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Author Topic: the need to help fund non-personal continental L21 testing  (Read 7473 times)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2009, 04:44:18 PM »

Maybe we should get Mel Gibson tested.   If he is L21* we'll sure pick up the Scots.

I thought we were trying to encourage the French to join, we've got Isles L21's coming out of our ears. What about Gérard Depardieu?
You are right.  How about Charles de Gaulle or Napoleon?  Any good old movies with either of those two as a hero?
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2009, 04:49:17 PM »

Maybe we should get Mel Gibson tested.   If he is L21* we'll sure pick up the Scots.

I thought we were trying to encourage the French to join, we've got Isles L21's coming out of our ears. What about Gérard Depardieu?
How about Zinedine Zidane?  Looks like he might have some ancestors who would have given Casaer a rough time.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2009, 06:26:05 PM »

I can see him head-butting through Roman legions already.
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rms2
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« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2009, 07:30:02 PM »

Updating the "L21 Pending" list:

1. Beer - Switzerland
2. Conrardy - Luxembourg
3. Doucet - France
4. Dvorak - Czech Republic
5. Goblirsch - Czech Republic
6. Hugenholtz - Germany
7. Lemaire - France
8. Svoboda - Czech Republic
9. Szakacs - Hungary


Londry, who was on the list last time I posted it, went L21+. :-)

We added Doucet, whose ancestor came from Sedan in NE France.

I can't guarantee any of these guys will be L21+, but we'll find out.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 08:09:20 PM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2009, 08:05:05 PM »

Updating the "L21 Pending" list:
1. Beer - Switzerland
2. Conrardy - Luxembourg
3. Doucet - France
4. Dvorak - Czech Republic
5. Goblirsch - Czech Republic
6. Hugenholtz - Germany
7. Lemaire - France
8. Svoboda - Czech Republic
9. Szakacs - Hungary

That is a good spread.  It will be especially interesting to see if the Czechs are L21.  There were apparently Celtic chiefdoms in that area with links to SW Germany and eastern France.  
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 08:10:09 PM by rms2 » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2009, 08:17:56 PM »


That is a good spread.  It will be especially interesting to see if the Czechs are L21.  There were apparently Celtic chiefdoms in that area with links to SW Germany and eastern France.  

Thanks. Once again we are just throwing our line out in the water to see if we get any bites. Nobody on that list really jumps out as assuredly L21+.

Conrardy comes closest, since he has that 406S1=11, 617=13 combo that seems to be indicative of L21+ status. The fact that his closest match at 67 markers (56/67 and also 406S1=11, 617=13) just went L21+ a couple of days ago is also a hopeful sign (but I didn't know that would happen when I recruited Conrardy).

I sure would be happy if everybody on that list went L21+!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 08:22:21 PM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2009, 05:17:37 PM »

I never really noticed before but for a small country 3 L21s on the project map in Swizerland  already gives the impression that there is a lot of L21 there.  There are only 2 S116* in the project map so 3 out of 5 L21 tests is a good hit rate.  OK there is currently significantly more S28 and S21 but given the time lag in testing availability there seems no reason why L21 might not catch up.  The Swiss L21 seems to link with SE French L21. 

The real place that stands out for me as the most undertested country in western Europe (in cold ware terminology) is Switzerland's neighbour Austria.  
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 05:19:04 PM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
rms2
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« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2009, 07:42:15 PM »

I never really noticed before but for a small country 3 L21s on the project map in Swizerland  already gives the impression that there is a lot of L21 there.  There are only 2 S116* in the project map so 3 out of 5 L21 tests is a good hit rate.  OK there is currently significantly more S28 and S21 but given the time lag in testing availability there seems no reason why L21 might not catch up.  The Swiss L21 seems to link with SE French L21.  

The real place that stands out for me as the most undertested country in western Europe (in cold ware terminology) is Switzerland's neighbour Austria.  

A number of our project members have matches on their Y-DNA Matches pages with Swiss email addresses (.ch). I have been tempted to offer them free tests, but the matches are generally low resolution (12 and 25 markers), so I was a bit hesitant. Maybe if we get some more contributions we could venture into the Alps a bit.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 07:42:49 PM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2009, 10:08:19 AM »

I actually think the new 67 marker L21* spreadsheet highlights even more critically how the continent is undersampled.  Not only has there been 10 times the testing for L21 in the isles than France for example, but continental Europe is only lightly cover by 67 marker people in a sea of isles folk.   
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rms2
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« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2009, 08:05:17 AM »

Updating the "L21 Pending" list.

