 AM »

Like yourself, O'Connor, your haplotype is not consistent with the Leinster modal but is still L159.2.

I do not think that all downstream SNPs of L21 are "born" in Germany, but it appears that L21 radiates out of southern Germany and northeastern France. I would bet on that area being the birthplace of L21 (France even), based on the data we have now.

L159.2 could be present in multiple countries in northwestern Europe (this could be as a consequence of Celtic, Frankish, or whatever immigration as you said); we need more guys that match the haplotype to test for it.
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OConnor
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 11:05:01 AM »

There has been many questions about the Roman influence, the Viking influence, and others, but the Franks seem to be forgotten. They ruled both sides of the Alps, up to the English Channel.
 

Well it is just caution on my side to question how much genetic influence can be attributed to the Franks 5th - 8th Century.

"The Franks or Frankish people (Latin: Franci or gens Francorum) were a West Germanic tribal confederation first attested in the third century as living north and east of the Lower Rhine River."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks

Frankish Kings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frankish_kings

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2010, 12:08:07 PM »

A caveat I would throw in is that L21 is not found at high frequencies north of the Rhine, so if we are considering the original Frankish homeland we must know what the current distribution of L21 is there.

I know we have not had many tested folks with ancestry from that area, so that matters too. But L21 is present considerably in Scandinavia.
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OConnor
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2010, 01:42:39 PM »

Yes L21 is in Sandinavia.
I'm not referring to Scandinavian L21 as Frankish People.

The quote was north and east of the Lower Rhine.
http://www.rollintl.com/roll/rhine.htm
Not all Franks would be from this one area. They were a confederation.

I'm wondering if any downstream L21 snps  found as far as Italy can be Frankish?
If L21 was hatched in France.


  

« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 01:48:13 PM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2010, 02:16:02 PM »

Another Gaston has just tested CCGG on 464X. The other Gaston in the Leinster group is CCGG and L159.2+.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2010, 02:18:03 PM »

Yes L21 is in Sandinavia.
I'm not referring to Scandinavian L21 as Frankish People.

The quote was north and east of the Lower Rhine.
http://www.rollintl.com/roll/rhine.htm
Not all Franks would be from this one area. They were a confederation.

I'm wondering if any downstream L21 snps  found as far as Italy can be Frankish?
If L21 was hatched in France.


  



Of course, I am sure some could be Frankish. If L21 was in Norway early on in its dispersal, it could easily be in those lands historically connected with the Franks.

I don't think the Franks had any impact on Ireland though. I could be wrong, I suppose.
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OConnor
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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2010, 04:51:17 PM »

I'm sure Ireland, Scotland, and Scandinavia already had a healthy supply of L21 well before 400 AD.

I'm not saying the Franks first brought L21.. I say they may have smeared it around from France to italy during the Dark Ages.
I wondered if that may cloud things when looking for continental beginnings.

It's possible L21 was as far as italy, or beyond.. before the Franks.

I figured tribes in France would have become/joined the Franks.
 

http://www.atlasofworldhistory.com/ENGLISH/C0225.html





 

« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 04:59:37 PM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2010, 05:09:00 PM »

We will surely find out if we have some continentals coming up L159.2+. It depends on how old the mutation is. Like you said, L21 is old enough that it would have existed in the Frankish population.
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OConnor
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« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2010, 10:03:04 PM »

Perhaps the Breton Population could be considered.  
Maybe his ancestor got a job on the south side of the Channel? ;)

I'm not sure when the ccgg mutation happened.

Would ccgg not be down-stream of cccg which is the model for L21 and I have cccg and L159.2+

So I claim the oldest looking L159.2 sequence so far and thats in Ireland.

Both are probably a distance of 45/67 from me.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 10:19:33 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


rms2
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« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2010, 09:24:09 AM »

Mike,

I think your haplotype is actually younger looking than most. The modal for all of P310 at 393 is 13. You have 12 there. You're thinking that is old looking because that is the ancestral value seen in P310- guys (what we used to call HT35).

