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Author Topic: New R-L226 Project  (Read 1181 times)
rms2
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« on: December 10, 2009, 09:17:40 PM »

Dennis Wright has started a new R-L226 Project:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L226_Project/default.aspx?section=yresults

So far all the L226+ results have been for men who have the Irish Type III haplotype. L226 seems to be like M222 in its identification with a haplotype that is pretty easy to spot.
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vtilroe
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 10:01:10 PM »

Dennis made an interesting post on Rootsweb regardng L226:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-12/1260494868
Quote
These figures came from FTDNA, where they have said to me:-

"A quick look at our system shows that 1240 people are L21+ but M222-.
Since M222 is about 1/3 of the L21+ men and since so far 1/3 of the men tested for L226 are + this might represent a branch about
70% of the size of M222."

I must presume, since the information comes from FTDNA, that these are SNP tested and from these figures I worked as follows:-
If L21+, M222- = 1240
and M222 is 1/3 of L21+ = 620
then all L21 = 1860

So far all Irish Type III are L226+ so I am assuming the 273 + 37 Irish Type III that I have isolated = 310 are positive for L226.
So 620 M222 + 310 L226 = 930 which is 1/2 of L21+ total.

I think it is important that all L21+, M222- check L226 as it might have wider significance that just Irish Type III.

Dennis
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 10:01:28 PM by vtilroe » Logged

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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 12:33:53 AM »

Dennis made an interesting post on Rootsweb regardng L226:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-12/1260494868
Quote
These figures came from FTDNA, where they have said to me:-

"A quick look at our system shows that 1240 people are L21+ but M222-.
Since M222 is about 1/3 of the L21+ men and since so far 1/3 of the men tested for L226 are + this might represent a branch about
70% of the size of M222."

I must presume, since the information comes from FTDNA, that these are SNP tested and from these figures I worked as follows:-
If L21+, M222- = 1240
and M222 is 1/3 of L21+ = 620
then all L21 = 1860

So far all Irish Type III are L226+ so I am assuming the 273 + 37 Irish Type III that I have isolated = 310 are positive for L226.
So 620 M222 + 310 L226 = 930 which is 1/2 of L21+ total.

I think it is important that all L21+, M222- check L226 as it might have wider significance that just Irish Type III.

Dennis
I think that "so far 1/3 of the men tested for L226 are +" can not be extrapolated to mean that 1/3 of L21* will be L226+.

From what I've seen, who has ordered L226 as a "singleton" order is biased towards people who feel they will be positive, which is mostly Irish Type III's.   

An extrapolation of early testing might only be valid if counting only L21 downstream "package" orders, although that be biased away from L226+ and L159+ people since they were the early rush of singletons.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 12:41:34 AM »

Dennis made an interesting post on Rootsweb regardng L226:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-12/1260494868
Quote
These figures came from FTDNA, where they have said to me:-

"A quick look at our system shows that 1240 people are L21+ but M222-.
Since M222 is about 1/3 of the L21+ men and since so far 1/3 of the men tested for L226 are + this might represent a branch about
70% of the size of M222."

I must presume, since the information comes from FTDNA, that these are SNP tested and from these figures I worked as follows:-
If L21+, M222- = 1240
and M222 is 1/3 of L21+ = 620
then all L21 = 1860
So far all Irish Type III are L226+ so I am assuming the 273 + 37 Irish Type III that I have isolated = 310 are positive for L226.
So 620 M222 + 310 L226 = 930 which is 1/2 of L21+ total.
I think it is important that all L21+, M222- check L226 as it might have wider significance that just Irish Type III.
Dennis

Has anyone outside of Irish Type III been positive for L226?   If not and if it continues to be relegated to Irish Type III, here is another point to extrapolate on.

Of about 580 people with confirmed L21* and 67 markers (in the project and from Ysearch), about 20 had key Irish Type III markers of 459=8,9 439=11 456=15 (464=13,13,15,17).  That is a much lower percentage.   

I think that is actually too low because I think the Irish Type III guys had enough "togetherness" and comfort knowing the strength of their STR signature that they didn't have the need to for L21 testing.  After a couple had it, the rest felt pretty comfortable knowing they were L21*, just my opinion.
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vtilroe
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 03:12:16 AM »

Dennis made an interesting post on Rootsweb regardng L226:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2009-12/1260494868
Quote
These figures came from FTDNA, where they have said to me:-

"A quick look at our system shows that 1240 people are L21+ but M222-.
Since M222 is about 1/3 of the L21+ men and since so far 1/3 of the men tested for L226 are + this might represent a branch about
70% of the size of M222."

I must presume, since the information comes from FTDNA, that these are SNP tested and from these figures I worked as follows:-
If L21+, M222- = 1240
and M222 is 1/3 of L21+ = 620
then all L21 = 1860

So far all Irish Type III are L226+ so I am assuming the 273 + 37 Irish Type III that I have isolated = 310 are positive for L226.
So 620 M222 + 310 L226 = 930 which is 1/2 of L21+ total.

I think it is important that all L21+, M222- check L226 as it might have wider significance that just Irish Type III.

