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Author Topic: L159.2 +  (Read 26433 times)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #175 on: May 07, 2010, 08:53:02 AM »

Richardson came back L159+ today!
What's his kit # and Ysearch?  Is he 464x=2c2g?
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
NealtheRed
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« Reply #176 on: May 07, 2010, 12:28:46 PM »

Richardson's Ysearch is A8N5Y. He is on the L159 website, under the category "L159+, 464X Suggested". He has not tested for 464X yet, but I expect him to be CCGG.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #177 on: May 07, 2010, 12:54:25 PM »

Mr Richardson is off my model by 2....  21/23
I'll excuse his Yca11= 19, 22.
That leaves him with 565=11
Me and you have 565=12

Maybe this other person Paton should be considered also?

http://tinyurl.com/2d7e8dn

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

One site has Richardson in the Buchanan Clan.
Do you recognise any L159.2+ scot surnames? http://www.rampantscotland.com/clans/blclanbuchanan.htm
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 01:07:17 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #178 on: May 07, 2010, 01:17:21 PM »

That's interesting, Mike. Buchanan's lands were somewhere near Argyll, eh?

This Richardson's MDKA comes from Eckford, Roxburghshire, Scotland. That is on the border with Northumberland, England.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #179 on: May 07, 2010, 04:56:12 PM »

I was trying to find roots for the surname "Downing"

I found a page of someone you probably have been in contact with.
What connections are you finding in Scotland?
http://www.downens.org/DownenOrigin.htm
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 05:03:24 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #180 on: May 07, 2010, 05:13:57 PM »

Good question.

Of all the Downen's in Ysearch and FTDNA, I match none of them and I believe some are M222.

I even looked at Downies, Downeys and Dineens and none match. I think I'm just the run-of-the-mill Englishman.

My MDKA owned a tavern in Fayetteville, NC in the late 1700s (then known as Campbellton), around Cross Creek. A number of English settlers had businesses in that area; they sailed into Wilmington from England.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 05:18:11 PM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #181 on: May 09, 2010, 09:07:52 AM »

That's interesting, Mike. Buchanan's lands were somewhere near Argyll, eh?

This Richardson's MDKA comes from Eckford, Roxburghshire, Scotland. That is on the border with Northumberland, England.

An interesting History. I think France has been close to Scotland and Ireland for a long time.
7,000 Scots fought in France against King Henry IV of England.(more Irish Monks:)
http://www.rampantscotland.com/clans/blclanbuchanan.htm

It seems they were originally from Northern Ireland.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 09:08:41 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #182 on: May 09, 2010, 10:06:53 AM »

Yeah, weren't those Scots who fought in French regiments called the Royal Ecosse, or something? Excuse my French!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #183 on: May 10, 2010, 06:52:06 PM »

Have you any Duncan's in your matches? I think i have a couple in the 12 number level.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ClanDonnachaidh/default.aspx?section=yresults
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #184 on: May 10, 2010, 10:09:57 PM »

Our Shingleton just came back L159+!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



NealtheRed
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« Reply #185 on: May 11, 2010, 08:18:56 AM »

Have you any Duncan's in your matches? I think i have a couple in the 12 number level.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ClanDonnachaidh/default.aspx?section=yresults

Thanks for letting me know about that project, Mike. While I did not see any Duncans that match the L159 modal, I did see a cadre of Robertsons/Robinsons that match it perfectly. They could all be L159+.

If they are pretty close to you on at least 37 markers it's your call, sir.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 08:20:33 AM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #186 on: May 11, 2010, 03:17:25 PM »

I have a number of Robins/Robbins at 23/25.
Many project participants look very similar to my sequence.
It could be a nest of L159 folk.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Robins/default.aspx?section=yresults


It seems this person has done a lot of thinking.
http://www.tworobins.com/robins.php

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Edit:
My second cousin who is my 36/37 match has 33/37 matches with surnames:

Kilgore
McCorkle
Harper

I'm wonder why none of them show in my matches? Perhaps i am 32/37 with them all?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 04:08:24 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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NealtheRed
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« Reply #187 on: May 11, 2010, 06:17:47 PM »

LOL I read the Robins web page and enjoyed the whole, "Some of us are Vikings and others are Celts from Spain." I wonder how they figured that out?
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #188 on: May 12, 2010, 06:02:06 PM »

I have no idea?

Did you see this
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080527201804.htm

(a little off topic..unless he turns out to be R-L159.2+)
abstract
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002214

Edit:
sorry..I didn't see any y-dna findings.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 06:35:19 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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GoldenHind
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« Reply #189 on: May 12, 2010, 08:17:40 PM »

LOL I read the Robins web page and enjoyed the whole, "Some of us are Vikings and others are Celts from Spain." I wonder how they figured that out?
Perhaps they should have taken their cue from a self-proclaimed expert who figured out a way to be a both Swiss Celt and a Danish Viking.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #190 on: May 12, 2010, 08:41:39 PM »

Yeah, tell me about it! The material on many of these websites is terribly out of date.

P.S. How did he come to that conclusion?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 08:42:22 PM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
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« Reply #191 on: May 13, 2010, 11:02:08 PM »

perhaps pottery?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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GoldenHind
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« Reply #192 on: May 14, 2010, 09:59:55 PM »

Yeah, tell me about it! The material on many of these websites is terribly out of date.

