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gunslingingardner
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« on: January 06, 2010, 07:46:19 PM »

Can anyone help me?

These are my supposed alleles:

13  25  14  11  11  16  12  12  13  13  13  29

Someone told me it shows that my ancestors came from Germany, England, Ireland, and Scotland.

What does this tell me that my ancestors were Celt, Saxon, Viking?


Best,
Corey
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rms2
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 08:36:14 PM »

Can anyone help me?

These are my supposed alleles:

13  25  14  11  11  16  12  12  13  13  13  29

Someone told me it shows that my ancestors came from Germany, England, Ireland, and Scotland.

What does this tell me that my ancestors were Celt, Saxon, Viking?


Best,
Corey

It's really difficult to say much from a 12-marker haplotype, but it would be helpful if you could give us your Ysearch ID.

If you don't have a Ysearch entry and you are an FTDNA customer, you can easily upload your haplotype to Ysearch and create an entry by going to your Y-DNA Matches page and clicking on the link there that says, "Click here to upload to Ysearch.org". Just follow the directions, and please be sure to write down your Ysearch ID and password in case you forget them later.

If you are not an FTDNA customer, you can go to Ysearch.org, click on "CREATE A NEW USER" at the top of the page, and enter your marker values manually.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 08:36:42 PM by rms2 » Logged

OConnor
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 12:25:14 AM »

I'll guess you're in the R1b group, though I don't know if that 16 is an indicator of anything.

I would say you have genetic relatives throughout western europe, but maybe not direct ancestors in all the places you mentioned.

You need more snp testing to find out what sub group of R1B you are. Then you might have a better idea.

These are the snp's I tested for so far:
L130- L144- L159.2+ L192- L193- L195- L21+ L96- M126- M153- M160- M173+ M18- M207+ M222- M269+ M343+ M37- M65- M73- P25+ P312+ P66- SRY2627-


And so far my sub-group is R1b1b2a1b5
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 12:38:57 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


gunslingingardner
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 07:36:04 PM »

Here are some more alleles:

If anyone can tell me the ancestry, I'd really appreciate it, I just can't afford a DNA test, a few relatives took the the test, sent it to me and came out as:

13 25 14 11 11 16 12 12 14 13 13 29 17 9 10 10 11 25 15 19 31 15 15 17 17       11 11 19 23 17 15 16 18 34 39 12 12

And from what I know, the Gardners came from France, invaded into the British Isles, and emigrated to America.

Sir Osbern le Gardynyr, the famous knight, was my ancestor. His name is mixed with Old Norse and French ancestry. I assume that he descended from Vikings with the first name Osborne.

Does anyone know the ancestry of these alleles?
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Jdean
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 08:03:30 PM »

Here are some more alleles:

If anyone can tell me the ancestry, I'd really appreciate it, I just can't afford a DNA test, a few relatives took the the test, sent it to me and came out as:

13 25 14 11 11 16 12 12 14 13 13 29 17 9 10 10 11 25 15 19 31 15 15 17 17       11 11 19 23 17 15 16 18 34 39 12 12

And from what I know, the Gardners came from France, invaded into the British Isles, and emigrated to America.

Sir Osbern le Gardynyr, the famous knight, was my ancestor. His name is mixed with Old Norse and French ancestry. I assume that he descended from Vikings with the first name Osborne.

Does anyone know the ancestry of these alleles?

You know it's always really difficult with R1b haplotypes, maybe if you upgraded to 67, but your closest match on Ysearch is ID 2ZEJJ a gentleman called Gomez from Spain.

 Hope that helps
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 08:03:58 PM by Jdean » Logged

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gunslingingardner
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 11:17:39 PM »

I think one thing is for sure:

My ancestors were European.

This is my theory, tell me if it sounds crazy:

My Y - chromosome started off in Eurasia like all other R1b carriers. Then migrated into Europe. Settled in Spain during the last Ice Age, then moved into Scandinavia. Then as Vikings invaded into France (where my ancestor got the name Osborne which is Old Norse) and then invaded into Scotland, England, and emigrated to good ole USA.

Here are more accurate alleles:

13 25 14 11 11 16 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9 9 11 11 25 15 19 30 14 15 16 18

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rms2
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 10:09:53 AM »

You are R1b1b2 of some kind, so your y-dna ancestors weren't anywhere near Spain during the last Ice Age. R1b1b2 isn't old enough to have been anywhere during the last Ice Age. Its predecessors were still in Asia at that time.

