World Families Forums - L159.2 +

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 30, 2014, 07:10:52 AM
Home Help Search Login Register

+  World Families Forums
|-+  General Forums - Note: You must Be Logged In to post. Anyone can browse.
| |-+  R1b General (Moderator: rms2)
| | |-+  L159.2 +
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 Go Down Print
Author Topic: L159.2 +  (Read 25309 times)
NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #200 on: May 15, 2010, 10:36:25 AM »

Well, I don't mind admitting that when I first ordered my original 37-marker test I was hoping for a result that would shout, "Descendant of Vikings!", loud and clear. But when that didn't happen, and when my matches turned out to be all West Midlands English, Welsh, Scots, and Irish, I slowly but surely surrendered the Viking thing as a fantasy of childhood.

But I still like the film.

;-)

LOL you're hilarious. Didn't we all? But that's what makes this hobby fun!

I am sure that at some point on our respective lines, all of us had chieftain ancestors until they were deposed by someone who got screwed before!

You know that at first glance your haplotype looks U106-ish? Hahaha I bet when you got your result: "Wtf"?

Oh, yeah. I have matches at 25 markers and under with U106+ guys, and just about everyone expected me to be U106+ (S21+ in those days), including Dr. Jim Wilson.

My 492=12 was the first signal that something was amiss with the U106+ prognostication, however.

The whole point of my last couple of posts was that Viking wannabe-ism is pretty widespread. I understand it because I had a mild case of it, which was cured by truth slapping me across the chops.

Some guys won't face the unpleasant facts, though. Instead they will turn intellectual somersaults and cartwheels trying to get their y-dna ancestor into Scandinavia somewhere and thence to the British Isles in time to be a Viking.

I think the person to whom you are referring found out the truth as well, and then jumped on the "true Celt" bandwagon.

That must have hurt when he found out of L21's presence throughout Scandinavia.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 10:37:50 AM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #201 on: May 15, 2010, 12:18:47 PM »

. . .

That must have hurt when he found out of L21's presence throughout Scandinavia.

I don't think it hurts yet. L21 is still scanty enough up there to be written off as the product of British slaves.

It will take loads and loads and loads of L21 in Scandinavia before it is accepted by everyone as native there and not of British provenance.

Look at all the L21 in France and Germany, and yet we still have people chalking it all up to the "Wild Geese", Irish monks, and Scottish merchants.

I don't know what it will take, honestly.

Well, some ancient dna test results would help. But how long will we be waiting for those, and of the kind that include SNP testing that will reveal an L21+ result?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 12:25:33 PM by rms2 » Logged

NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #202 on: May 15, 2010, 12:37:12 PM »

L21 was that "dirty, little secret" that no one wanted to accept as reality. So, they twisted it to fit their own personal views.

Just think if L21 was discovered first.

I wish we wouldn't even have to discuss this aspect of genetic genealogy, but this is why we conduct independent research. Empirical evidence will emerge, and not everyone will like it - but at least it will be an honest study. Let's throw away the stereotypes and study the data objectively.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



GoldenHind
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 731


« Reply #203 on: May 15, 2010, 04:02:49 PM »



Vking wannabe-ism is pretty plainly an aspect of y-dna testing. Some guys will never give it up.
In my experience, the desire for Viking ancestry in Americans of British descent takes a distant second place to the desire for Norman ancestry, and I don't think this is due to the film "The War Lord." I suspect this is even more true amongst the British themselves.
Logged
rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #204 on: May 15, 2010, 04:27:35 PM »



Vking wannabe-ism is pretty plainly an aspect of y-dna testing. Some guys will never give it up.
In my experience, the desire for Viking ancestry in Americans of British descent takes a distant second place to the desire for Norman ancestry, and I don't think this is due to the film "The War Lord." I suspect this is even more true amongst the British themselves.

I think the two forms of wannabe-ism are closely connected, since many believe the Normans were largely descended from Vikings.

There may be many persons of British ancestry who are in fact descended from Normans, but it is a thing nearly impossible to prove.

I could be wrong, but I don't think as many people saw "The War Lord"  as did "The Vikings" or were as influenced by it.

I liked both films, and both of them inspired me, as a young boy, to go to the library and read books about history.

Logged

GoldenHind
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 731


« Reply #205 on: May 15, 2010, 04:49:30 PM »



Vking wannabe-ism is pretty plainly an aspect of y-dna testing. Some guys will never give it up.
In my experience, the desire for Viking ancestry in Americans of British descent takes a distant second place to the desire for Norman ancestry, and I don't think this is due to the film "The War Lord." I suspect this is even more true amongst the British themselves.