But you are P310+ (and, of course, P312+ L21+), so your more recent ancestral value is 393=13. Your 393=12 represents a new (and younger) development, a move from 13 back to 12.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 09:24:47 AM by rms2 » Logged

NealtheRed
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« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2010, 11:30:01 AM »

Mike,

I think your haplotype is actually younger looking than most. The modal for all of P310 at 393 is 13. You have 12 there. You're thinking that is old looking because that is the ancestral value seen in P310- guys (what we used to call HT35).

But you are P310+ (and, of course, P312+ L21+), so your more recent ancestral value is 393=13. Your 393=12 represents a new (and younger) development, a move from 13 back to 12.



Thanks for clarifying that for me, Rich. I was also wondering about Mike's haplotype and if it was older or younger. Because of the haplotype's divergence from the Leinster modal, could L159.2 be much older?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 11:30:54 AM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


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OConnor
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« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2010, 02:05:17 PM »

Mike,

I think your haplotype is actually younger looking than most. The modal for all of P310 at 393 is 13. You have 12 there. You're thinking that is old looking because that is the ancestral value seen in P310- guys (what we used to call HT35).

But you are P310+ (and, of course, P312+ L21+), so your more recent ancestral value is 393=13. Your 393=12 represents a new (and younger) development, a move from 13 back to 12.

393=13 to 393=12 is not the all in str sequences.  It's only one mutation, and yes one that is sure to have changed from the L21 model.

But unless the Gastons have a back mutation from 12 to 13, then our common ancestor was before that change.
Distance from them would be  before that mutation occured.
We are about 45/67.

I have other closer like-sequences from s/e Ireland with 393=12, though not tested for L159.2 like a 36/37 Murphy match.


Murphy State: VA/WV, Virginia, USA
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 23 17 15 19 18 37 38 12 12
Murphy, Ireland
12 24 14   11 11 16 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 10 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 13 15 16 18
Murphy, Waterford
13 24 14   11 12 14 12 12 11 14 14 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 15 16 16
USA North carolina
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 16 16
Murphy Ireland12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 16 16
Murphy Alabama
12 23 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 28 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 23 16
Murphy Wexford
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 26 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 11 10 19 23 16 15 19 18 37 40 12 12
Murphy USA
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 13 13 13 29 17
Murphy South carolina
12 24   13 11 10   12 12 13   13 27 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 16 29 15 15 16 16 11 10 19 21 16
Murphy Ireland
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 23 16 15 19 18 37 38 12 12 12

Me
12 24 14   10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 16 16 11 10 19 23 16 15 18 17 38 38 12 12 12 12 11 13 23 10 13 12 12

Murphy Wicklow
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 14 15 16 16 11 11 19 23 16 15 19 17 37 38 12 12
Murphy Tennesee
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 16 16 11 11 19 23 16 15 19 18 38 39 12 12 12

Murphy Newfoundland Canada
12 24 14   11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 16 16 16 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 18 36 37 12 12  
So I doubt my sequence is downstream of the Gastons and their 393=13 and 464 ccgg, along with the rest that make us no better than 45/67



 
 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 04:41:55 PM by OConnor » Logged

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R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2010, 02:39:52 PM »

Thanks for clarifying that for me, Rich. I was also wondering about Mike's haplotype and if it was older or younger. Because of the haplotype's divergence from the Leinster modal, could L159.2 be much older?

Honestly, I have my misgivings about L159.2 and putting too much stock in it. I would feel better about it if Dr. Krahn seemed to have more confidence in it. It could mean something different for guys outside the Leinster group than it does for the guys within it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 03:14:11 PM by rms2 » Logged

OConnor
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« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2010, 04:57:57 PM »

Is it coincidence that NealtherRed's and mine common 47/67 numbers in y-search brings in some other L159 names like a few Beatties?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 04:58:46 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2010, 12:11:22 PM »

Thanks for clarifying that for me, Rich. I was also wondering about Mike's haplotype and if it was older or younger. Because of the haplotype's divergence from the Leinster modal, could L159.2 be much older?

Honestly, I have my misgivings about L159.2 and putting too much stock in it. I would feel better about it if Dr. Krahn seemed to have more confidence in it. It could mean something different for guys outside the Leinster group than it does for the guys within it.