About the rest I can't say anything because I don't know.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 10:10:21 AM by rms2 » Logged

Maliclavelli
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 12:35:18 PM »

Rich, read please the last paper of Cruciani et alii, which is demonstrating that R1b1* was in Italy I think during the Younger Dryas, as I have always theoricized, and from it came the African R1b1* and all the European subclades, beginning from R1b1a, found in Corsica (before was in Sardinia) and probably those found in Lebanon were from Sardinian soldiers at the time of the Sea Peoples.
This could be a difinitive proof for everything I have supported in these last years, beyond my banishments.
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Maliclavelli


YDNA: R-S12460


MtDNA: K1a1b1e

rms2
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 02:50:59 PM »

Rich, read please the last paper of Cruciani et alii, which is demonstrating that R1b1* was in Italy I think during the Younger Dryas, as I have always theoricized, and from it came the African R1b1* and all the European subclades, beginning from R1b1a, found in Corsica (before was in Sardinia) and probably those found in Lebanon were from Sardinian soldiers at the time of the Sea Peoples.
This could be a difinitive proof for everything I have supported in these last years, beyond my banishments.

Did he use Zhivotovsky's method of dating haplotype variance?
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LuRose
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 10:31:47 PM »

My Williams line is as follows.::

12-25-15-10-11-13-12-12-13-12-13-28-
18-9-10-11-11-24-15-20-31-14-15-18-17

My MtDNA:

U2
16051g  16129c  16181g 16182c 16183c
16189c 16260t 16356c 16362c 16519c

I cannot find matches on FTDNA site....Can you all analize them for me ?

LuRose
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OConnor
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 11:33:59 PM »

at a glance I see numbers similar to western europe.

You need SNP testing

Try Advanced Orders on your FamilyTreeDNA home page.

You need to find out which branch of R1B? you are on.

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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


LuRose
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 04:32:25 PM »



Thank you.

I just don't understand  all of that scientific jargon.

LuRose
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OConnor
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2010, 08:35:52 PM »

On your FamilyTreeDNA Homepage click on Haplotree
and follow your snp path

..let me know where your line ends.


Edited:

I tried your 25 numbers in  www.y-search.org

I tried a distance of 4 because i felt you had a couple numbers that looked odd to my untrained eye.

Match #1 was 23/25
7FX5G   Williams.......... Armagh, Northern Ireland  R1b1b2   Family Tree DNA  

Match #2 was 22/25
UNXKW   Mac Neil ..............barra, Scotland

Followed by more Scots at a distance of 21/25

When I was in your place, over time I got a 67 number sequence, and tested for  the snp R-L21 and the downstream snp package.
I turned out to be L159.2+. A new sub-group of L21.



« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 09:54:50 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


LuRose
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2010, 09:51:35 PM »

Hello....

Yes the 7FXG5 is me or my brother Jean..rather.  I have written down is :
RM269    R1b1b2a1b5b..

I will go back to Family Tree and look again at the other information...All I could come up with was the MacNeil and the Buie  of the Isles...There are three of we Williams related and none of us match the other...It is so strange...And we match no other Williams there...

Thank you...
LuRose


PS..

I did go back to Family Tree and the Haplo is R and the other is RM269...I do not know the SNP. I looked for that and could not decipher it...My MtDNA matches 10 of 10 to several ladies from Ireland...
Thanks.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 10:47:18 PM by LuRose » Logged
OConnor
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 08:31:14 PM »

R269 is an snp

I too am R269+

I had additional testing done for more snp markers that are branches downstream from R269.

P25+
P312+
L21+ = R1b1b2a1b5
L159.2+

I'd like to find my snp trail to today.

 



« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 09:48:12 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


vtilroe
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2010, 06:42:13 AM »

Here are some more alleles:

If anyone can tell me the ancestry, I'd really appreciate it, I just can't afford a DNA test, a few relatives took the the test, sent it to me and came out as:

13 25 14 11 11 16 12 12 14 13 13 29 17 9 10 10 11 25 15 19 31 15 15 17 17       11 11 19 23 17 15 16 18 34 39 12 12

And from what I know, the Gardners came from France, invaded into the British Isles, and emigrated to America.

Sir Osbern le Gardynyr, the famous knight, was my ancestor. His name is mixed with Old Norse and French ancestry. I assume that he descended from Vikings with the first name Osborne.

Does anyone know the ancestry of these alleles?
I ran these markers through Jim Cullen's predictor (http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/HaploTest.htm) and R1b-S28 appears to be the strongest contender at a > 40% chance. R1b-S28 is allegedly indicative of the R-U152 haplogroup -- although I personally don't see how.  However, anything that looks like an R1b1b2... haplotype really demands to be extended to 67 markers plus a full deep-clade SNP test.  Anything less is hopelessly speculative.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 06:46:22 AM by vtilroe » Logged

YSearch & MitoSearch: 2GXWW


yDNA: R-U106*


mtDNA: U5a1a1 (Genbank# GQ368895)


R-P312-WTY Project Admin http://tinyurl.com/daertg

Jdean
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2010, 10:10:31 AM »

I ran these markers through Jim Cullen's predictor (http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/HaploTest.htm) and R1b-S28 appears to be the strongest contender at a > 40% chance. R1b-S28 is allegedly indicative of the R-U152 haplogroup -- although I personally don't see how.  However, anything that looks like an R1b1b2... haplotype really demands to be extended to 67 markers plus a full deep-clade SNP test.  Anything less is hopelessly speculative.