I think the two forms of wannabe-ism are closely connected, since many believe the Normans were largely descended from Vikings.

There may be many persons of British ancestry who are in fact descended from Normans, but it is a thing nearly impossible to prove.

I could be wrong, but I don't think as many people saw "The War Lord"  as did "The Vikings" or were as influenced by it.

I liked both films, and both of them inspired me, as a young boy, to go to the library and read books about history.



I agree with you. But probably because I am older than you, I already knew a fair amount about both the Vikings and the Normans when I saw the films, and I was bothered by  the many historical inaccuracies in both (Vikings storming stone castles in England, "Frisian" pirates raiding Normandy etc.). Still those inaccuracies pale in comparison to Braveheart.

Maybe we should start a genetic testing company that offers tests for Viking and Norman DNA. We could make a packet and be safely esconsed in the Cayman Islands before the authorities caught up with us.
Logged
NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #206 on: May 15, 2010, 06:13:21 PM »

Have you guys seen the latest "Beowulf"?  That was horrible...

I don't even think modern Scandinavians call themselves Vikings. The only one I know of is Sven Karlssen - THE POWER VIKING!!!
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #207 on: May 15, 2010, 06:16:27 PM »

Oh, I remember the numerous anachronsims and other inaccuracies in "The Vikings". But I don't regard films, unless they are intended as documentaries, as anything more than entertainment. I don't expect them to be too terribly accurate, so I am rarely disappointed.

To me, "The Vikings" was in the same vein as "The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad" and "Jason and the Argonauts" - just good fun.
Logged

rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #208 on: May 15, 2010, 06:17:59 PM »

Have you guys seen the latest "Beowulf"?  That was horrible...

I don't even think modern Scandinavians call themselves Vikings. The only one I know of is Sven Karlssen - THE POWER VIKING!!!

No, I haven't seen that one. Thanks for the warning.
Logged

GoldenHind
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 731


« Reply #209 on: May 15, 2010, 08:19:52 PM »

Have you guys seen the latest "Beowulf"?  That was horrible...

I don't even think modern Scandinavians call themselves Vikings. The only one I know of is Sven Karlssen - THE POWER VIKING!!!
Is this the cartoonish one? If so, it was indeed dreadful. There was a joint Canadian-Icelandic production a few years back entitled "Beowulf and Grendel," with Gerald Butler in the title role. Although obviously somewhat low-budget, it wasn't half bad, and featured some decent Vendel/Välsgard type helmets. I think it must have been realesed in a total of one theatre in Iceland and three in Canada, but may still be available on DVD
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 01:49:12 PM by GoldenHind » Logged
NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #210 on: May 15, 2010, 08:36:39 PM »

Yeah, it's the CGI one. Beowulf falls in love with Grendel's mother, who happens to be Angelina Jolie. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the Swedish-Geatish Wars background to it, but coming from a literary background, they got everything wrong.

What is that one helmet found at Sutton Hoo? It is the one laced in gold, a ceremonial helmet. That has to be my favorite.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 08:37:09 PM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #211 on: May 18, 2010, 09:58:58 PM »

. . .

That must have hurt when he found out of L21's presence throughout Scandinavia.

I don't think it hurts yet. L21 is still scanty enough up there to be written off as the product of British slaves.

It will take loads and loads and loads of L21 in Scandinavia before it is accepted by everyone as native there and not of British provenance.

Look at all the L21 in France and Germany, and yet we still have people chalking it all up to the "Wild Geese", Irish monks, and Scottish merchants.

I don't know what it will take, honestly.

Well, some ancient dna test results would help. But how long will we be waiting for those, and of the kind that include SNP testing that will reveal an L21+ result?

I thought L21 was old enough to have spread to scandinavia, before there were any long ships of 900AD coming south.
Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #212 on: May 19, 2010, 07:08:45 AM »

It's old enough and may have spread there with the Beaker settlements of SW Norway. But I was talking about the standard arguments that arise whenever L21 in Scandinavia is discussed. Even one or two of our own Scandinavian L21 guys seem to think all the L21 in Scandinavia is Scottish or Irish.

One of the problems is that a couple of them may actually be of Scottish ancestry.

Naturally, that is used to argue that they all are.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 07:39:49 AM by rms2 » Logged

NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #213 on: June 08, 2010, 05:36:29 PM »

Mr. Duoos just came back CCGG on 464X! L159 is pending.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #214 on: June 08, 2010, 07:58:31 PM »

Mr. Duoos just came back CCGG on 464X! L159 is pending.