Dennis
I think that "so far 1/3 of the men tested for L226 are +" can not be extrapolated to mean that 1/3 of L21* will be L226+.

From what I've seen, who has ordered L226 as a "singleton" order is biased towards people who feel they will be positive, which is mostly Irish Type III's.   

An extrapolation of early testing might only be valid if counting only L21 downstream "package" orders, although that be biased away from L226+ and L159+ people since they were the early rush of singletons.
Ah, good point.  L226+ testing thus far has been fairly restricted to Type III guys - kind of like having only Irish testing for L21 and announcing that L21 is 95% of R1b1b2*.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2009, 07:54:23 AM »

One or two Leinster folks might test for L226.
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rms2
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2009, 12:33:45 AM »

Actually, there are a number of guys outside of Irish Type III who have tested for L226, and all of them have been negative.

I could be wrong, but my impression is that L226 won't be all that widely distributed within the L21+ brotherhood. I think it will probably remain the Irish Type III SNP.

It's just that Ireland is way over represented in genetic genealogy. As long as that is the case, it will loom large in any discussion of R1b1b2.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2009, 10:49:58 AM »

Yeah, and I got that e-mail from Mr. Greenspan himself talking about the importance of L226. It urks me a little bit, and it seems some brown-nosing is going on. Excuse my attitude.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


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rms2
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2009, 11:11:21 AM »

Yeah, and I got that e-mail from Mr. Greenspan himself talking about the importance of L226. It urks me a little bit, and it seems some brown-nosing is going on. Excuse my attitude.

I wouldn't say that. Dennis is doing the right thing by his guys and his newly-found clade to lobby and recruit for it aggressively.

New stuff is always the hot topic for awhile, until something newer comes along. L226 is a pretty big discovery.

There certainly has been a rush of orders for L226 since that email went out. We'll soon know if it extends beyond the Irish Type III guys. I'm betting it doesn't, but I  could be wrong.
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Jdean
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2009, 11:25:59 AM »

Well you can add me to the L226- group, not that I thought I would be anything else.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2009, 11:58:16 AM »

What the heck determines Irish Type III? I was never really knowledgable of it; that may contribute to my lack of understanding.
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Jdean
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2009, 12:07:50 PM »

What the heck determines Irish Type III? I was never really knowledgable of it; that may contribute to my lack of understanding.

Well to save parrot phrasing somebody else's work your best bet is to go to Dennis Wright's website.

http://www.irishtype3dna.org/
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rms2
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2009, 12:19:10 PM »

What the heck determines Irish Type III? I was never really knowledgable of it; that may contribute to my lack of understanding.

Well to save parrot phrasing somebody else's work your best bet is to go to Dennis Wright's website.

http://www.irishtype3dna.org/


It's a pretty easy haplotype to spot. Just take a look at the R-L226 category on the Y-DNA Results page of the R-L21 Plus Project and you will see what I mean (scroll way down for it):

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L21/default.aspx?section=yresults
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2009, 09:01:30 PM »

Yeah, and I got that e-mail from Mr. Greenspan himself talking about the importance of L226. It urks me a little bit, and it seems some brown-nosing is going on. Excuse my attitude.

I wouldn't say that. Dennis is doing the right thing by his guys and his newly-found clade to lobby and recruit for it aggressively.

New stuff is always the hot topic for awhile, until something newer comes along. L226 is a pretty big discovery.

There certainly has been a rush of orders for L226 since that email went out. We'll soon know if it extends beyond the Irish Type III guys. I'm betting it doesn't, but I  could be wrong.
I agree, this rush of orders is a great thing for the Irish Type III guys and Dennis W is being a super advocate for them.

The rush of orders means we'll have L226+ 's normal range of haploytpes much better defined soon.  I think we already know it is Type III, but there is still doubt about possible brother haplotype clusters that might be +.

This new group of orders does include a lot of people that look like they will be L226-.  That's okay, but I hope those people also considered the L21* downstream SNP package carefully to see if L159, L192, L193, etc. might be derived for themselves.  Of course, in my opinion, L69 should be included.

The L159, L69 and L193 folks might want to think about marketing strategies as well....

      
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 09:26:00 PM by Michael W Walsh » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 09:00:41 PM »

Quote
This new group of orders does include a lot of people that look like they will be L226-.

Yeah...........  Looks like the 'new' SNP's may be pretty recent and limited in distribution.  Which seems to argue for more L21 testing on the continent especially the low countries and get some more breadth into WTY.  Nobody said it was going to be quick and easy.
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rms2
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2009, 09:36:49 PM »

Quote
This new group of orders does include a lot of people that look like they will be L226-.

Yeah...........  Looks like the 'new' SNP's may be pretty recent and limited in distribution.  Which seems to argue for more L21 testing on the continent especially the low countries and get some more breadth into WTY.  Nobody said it was going to be quick and easy.

That's right. I don't know about everyone else, but I still want to know more about L21. I think a lot of the money that is being expended on negative results could be better spent testing more continentals for L21, but that's me.
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