Loads of Advanced Menu Results This Evening

[rms2]

Dear Members of the R-L21 Plus Project,
 
If you are expecting results on L226, the R-L21 panel, or other orders off of FTDNA's Advanced Orders menu, check the bottom of your Haplotree page, because loads of results came in this evening. I've just been looking at them.
 
I'll warn you up front: no big surprises where L226 is concerned. It continues to be exclusively an Irish Type III thing, unless there is something I've missed. But check for yourselves.

(No Deep Clade-R or good ol' L21 test results this evening, though - at least, not yet.)

[Mikewww]

.... I'll warn you up front: no big surprises where L226 is concerned. It continues to be exclusively an Irish Type III thing, unless there is something I've missed. But check for yourselves....

That's what I was afraid of.  There are so many people that received the FTDNA email and took action on it by ordering the L226 singleton.   If they come out negative they've learned very little.   Well, I guess it didn't cost much.   I spent $119 on the "package" and I expect to be all negative, but I find solace in knowing I fit in no other known buckets... a true asterisk.  

Hopefully there will be some surprises... maybe L193 where it wasn't expected or maybe a another cluster for L159.

[rms2]

.... I'll warn you up front: no big surprises where L226 is concerned. It continues to be exclusively an Irish Type III thing, unless there is something I've missed. But check for yourselves....

That's what I was afraid of.  There are so many people that received the FTDNA email and took action on it by ordering the L226 singleton.   If they come out negative they've learned very little.   Well, I guess it didn't cost much.   I spent $119 on the "package" and I expect to be all negative, but I find solace in knowing I fit in no other known buckets... a true asterisk.  

Hopefully there will be some surprises... maybe L193 where it wasn't expected or maybe a another cluster for L159.

I don't have a lot of confidence in L159. My impression is that Dr. Krahn doesn't either. Nobody in the project has an L193+ result yet, and there are plenty of L193- results.

L226 is solid but very restricted. It's great news for the Irish Type III guys.

I wish all that money had been spent to advance continental testing for L21. We still don't know enough about it (heck, it's just a year old!), and everyone is going off like whirling dervishes after mostly private SNPs and piles of negatives.

[rms2]

More and more and more L226 and R-L21 Panel results this evening, so check the bottom of your Haplotree page.

I only saw one positive result, and that was an L226+ for a guy who is Irish Type III.

But check anyway. I could have missed something.

I will be glad when all this downstream testing gets done and FTDNA gets back to processing Deep Clade-Rs and the few guys we still have waiting for L21 results.

[rms2]

I take it back. More results have come in since I wrote that last post and there is another positive result to report:

an L226+ for another Irish Type III guy.

[Jdean]

Oh good two L226 people who are Irish type III, hope your ready to eat humble pie;)_

[rms2]

Oh good two L226 people who are Irish type III, hope your ready to eat humble pie;)_

Well, I could still be wrong, I guess, and, if I am, I'll take my humble pie with vanilla ice cream, thank you.

But we've had a lot of L226 results come in, and thus far all the positives are in the very distinctive Irish Type III group. If I were one of those guys, I would be very happy.

(I'm just kind of happy I didn't buy an L226 test!)

[NealtheRed]

Oh good two L226 people who are Irish type III, hope your ready to eat humble pie;)_

Well, I could still be wrong, I guess, and, if I am, I'll take my humble pie with vanilla ice cream, thank you.

But we've had a lot of L226 results come in, and thus far all the positives are in the very distinctive Irish Type III group. If I were one of those guys, I would be very happy.

(I'm just kind of happy I didn't buy an L226 test!)

Don't worry, old friend, I would still like to know the extent of L21 on the continent.

But L159.2 is still valuable for us Irish Sea folk, albeit it is kinda exclusive!!

[Jdean]

Oh good two L226 people who are Irish type III, hope your ready to eat humble pie;)_

Well, I could still be wrong, I guess, and, if I am, I'll take my humble pie with vanilla ice cream, thank you.

But we've had a lot of L226 results come in, and thus far all the positives are in the very distinctive Irish Type III group. If I were one of those guys, I would be very happy.

(I'm just kind of happy I didn't buy an L226 test!)

Don't worry, old friend, I would still like to know the extent of L21 on the continent.

But L159.2 is still valuable for us Irish Sea folk, albeit it is kinda exclusive!!

Indeed, and if a few more L69s turn up that would promote that mutation to a much more interesting status.

Of course there are still three L21 WTY kits outstanding and the last three P312s are being processed right now, so who knows we may get that elusive haplogroup splitting SNP yet.

Out of interest there is a lot of talk of the huge bias towards the Isles with DNA testing, and even then there is a further bias towards Ireland and Scotland. Do these figures represent the mixture of people that formed the States, or is there some other issue making Continental descended Americans less interested in DNA testing?

[rms2]

. . . Out of interest there is a lot of talk of the huge bias towards the Isles with DNA testing, and even then there is a further bias towards Ireland and Scotland. Do these figures represent the mixture of people that formed the States, or is there some other issue making Continental descended Americans less interested in DNA testing?

I think many Americans of continental descent come from families that know their heritage because their arrival in North America was more recent than that of many British Isles descended Americans.