P.S. How did he come to that conclusion?
First he determined that U152 had a hotspot in Switzerland, so he equated them the Hallstatt civilization and proclaimed them the only true Celts. Then he decided that U152 in Britain occurred only in the Danelaw, therefore must be identified solely with Vikings from Denmark. He tied this all together with the idea that the Cimbri were Celts from Denmark, therefore they also must necessarily also be U152.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #193 on: May 15, 2010, 06:11:15 AM »

I think the idea of U152 'real Celts' and the rest of us as somehow much older aboriginals comes from the days when we were divided into M269*, U152 and U106 in the main.  Outside the north Sea Germanic area it looked very like a U152 vs M269* divide with U152 looking more central and M269* more 'Atlantic' as a whole.  However, this all is all disproved now.  We now know that U152 and L21 are the same age and probably had a common ancestor in S116 only a very short time earlier. Indeed, they share a common ancestor wit U106 too (P310/L11) that seems to only be a little older.  That essentially means that at the time of coming into existence there would have been little or no cultural. linguistic etc difference between U152, S116*, L21 and even U106.  Languages would have then developed in geographical/political/contact network lines with no reference whatsoever to clades.  That is not to say that by chance some clades fell much more heavily into one language area or another but it was a long process that led to the division of Indo-European into dialects like Celtic.  It was not something that existed at the point L21. U152 etc were coming into existence.  In addition the idea of an 'Atlantic' group as been exploded by L21 which sharply divides the south Atlantic area (Iberia) from the north Atlantic area (NW France, Ireland, Atlantic Britain). 

In the historic Celtic world it seems that there was less U106 and more L21, S116* and U152 and that those varied wildly in terms of proportion across the Celtic world but there is no way one of them can claim to be the most Celtic one.  The Celts of Iberia were clearly mainly S116* and subclades while in northern France and the isles they may have been mainly L21, in the Alps area U152 may have been the largest clade etc.  These area swhere one clade predominates seem to me to be the edges of the Celtic world.  I suspect there was a large central area where all the clades are found in a more even mix.  You can see the mixed area in well sampled SW Germany and adjacent on project maps.  I suspect the mixed area stretched from Central France through south Germany.  
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 06:41:41 AM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
NealtheRed
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« Reply #194 on: May 15, 2010, 08:14:43 AM »

Weymouth came back L159+ today!

I agree with you guys though. The presence of P312 and U106 in different places around Europe supports mixed-clade population back in Celto-Germanic times. U106 is more localized though, I think.

I still don't know how someone could link Celts to Jutland. That is where Proto-Germanic evolved.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #195 on: May 15, 2010, 08:24:25 AM »

Weymouth came back L159+ today!

I agree with you guys though. The presence of P312 and U106 in different places around Europe supports mixed-clade population back in Celto-Germanic times. U106 is more localized though, I think.

I still don't know how someone could link Celts to Jutland. That is where Proto-Germanic evolved.

A lot of guys in my generation grew up watching The Vikings and thinking the Vikings were the ultimate in macho cool.

Vking wannabe-ism is pretty plainly an aspect of y-dna testing. Some guys will never give it up.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #196 on: May 15, 2010, 08:56:13 AM »

It's just a romantic image that we are all familiar with. For some reason, Vikings get more advertising than any other European population.

I think most of the contemporary images of Vikings are over-exaggerated as, like you said, machismo.

When my dad was stationed in Germany he visited a Viking drakkar exhibition in Denmark. To his surprise the row setup in the boat was for people who were no taller than 5'7". If they were any taller, the rows would have hit the person in front of them.

Ahh, I guess Vikings weren't all Magnus Samuelssons like we would have them be.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 08:59:32 AM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #197 on: May 15, 2010, 09:20:51 AM »

Well, I don't mind admitting that when I first ordered my original 37-marker test I was hoping for a result that would shout, "Descendant of Vikings!", loud and clear. But when that didn't happen, and when my matches turned out to be all West Midlands English, Welsh, Scots, and Irish, I slowly but surely surrendered the Viking thing as a fantasy of childhood.

But I still like the film.

;-)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 09:22:12 AM by rms2 » Logged

NealtheRed
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« Reply #198 on: May 15, 2010, 10:06:24 AM »

Well, I don't mind admitting that when I first ordered my original 37-marker test I was hoping for a result that would shout, "Descendant of Vikings!", loud and clear. But when that didn't happen, and when my matches turned out to be all West Midlands English, Welsh, Scots, and Irish, I slowly but surely surrendered the Viking thing as a fantasy of childhood.

But I still like the film.

;-)

LOL you're hilarious. Didn't we all? But that's what makes this hobby fun!

I am sure that at some point on our respective lines, all of us had chieftain ancestors until they were deposed by someone who got screwed before!

You know that at first glance your haplotype looks U106-ish? Hahaha I bet when you got your result: "Wtf"?
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #199 on: May 15, 2010, 10:13:21 AM »

Well, I don't mind admitting that when I first ordered my original 37-marker test I was hoping for a result that would shout, "Descendant of Vikings!", loud and clear. But when that didn't happen, and when my matches turned out to be all West Midlands English, Welsh, Scots, and Irish, I slowly but surely surrendered the Viking thing as a fantasy of childhood.

But I still like the film.

;-)

LOL you're hilarious. Didn't we all? But that's what makes this hobby fun!

I am sure that at some point on our respective lines, all of us had chieftain ancestors until they were deposed by someone who got screwed before!

You know that at first glance your haplotype looks U106-ish? Hahaha I bet when you got your result: "Wtf"?

Oh, yeah. I have matches at 25 markers and under with U106+ guys, and just about everyone expected me to be U106+ (S21+ in those days), including Dr. Jim Wilson.

My 492=12 was the first signal that something was amiss with the U106+ prognostication, however.

The whole point of my last couple of posts was that Viking wannabe-ism is pretty widespread. I understand it because I had a mild case of it, which was cured by truth slapping me across the chops.

Some guys won't face the unpleasant facts, though. Instead they will turn intellectual somersaults and cartwheels trying to get their y-dna ancestor into Scandinavia somewhere and thence to the British Isles in time to be a Viking.
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