World Families Forums - Ancient mtDNA from Israel

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 17, 2014, 07:30:35 PM
Home Help Search Login Register

+  World Families Forums
|-+  General Forums - Note: You must Be Logged In to post. Anyone can browse.
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  Ancient mtDNA from Israel
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Ancient mtDNA from Israel  (Read 1150 times)
Maliclavelli
Guru
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2099


« on: December 19, 2009, 05:00:53 AM »

The paper “Molecular Exploration of the First-Century Tomb of the Shroud in Akeldama , Jerusalem” by Carney D. Matheson et al. (PLoS ONE, December 2009) is interesting for many reasons.
1)   The shroud found in the tomb is completely different from the “Shroud of Turin”, then the latter is a forgery, as C14 demonstrated, dating that on the 13th century about.
2)   The man buried in SC1, died of tuberculosis and leprosy, and sealed in his tomb, could be  Jesus and this could be an explication of the empty tomb. For what I know, nobody has done this hypothesis (neither Shimon Gibson in “The Final Days of Jesus” nor James Tabor in “The Jesus Dynasty”), but I think that like every hypothesis it must be done and verified.
3)   The scholars have done a mtDNA test of the rests. It is interesting that  they are probably H or V, T3, W, H or J1, but nobody is K, the most diffused haplogroup of Ashkenazim. The cemetery was for foreigners, and we don’t  know their origin and if a Galilean was considered a foreigner: I ask for some information on this.
4)   Above all the scholars are trying to do a YDNA test: “The three M. Tuberculosis positive individuals do not appear to be maternally related, they may however be paternally related (this will be investigated in future Y chromosome analyses)” ( p. 11).
Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Jean M
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1253


« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 09:19:07 PM »

It has long been accepted by most scientists that the Shroud of Turin is a fake.

Quote
The man buried in SC1, died of tuberculosis and leprosy, and sealed in his tomb, could be  Jesus and this could be an explication of the empty tomb.

The tomb of Jesus, according to the Biblical account, was empty because he had risen from the dead, and was subsequently seen walking around. The simple explanation for this apparent miracle is that he was not actually dead when placed hastily in the tomb on the eve of the Sabbath. In any case the story of the empty tomb cannot have any connection with a tomb that was sealed, because it contained a person who had died of infectious disease.

According to Wikipedia, the Akeldama in recent times was used as a cemetery for non-Jews. However 2000 years ago the Tomb of the Shroud was a Jewish burial place. That is perfectly clear from the paper.     
Logged
Maliclavelli
Guru
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2099


« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 04:15:43 AM »

Dear Jean Manco, I said that nobody between Shimon Gibson and James Tabor had hypothesized that the man in SC1 could be Jesus. This isn’t true. The fact that Gibson, as a Jew, has been prudent it can be easily understood. James Tabor has done much more: he has demonstrated the “dynasty” of Jesus, the probable father (“Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera” of Sidon), the four brothers and at least two sisters, etc. But there is much more about the “Tomb of the Shroud” and the Talpiot Tomb, the ossuary of “James the brother of Jesus”, the fact that on the Talpiot Tomb has been built a house etc.
All this can be explained (and also the book of Shimon Gibson) by what Tabor says: “The Israelis are very sensitive to the Christian world and maintain official diplomatic relations with the Vatican. They are pleased to fill the role of the welcoming custodians for Christian tourism of the Holy Land. The last thing in which they want to be involved is some archeological find that would spark controversy or provoke Christian theological debates. A Jesus ‘family tomb’ would be problem enough, but one that contained an ossuary marked ‘Jesus son of Joseph’ would surely place them in the most delicate situation imaginable” (The Jesus Dynasty, p. 27).
The fact that you say that the “simple explanation for this apparent miracle (the resurrection) is that he was not actually dead” isn’t easily acceptable. This explanation isn’t simple at all, it is that of the Monophysitic heresy. Perhaps it is more simple  my hypothesis. The scholar works by indications. Why Matthew 27:3-8 and Acts 1:19 speak about Akeldama in two different and contradictory ways if the Jesus’ tomb was on the other side of Jerusalem? Scholars know very well that what is expunged from a story is always recycled.
But what is interesting for us is genetics, and from this paper (and from others that will arrive) we are getting some very interesting findings: the mtDNA of SC1 is probably extinct, probably mtDNA K (my K1a1b1 and K1c1* of my daughter my son my wife etc. from Sicily) wasn’t present among Jews at the beginning of Christian era, etc.
Logged

Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


SEO light theme by © Mustang forums. Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC

Page created in 0.103 seconds with 18 queries.