If one's family came from Italy or Eastern Europe as recently as the 20th century, chances are he knows who the immigrants were and exactly where they came from. That makes for less incentive to spend money on dna testing. Americans of British Isles ancestry, on the other hand, descend, for the most part, from people who came here much earlier, back when record keeping was not so good. Many records have perished or are just hard to  find simply because more time has passed. Those things increase the incentives to have one's dna tested to try another avenue to find one's ancestors.

Then there is also the curious fact (at least it seems to me a fact) that Irish and Scots are really enthusiastic about their family histories.

[Mikewww]

I've updated the "Files" section at the L21 yahoo group spreadsheet so that pretty much all of the downstream SNP info is there.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RL21Project/

There are over 90 that have what I consider definitive downstream statuses.  They are either positive for something or negative for everything. 

It seems apparent that there is no new SNP that divides R-L21* in half or anything like that.  I don't think any will be as numerous as M222+ but M222+ does have a huge headstart.  I do think L159, L226 and L193 all hold promise.

I could be off a little on any of these numbers.

L159+ has 33 people and all that I see seem to be consistent so it seems to be stable enough to be a fairly true sub-clade divider. FTDNA does consider it stable enough to be included in the R-L21 package.  They did not consider L69 stable enough.  That's what they told me anyway.  There is a clear association with the Irish Sea/Leinster folks, but there could be another stray cluster out there somewhere.

L226+ has 26 people. There is a clear association with the Irish Type III folks and since the testing on it has been heavy, I think it is probably restricted to Irish Type III.  My count is that 76 people have done singleton (stand-alone) L226 testing and come out negative/ancestral. Ouch!  Add the 26 true asterisk people and we have over 100 L226- folks. We should know the boundaries of L226+ by now.

L193+ has five people, but they have four different surnames.  There has not been much testing on L193 so I think it might have hidden potential.  It is clearly associated with 11-13 Combo 640=12 people.

True asterisk people, negative for everything known, have 26 people.  I think this "paragroup" would retain the majority if all R-L21* did full package downstream testing.  The appetite for Walk the Y's maybe down, but eventually more "discovery" is needed.  I guess the Y chromosome is a pretty big thing to walk. 

As for L130, L144, L192, L195 and L96; I don't know anyone who is positive/derived.    Does anyone?     Do these fall into the P66, M37 category of the "Why are considered public?"

[rms2]

More R-L21 panel results on New Year's Eve, all negative but for two.

There was one L193+ for a guy who has the 11-13 combo and a surprise L195+ result for an Irish guy.

I read there was one L195+ result from the WTY. I don't know if this is the same guy or if this is a second L195+. If it's a second one and the surnames are different, then that could be important.

Would a man who has had the WTY need to order the R-L21 panel? Probably not, right?

[bart otoole]

Would a man who has had the WTY need to order the R-L21 panel? Probably not, right?

Rich -

don't assume anything.  As a person who took the WTY - there is ZERO explanation of results.  And ZERO explanation of how to read results.

And not even and e-mail from FTDNA saying the WTY results were in.

All I found on my FTDNA home page was a line under yDNA stating 'Walk the Y'.

On the other hand I did get that (groan) e-mail suggesting that I test for L226, since it was the greatest discovery since the invention of the wheelbarrow.

[rms2]

Would a man who has had the WTY need to order the R-L21 panel? Probably not, right?

Rich -

don't assume anything.  As a person who took the WTY - there is ZERO explanation of results.  And ZERO explanation of how to read results.

And not even and e-mail from FTDNA saying the WTY results were in.

All I found on my FTDNA home page was a line under yDNA stating 'Walk the Y'.

On the other hand I did get that (groan) e-mail suggesting that I test for L226, since it was the greatest discovery since the invention of the wheelbarrow.

I'm on the co-admin list for the WTY, but I must admit, I haven't really kept up with it.

My interest is L21. We've only known about it for a year.

[vtilroe]

Would a man who has had the WTY need to order the R-L21 panel? Probably not, right?

Only if the primers had failed to get a good read for the SNPs in question.  The SNPs being tested or discovered in WTY are not being added to the deep clade SNP results in the haplotree view, but are available in an Excel spreadsheet file once the WTY participant has been scored.  I do not know if those results will eventually be migrated to the haplotree deep clade results or not.

In the case of L226, the original primer template that was being used for the first several months of WTY sequencing did not get a clear result.  It wasn't until last month once new primers were developed that Thomas picked out L226.  Consequently the early WTY testees needed to re-order it from the Advanced Orders menu, which Dennis Wright had already advised for the Irish Type III guys.

If a WTY participant has had their chromats uploaded to the Finch2 server for community analysis they can be checked there, but many are not being uploaded and I'm not sure why.

[bart otoole]

I'm lost, but that's nothing new.

I thought WTY results were automatically placed on Finch.  That's where I tracked my own progress.

Is there an additional step to make them available to all?

Anyone who wants is welcome to my results.

[Jdean]

I'm lost, but that's nothing new.

I thought WTY results were automatically placed on Finch.  That's where I tracked my own progress.

Is there an additional step to make them available to all?

Anyone who wants is welcome to my results.

I'm not completely sure, but I think you may have to email FTDNA to request they upload the chromates, least ways that's what I did on the advise of Vince, and they did show up there shortly after.