How up to date is that software? it predicts me as 38% likely U106 followed by 28% for U152 even when using 67 markers which I suppose aptly demonstrates your advise for the need for deep clads testing with R1b1b2 haplotypes
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 10:29:38 AM by Jdean » Logged

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rms2
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2010, 12:13:56 PM »

Here's what I got for my 67 markers:

R1b-Frisian3 =>36%  R1b-Frisian =>28%  R1b =>21%  R1b-S.Irish =>6%  R1b-S21* =>3%  R1b-Frisian4 =>3%  R1b-C.Europe =>1%

The only mention of an SNP is that " R1b-S21* =>3%", although the "Frisian" clusters are known to be U106+.

Of course, all that is why, in the early days of my STR results, until I got my 492=12, everyone was saying my haplotype looks "kind of Frisian", and it was expected (especially by me) that I would be S21+/U106+.
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Jdean
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2010, 02:07:53 PM »

Here's what I got for my 67 markers:

R1b-Frisian3 =>36%  R1b-Frisian =>28%  R1b =>21%  R1b-S.Irish =>6%  R1b-S21* =>3%  R1b-Frisian4 =>3%  R1b-C.Europe =>1%

The only mention of an SNP is that " R1b-S21* =>3%", although the "Frisian" clusters are known to be U106+.

Of course, all that is why, in the early days of my STR results, until I got my 492=12, everyone was saying my haplotype looks "kind of Frisian", and it was expected (especially by me) that I would be S21+/U106+.

492=13 is an interesting marker isn't it, I seem to remember you saying it's about the only value you look out for (and avoid) when picking candidates for R-L21 testing.

The weird thing is my value is 12 yet this software still thinks I'm more likely U106, that said I don't think the database has been updated since L21 was discovered so it couldn't predict for that SNP anyway (assuming I'm right)
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »

I argued earlier on another thread (about the Frankish warriors) that it is virtually impossible to distinguish between R1b subclades below L11 based on STRs alone. 492 appears to be a reasonably good marker for determining U106 vs. P312, but even that isn't infallible. Thus Cullen's predictor is almost worthless for that purpose. It does a little better identifying Nordtvedt's various R1b clusters, if one is reasonably close to one of them, but only some of these clusters can be identified with specific SNPs.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 05:11:54 PM by GoldenHind » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2010, 06:11:23 PM »

Here's what I got for my 67 markers:

R1b-Frisian3 =>36%  R1b-Frisian =>28%  R1b =>21%  R1b-S.Irish =>6%  R1b-S21* =>3%  R1b-Frisian4 =>3%  R1b-C.Europe =>1%

The only mention of an SNP is that " R1b-S21* =>3%", although the "Frisian" clusters are known to be U106+.

Of course, all that is why, in the early days of my STR results, until I got my 492=12, everyone was saying my haplotype looks "kind of Frisian", and it was expected (especially by me) that I would be S21+/U106+.

492=13 is an interesting marker isn't it, I seem to remember you saying it's about the only value you look out for (and avoid) when picking candidates for R-L21 testing.

The weird thing is my value is 12 yet this software still thinks I'm more likely U106, that said I don't think the database has been updated since L21 was discovered so it couldn't predict for that SNP anyway (assuming I'm right)


Now I also avoid recruiting men for L21 testing who have the combination 437=14, 448=18, and H4=10, because those are the identifying marker values for the R1b North-South Cluster, and it has been 100% L21- thus far.

I also watch for the combo 393=12 and 426=11. Those are indicators that a man is probably P310- (and thus negative for P312, U106, etc.).

But, yeah, that and 492=13 are about it.

Goldenhind is right. Except for the really distinctive clusters and 492=13 (which only works with 67-marker haplotypes, since 492 isn't included in FTDNA's first 37 markers), it is nearly impossible to tell for which SNP an R1b1b2 guy will be positive.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 06:13:12 PM by rms2 » Logged

Jdean
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2010, 07:54:02 PM »

There's to much of the above for me to quote, nuff said but yes the main point is R1b1b2 haplotypes are very hard to predict, and at the end of the day I think Jim Cullen's predictor was originally designed for I1 haplotypes which it appears to deal with very well
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2010, 08:20:30 AM »

The division of our family along the lines of DYS390 was the result of spending a great deal of time with the results mcp certification, of completing the early "Mutation Rates" chart which showed very deep ancestry, and of reading a great deal online mcsa. This definition is meant to be wide and all-encompassing to a large group of our family. This and the other DYS390 (and associated markers) split is meant to be the defining split in our family mcsd dumps. In fact, it's more recent than the R1a / R1b split, but that's likely about all.
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