What sort of name is Duoos?
Logged

NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #215 on: June 08, 2010, 08:12:34 PM »

It is Norwegian. His family comes from Northern Norway, near Steigen.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #216 on: June 08, 2010, 08:56:37 PM »

It is Norwegian. His family comes from Northern Norway, near Steigen.

Has he been tested for L21 yet?
Logged

NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #217 on: June 08, 2010, 09:34:39 PM »

It is Norwegian. His family comes from Northern Norway, near Steigen.

Has he been tested for L21 yet?
No, not yet. If Mr. Duoos is L159+, then we will definitely pursue a Deep Clade test considering all L159+ members are L21+. 464X and L159 tests are substantially cheaper.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #218 on: June 09, 2010, 10:42:16 PM »

Two folks came back L159+ today:

Cameron (Ardnamurchan, Scotland)
Duoos (Norway)
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #219 on: June 10, 2010, 06:16:47 AM »

I suppose both are CCgg ?

I wonder if I have any ancestors who were Monks?

Are any of R-L159+ guys(besides Me)
a distasnce of/or greater than 47/67 from you?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 06:20:38 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #220 on: June 10, 2010, 10:50:12 AM »

Duoos is CCGG and L159+. Cameron still has to test for 464X.

I have not looked that far into matches on the 40/67 match level. Have you noticed any potential testees?
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #221 on: June 10, 2010, 10:52:42 AM »

Mr. Duoos just came back CCGG on 464X! L159 is pending.

What sort of name is Duoos?

From what I gather, Duoos seems to be an anglicized derivative of Duås or Duaas. This name is found throughout Norway.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mike Walsh
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2964


WWW
« Reply #222 on: June 10, 2010, 11:35:02 AM »

I merged the L159 project info with the R-L21+ project and Ysearch info I have.  Do you see any errors or omissions in the list below?

L159+ and fit with the Irish Sea/Leinster/Lagin haplotype variety:
fN47848   Rudolph Sidney Adams, b.1854; d. Hannover, Germany L159+ 2c2g
f82065   George Baity, b.c.1752, Rowan Co., North Carolina, USA L159+ 2c2g
f66478   Gilbert Baldwin, b NY 1795 L159+ 2c2g
f42452   John or James Beattie, b.c.1700; d.c.1750 L159+ 2c2g
f3055   Adam Beattie, Scotland   L159+ 2c2g
f3032   James Beatty, b bef.1800 Collooney Co.Sligo Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f158241   Charles Betty, b.c.1740, Farnamullan Townland, Co. Fermanagh, Northern Ireland; d.c.1817 L159+ 2c2g
f148922   Loyd Brock, b.1762, USA; d.1834 L159+ 2c2g
f68384   Charles Byrn, b.c.1731, Co. Dublin, Dublin, Ireland died L159+ 3c1g
f5074   Anthony Byrne, b.1656, Upper Clara, Kilkenny, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland; d.1720 L159+ 2c2g
f45482   Brian MacPhelim O'Byrne b.c. 1590 Wicklow Co.    L159+ 3c1g
f31911   John Byrne, b.c.1690, Doonooney, Co. Wexford, Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f73524   John Cameron, b.c.1740, Johnstown, New York, USA L159+
f12691   Samuel Carmack, b.c.1808 L159+ 2c2g
f14738   William Carmack, b.c.1784, Craven Cty, NC L159+ 2c2g
f74201   Dillon, b. Dublin, Co. Dublin, Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f159523   Thomas Dooley, b.1789, Elbert Co., Georgia, USA L159+ 2c2g
f33100   Edward Doty, b.1599, London, London Co., England L159+ 2c2g
f92891   Renatus Downing L159+ 2c2g
f125806   Duoos L159+ 2c2g
f89389   John Ferguson 1832 Scotland-1885 NJ s/o David?    L159+ 2c2g
f151633   John Fitzpatrick, b.c.1800-10, Co. Down, Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f138193   Michael Flynn, b.c.1840's, Co. Galway, Ireland   L159+ 2c2g
fN17860   Patrick Foley, b. Murreagh, Co. Kerry, Ireland L159+ 2c2g
fN38274   Peter Gaston, b.c.1790, Co. Antrim, N.Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f96196   Jose Francisco Vicente Cienfuegos, b.1865, Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA L159+ 2c2g
f9002   Samuel Jordan b. 1818 Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f96585   Patrick Kavanagh, b.c.1780, Rathpierce, Co. Wexford, Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f92117   Philemon Kavanaugh, b.1680, Ireland; d.1744 Virginia L159+ 2c2g
f43474   Hugh Mackenzie, b.c.1774, Fodderty, Ross-shire, Scotland L159+ 2c2g
f85603   Peter McDonald, b. Scotland L159+ 2c2g
f166364   Samuel McFarren, b.1793 L159+ 2c2g
f38554   John McInvale, b.c.1729, Ireland; d. Virginia, USA L159+ 2c2g
f129234   Jacob McKee, b.c.1828, Tennessee, USA L159+ 2c2g
f84037   John McLaughlin, b.1817, Carrickatimpan, Co. Donegal, Ireland L159+ 2c2g
f51942   William Mackgahye, b.1618, Scotland L159+ 2c2g
f85858   Bluett Owen, b.1800; d.1850 L159+ 2c2g
f88224   Philip Quilliam b.c.1604, Peel, Isle of Man L159+ 3c1g
f138281   David Rennie, d.1823, Glasgow, Scotland L159+ 2c2g
f142920   William Richardson, b.c.1670, Eckford, Roxburghshire, Scotland    L159+
f95057   Robert Erwin Robinson, b.1813, South Carolina, USA L159+ 2c2g
f166226   William Ryan, b.1862, Ireland; d.1939 L159+ 2c2g
f55943   Montbronn, b. Moselle, Lorrain, Lorraine/Lothringen, France L159+ 2c2g
f142007   William Shingleton b.c.1754, United Kingdom; d.1849, Virginia, USA L159+ 2c2g
f65178   Loftus Welsh, b.c.1800, Ireland   L159+ 2c2g
fN2553   Edward Weymouth, b.c.1639, Devon, England (Maine) L159+


