World Families Forums - L159.2 +

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 27, 2014, 07:03:09 PM
Home Help Search Login Register

+  World Families Forums
|-+  General Forums - Note: You must Be Logged In to post. Anyone can browse.
| |-+  R1b General (Moderator: rms2)
| | |-+  L159.2 +
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 12 Go Down Print
Author Topic: L159.2 +  (Read 27029 times)
NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2010, 07:49:46 PM »

There are O'Tooles who are in the Leinster cluster.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2010, 01:15:36 PM »

These Leinster names(and many more)..Byrne, Ryan, O'Toole, Murphy, O'Connor claim descent from a 2nd century Leinster King Cathair Mor.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/leinster.htm
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 01:18:34 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2010, 02:36:00 PM »

These Leinster names(and many more)..Byrne, Ryan, O'Toole, Murphy, O'Connor claim descent from a 2nd century Leinster King Cathair Mor.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/leinster.htm

I like that site. Also, if you look at the early history of the Laigin, apparently they were North Gallic tribes moving into Britain and Ireland due to Roman pressure. Now, there are a number of explanations to the DNA, but one theory could be Belgic tribes settling in the east of Ireland.

We have a number of continental matches to the Leinster cluster that aggregate along the northern border of Gaul on the Rhine. There are a few Dutch surnames that match, as well as some Germans/French near Trier.

That there be Belgic territory. That's one scenario, but I think the input to Ireland came from North Gaul, from the lower Rhine through Normandy and Northwest Gaul.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2010, 05:02:58 PM »

I would like some Murphy's with 393=12 and 464=15 15 16 16...to test for L159.

Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2010, 05:16:30 PM »

Let's get 'em on board. If these folks are close to you then we should get them tested.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2010, 12:57:57 AM »

I'm not sure if they can contact the Leinster (in green)group seperately?
http://www.pricegen.com/murphy.html
Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #81 on: February 24, 2010, 01:06:38 AM »

Well, if we just get one that is representative of the group as whole to test, then that should tell us if the others could be L159+.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #82 on: February 24, 2010, 01:29:24 AM »

if you never tested for L21...can you skip it and test for L159?
Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #83 on: February 24, 2010, 10:21:00 AM »

You sure can.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



bart otoole
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2010, 06:09:52 PM »

There are O'Tooles who are in the Leinster cluster.

My adopted dad's family is O'Toole - Wicklow, Glendaloch, St. Lawrence, Powerscourt, and all that stuff. His line left for America in the 1830's.

Me, on the other hand, seems to be northern Ireland L21 null 425.  Clan Collas group, I guess.

Bart O'Toole
Logged

yDNA L21+ null 425


mtDNA T2e

NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2010, 07:48:55 PM »

Thanks for pointing that out, Bart. I think it is very interesting that different areas in Ireland have different ancestry. One could have the same surname as someone in the north of Ireland, but not be related at all - all within R1b-L21.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mike Walsh
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2964


WWW
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2010, 07:53:31 PM »

Thanks for pointing that out, Bart. I think it is very interesting that different areas in Ireland have different ancestry. One could have the same surname as someone in the north of Ireland, but not be related at all - all within R1b-L21.
Or one could have the same surname as someone in the same village and not be related at all - all within R-L21.  I see it all the time in surname projects.
Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2010, 08:17:16 PM »

Mike,

When did Ireland start using surnames? It was after Britain, right?
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mike Walsh
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2964


WWW
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2010, 09:05:44 PM »

Mike,
When did Ireland start using surnames? It was after Britain, right?

Not soon enough is all I know.  I've heard that the English pushed the idea across the Isles. 

On our Wales project, there is a report that the Welsh were not happy with having to take a permanent surname so some protested by having everyone in the same town take the same surname!

Here is another oddity.  During Cromwell's time, there were a number of new laws trying to English-ize the Irish.  Some of the old Anglo-Normans in Ireland dropped their Norman names and took up Gaelic names, partly giving rise to the old cliche about the Anglo-Normans ... "They were more Irish than the Irish themselves."
Logged

R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2010, 11:14:35 PM »

Mike,
When did Ireland start using surnames? It was after Britain, right?

Not soon enough is all I know.  I've heard that the English pushed the idea across the Isles. 

On our Wales project, there is a report that the Welsh were not happy with having to take a permanent surname so some protested by having everyone in the same town take the same surname!

Here is another oddity.  During Cromwell's time, there were a number of new laws trying to English-ize the Irish.  Some of the old Anglo-Normans in Ireland dropped their Norman names and took up Gaelic names, partly giving rise to the old cliche about the Anglo-Normans ... "They were more Irish than the Irish themselves."


Do you think that the Norman surnames that are a part of the Irish Sea Modal are all native Irish?
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2010, 08:19:02 AM »

The cluster may well have been amonst both peoples.
Perhaps even before people were called Normans.

Some may have become Nornams. Some Normans may have already been in the cluster.

Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2010, 11:11:07 PM »

A McFerren came back L159+. His line is from Scotland.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2010, 04:36:18 PM »

 McFerren households in the Primary Valuation property survey of 1847-64.
  Co. Down  2 

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/     
Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2010, 05:22:44 PM »

McFerren households in the Primary Valuation property survey of 1847-64.
  Co. Down  2 

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/     


Good information, O'Connor. Is that a total of McFerrens in Ireland, or just in County Down? If the surname is in Northern Ireland, maybe Scots brought it there.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2010, 05:25:50 AM »

The number of  households in each county in the Primary Valuation property survey of 1847-64.

I suppose it is only property owners?

Scroll a little down the page to the
Ancestor Surname Window.
Enter any surname. Most results also have
"view surname history"
For a little added fun.
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 05:28:49 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2010, 07:56:56 PM »

The first person with confirmed continental ancestry joined the L159 Project today. The surname is Schneider, and the MDKA is from Montbronn, France in the Lorraine region. Mr. Schneider is also CCGG on 464X.
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Jdean
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 678


« Reply #96 on: March 08, 2010, 08:03:54 PM »

The first person with confirmed continental ancestry joined the L159 Project today. The surname is Schneider, and the MDKA is from Montbronn, France in the Lorraine region. Mr. Schneider is also CCGG on 464X.

Congrats

You've been waiting a while to find a gent with these credentials
Logged

Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

OConnor
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 676


« Reply #97 on: March 08, 2010, 08:49:47 PM »

where are all the L159+ CCCg Guys?
Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

12 24 14 10 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 18


NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #98 on: March 08, 2010, 09:12:54 PM »

The first person with confirmed continental ancestry joined the L159 Project today. The surname is Schneider, and the MDKA is from Montbronn, France in the Lorraine region. Mr. Schneider is also CCGG on 464X.

Congrats

You've been waiting a while to find a gent with these credentials


Thanks, JDean! Yeah, it has been a long wait, but worth it!
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



NealtheRed
Old Hand
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 930


« Reply #99 on: March 08, 2010, 09:15:04 PM »

where are all the L159+ CCCg Guys?

There is a separate category in the L159 Project for CCCG L159+ folks. Our Quilliam (FitzWilliam) is CCCG, as well as yourself, Mike!
Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 12 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


SEO light theme by © Mustang forums. Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC

Page created in 0.115 seconds with 17 queries.