L159.2 is great news for guys who fall into the cluster (includes folks with ancestry outside of Britain as well), which is becoming more numerous! A Ryan just tested CCGG on 464X, by the way, and matches the haplotype.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 12:11:49 PM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


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« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2010, 08:26:31 PM »

Thanks for clarifying that for me, Rich. I was also wondering about Mike's haplotype and if it was older or younger. Because of the haplotype's divergence from the Leinster modal, could L159.2 be much older?

Honestly, I have my misgivings about L159.2 and putting too much stock in it. I would feel better about it if Dr. Krahn seemed to have more confidence in it. It could mean something different for guys outside the Leinster group than it does for the guys within it.

L159.2 is great news for guys who fall into the cluster (includes folks with ancestry outside of Britain as well), which is becoming more numerous! A Ryan just tested CCGG on 464X, by the way, and matches the haplotype.

I have the same question about L159.2's twin opposing brother, L69.4.  L69.4+ has popped up with some haplotypes that fit well with others that are L69.4-.  It makes me wonder if there is an L69.5+, L69.6+, etc.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2010, 09:11:25 AM »

A Welsh that matches the Leinster modal just tested CCGG on 464x. He also shares the 14 on DYS393 that I have.
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« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2010, 03:55:20 PM »

Yes, we found Welsh over in the Walsh surname project.  This is a good example of the lack of reliance I feel on surname tracking. This Welsh and me are both from Leinster and both would seem to be descendants of people from Wales, at least if the surnames mean anything.  There is another Welsh from Leinster who actually does match with me closely while this one doesn't, as you said, he is of the Leinster modal type.   When I look at the Welsh/Walsh/Welch surname projects I see just about every European haplogroup, J's, E's, whatever, even those that are from the same county.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2010, 04:23:21 PM »

I agree with you. I wonder how many different families in Ireland took on the Welsh/Walsh name? I am sure some native Irish took the name too, but how do you know which is which?
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MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2010, 07:10:20 PM »

I agree with you. I wonder how many different families in Ireland took on the Welsh/Walsh name? I am sure some native Irish took the name too, but how do you know which is which?

The Irish are the Good-Looking ones ;)

Mr Ryan(ccgg) matched my L159 y-search entry. He contacted me. and
I pointed him to the L21 and L159.2 projects.  I sent links to the forums as well.

Ryan is another Leinster name.

Have any Murphys tested for L159 yet? I bet the Sea Warriors would have been all around the Irish Sea ;)
Murphy, ó Murchadha .. Sea-battler.

Maybe I'm from the Leinster O'Connor's?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 08:24:35 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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OConnor
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« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2010, 01:37:27 PM »

Mr Ryan has ordered R-L159.2

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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2010, 03:19:13 PM »

O'Connor,

Thank you for referring Mr. Ryan over to R-L159. If you check out the project page, you will notice a lot more members since Kirsten Saxe of the 464X Group helped with that.

Jerry Doty and I are coordinating the R-L159 Project; thanks again, O'Connor!

There are a couple of Murphys in the 464X Group that have tested CCGG, at least that I know of. There is definitely a connection to the sea with this group.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2010, 07:36:36 PM »

No need to thank me..it was a selfish deed being L159.2+ myself.


If some O'Tooles also test R-L159.2+

...then maybe it's the mark of Cathair Mor ;)

(I wondered about the name Cathair. I figured he didn't have a lint brush. :)

« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 07:42:24 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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Mark Jost
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« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2011, 07:25:09 PM »

Anything new be discovered about L159.2?

I posted a Network diagram using nested Country modals and Subclade modals over at Yahoo L21 project and L159.2 is on a branch with M222, each splitting off about the same time. Modal M222 on it's own branch has about six more mutations (around a 1000 years older) than Modal L159.2  which points to as being older but but rapid birth events could mean that M222 is closer in age to L159.2. I am calculating around 175 years average per mutation using the new Bergarella2010 rates.

My cluster 1130-A-1 has alot more mutations but myself and three others on a split off has about the same number of mutations that would be a modal as does modal M222.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/message/4066

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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
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