1. Banaszak - Poland
2. Doucet - France
3. Dvorak - Czech Republic
4. Goblirsch - Czech Republic
5. Hugenholtz - Germany
6. Lemaire - France
7. Svoboda - Czech Republic
8. Szakacs - Hungary


Off the last list, Conrardy of Luxembourg went L21+, and, sadly, Beer of Switzerland went L21-.

We added Banaszak of Poland, which is a real roll of the dice, since he has a haplotype that looks HT35. But his only exact 12-marker match in YSearch is Briskey, who is L21+ and whom I also found in the Polish Project, so I thought we should go for it.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as they say.

FTDNA had to send Lemaire a new test kit, so we may be waiting another month or two for his results.

By the way, you would not believe the number of people I have tried to recruit and to whom I offered free L21 tests who just never responded.

Oh, one more thing. I regard much of this list as risky. France and Germany have been pretty fertile ground for L21+, but we are sticking our necks out testing Eastern Europeans, in my opinion. But if we don't try, we'll never know.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 08:12:58 AM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2009, 05:21:00 AM »

I notice funds for continental L21 testing have dried up again.  That is a pity because the steady stream of L21 testing and pending is pretty well what keep us interested.  My two rootsweb appeals do not seem to have exactly caused an avalanch of donations for this so I think a new approach is needed.  I personally think on a 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' basis that a global email to all the L21 project members asking for donations for L21 testing might at least bring in enough for a few more tests.  I also wonder now that L21 is proving to be a really big clade in France with a very good chance of a positive result, that a hard sell on the  French heriitage R1b1b2 folk would get a few more to pay for their own tests.  Maybe worth emailing them the L21 map and emphasing the potential Gaulish angle which I think probably would be appealing.   

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rms2
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« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2009, 09:32:09 AM »

I notice funds for continental L21 testing have dried up again.  That is a pity because the steady stream of L21 testing and pending is pretty well what keep us interested.  My two rootsweb appeals do not seem to have exactly caused an avalanch of donations for this so I think a new approach is needed.  I personally think on a 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' basis that a global email to all the L21 project members asking for donations for L21 testing might at least bring in enough for a few more tests.  I also wonder now that L21 is proving to be a really big clade in France with a very good chance of a positive result, that a hard sell on the  French heriitage R1b1b2 folk would get a few more to pay for their own tests.  Maybe worth emailing them the L21 map and emphasing the potential Gaulish angle which I think probably would be appealing.    

Okay, I just finished sending a bulk email to all the R-L21 Plus Project members (well, all those who still allow themselves to get emails from me) appealing for donations. Of course, it won't go out until FTDNA approves it, but I think they will.

Appeals to the members of the French Heritage DNA Project are a bit different because I have to work through its Group Administrator, and I suspect he might be getting a little tired of hearing from me. It seems I am bugging him on a pretty regular basis to email this or that new French R-L21* to join our project, and I recently hit him up for an appeal on behalf of the Normandy Y-DNA Project, as well.

But I'll give it a shot. I hope I don't wear out what little store of good will he has left for me!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 09:32:39 AM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2009, 02:04:24 PM »

I think the French Heritage project ought to be helpful considering that the L21 project funded some tests and at the same time demonstrated that L21 is very common in France, possibly the French modal.  That IMO has contributed significantly to our understanding of France past/heritage. I would hope the L21 projects efforts are appreciated. 

As I posted before, I also hope that a critical mass is being reached wherebye the amount of French L21 in itself attracts more to test for L21 as it slowly but surely looks more and more like a very common French marker rather than just an isles one.   
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rms2
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« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2009, 03:00:55 PM »

I think the French Heritage project ought to be helpful considering that the L21 project funded some tests and at the same time demonstrated that L21 is very common in France, possibly the French modal.  That IMO has contributed significantly to our understanding of France past/heritage. I would hope the L21 projects efforts are appreciated.  

As I posted before, I also hope that a critical mass is being reached wherebye the amount of French L21 in itself attracts more to test for L21 as it slowly but surely looks more and more like a very common French marker rather than just an isles one.  

I just finished sending an email to the Group Administrator of the French Heritage DNA Project. Hopefully he will send along my plea to his R1b members urging them to order the Deep Clade-R test.

I wish the world economy was a little better (for this and many other reasons).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 05:25:48 PM by rms2 » Logged

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