L159+ but don't fit in the Irish Sea/Leinster/Lagin haplotype variety:
f145899   Michael Manning, b.c.1840's L159+
fN12172   John O'Connor, b.1829;  father Andrew L159+ 3c1g
f169428   William MacKenzie, b.1849 L159+


I checked GD's and it is noticeable that these last 3 guys don't have a similar haplotype... although I won't say they are wildly off though because Irish Sea is not that far off of WAMH anyway.   

What's the latest opinion on the non-Irish Sea L159+?   Are they an early branch off L159+ or are they  parallel mutation of L159+ (i.e 159.3+)?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 11:41:51 AM by Mikewww » Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #223 on: June 10, 2010, 01:10:54 PM »

The most plausible explanation is that the two L159+ members who do not match the Irish Sea modal are a part of a different line; they do not descend from the common ancestor shared by those who firmly match the modal. The last Mackenzie on the list is not L159+, I believe.

The L159 modal is actually characterized by a number of changes from WAMH.

*DYS389i and ii: 14-30 (13-29 WAMH)
*DYS448: 18 (19 WAMH) Furthermore, DYS437= 15 on L159. Samples with 14 on DYS437 are coming back L21-
*DYS442: 11 (12 WAMH)
*DYS446: 14 (13 WAMH)
*DYS557: 17 (16 WAMH)

And of course there is CDY a and b, which are significantly higher on L159+ men. Nevertheless, when one sees a combination of the above markers, that is STRONGLY indicative of L159+ status.

A thorough perusal of databases has found that this cluster is not only found in Leinster/Southern Scotland, but is also present in other areas. Here are a number of surnames that match the modal perfectly, and their areas of MDKA:

Matheson (North Uist, Scotland)
MacSween (Isle of Skye)
Patterson (Chile, assuming Britain before that)
Rix (Norfolk, England)
Jorgensen (Aalborg, Denmark)
Bradley (Berkshire, England)
Green (Yorkshire, England)
Rosenburg (Germany?)
Agee (Nantes, France)
Kirk (Lincolnshire, England)
Palsson (Kristianstad, Sweden)
Mattinson (Durham, England)
Sedeniussen (Troms, Norway)
Griffith (Swansea, Wales)

There are a number of Murphys and a few others with ancestry in Munster and Cork, but the Irish clade is strongly centered around Counties Wexford, Waterford, Kildare and Dublin. In other words, that part of the modal is strictly Leinster. Within the context of the other samples though, the modal can be found throughout Britain and a few areas on the continent.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 01:13:47 PM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



MHammers
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


« Reply #224 on: June 10, 2010, 03:12:19 PM »

With the presence of Scandinavian L159.2+ (and 1 M222+), does this make it more likely for their origin on the continent before the L21s begin moving to the Isles in large numbers?  Or are these iron age and later movements to Scandinavia from the Isles?
Logged

Ydna: R1b-Z253**


Mtdna: T

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


SEO light theme by © Mustang forums. Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC

Page created in 0.106 seconds with 19 queries.