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Author Topic: New SNP Downstream of L21  (Read 12186 times)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2009, 06:02:56 PM »

Here is what Thomas Krahn wrote to Kirsten Saxe, one of the co-admins. for the Leinster group:

"Dear Kirsten,

...Other R-P312, R-L21, R-M222 WTY participants are L159.2 ancestral so far.
 
Thomas"

Would someone explain what this exactly means for sure?
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
NealtheRed
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« Reply #76 on: October 02, 2009, 06:04:39 PM »

Thomas just said that the others who were involved in WTY testing all were negative for L159. That included members who were P312*, L21*, and M222.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mark Jost
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« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2009, 06:10:45 PM »

Ahhh those who already have completed WTY testing so far are negative. Got it. I was reading into it incorrectly. Thanks.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mike Walsh
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« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2009, 06:31:14 PM »

There are now 6 L159+ men.
My understanding is that FitzWilliams is L159+ while being 464x 3c1g.  That implies that L159 within L21 maybe be a little broader than a few clans.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
NealtheRed
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« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2009, 06:35:08 PM »

Indeed! Maybe FitzWilliam's ancestors were Gaelic settlers in the Isle of Man?
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Jdean
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« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2009, 08:12:50 PM »

Those other testees for WTY tested negative, but I don't know their surnames or geographical location.

Nevertheless, I'm sure this SNP will split Ireland L21.

So far there have only been 3 results back from WTY fot L21 , the L159 result, somebody who is M222 but negative for L159, and a member of the Scots cluster, also I believe negative for this SNP
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

NealtheRed
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« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2009, 11:06:08 PM »

Yes, it will be interesting to see who tests negative for L159 and who tests positive for it.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mike Walsh
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« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2009, 08:53:36 AM »

Are any of Robert Hughe's 17-14-10 / Wales modal 1 cluster in the WTY or doing an L159 test?   I just noticed a pattern holds across both this cluster and the Leinster cluster.  It may be nothing, but this loose pattern holds across these two groups and not to many other L21* guys.  They are on both sides of the Irish Sea.  Of course, maybe I'm seeing things.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
NealtheRed
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« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2009, 09:03:32 AM »

You know, we only have one man with Welsh ancestry in the project (Owen). There has to be more, like you said with Wales's location on the Irish Sea. What pattern are you seeing?
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mark Jost
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« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2009, 02:06:59 PM »

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beatty_Byrnes_DNA/message/2369
states the guys who went positive on L159 so far.

"Who exactly tested positive for L159?
 
 3032 Peter Beattie                 L159+
14738 Hubert Carmack                L159+
88224 Ian Lansbury Fitzwilliam      L159+
92117 Ben Kavanaugh                 L159+
96585 John Gerald Kavanagh          L159+"
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2009, 02:16:28 PM »

Now that is interesting. 14738 also has a DYS531=12.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
NealtheRed
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« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2009, 02:32:57 PM »

Now that is interesting. 14738 also has a DYS531=12.

I'm missing something. Lol
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mark Jost
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« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2009, 02:49:23 PM »

11 allele appears to be ancestral (11 is L21 modal) to the 12 value in R-L21 and possibly continental originated and is mostly in the East Isle. Every one that I have asked to test for L21 who has the 12 count has turned positive. It appears to be rare in U106 and is only around 6% in the entire FtDNA Database. Just an informal project.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
NealtheRed
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« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2009, 02:59:48 PM »

That's a good observation there, sir.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Mark Jost
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« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2009, 03:43:18 PM »

If DYS531=12 which is a slow mutator, may have spawned in middle Rhine but in running a query on Ysearch resulted in very little continental 531=12 R-L21 hits. Check out the R-L21's in all locations.

http://tinyurl.com/CGZMG-L21only

So my quest may prove the founder may have originated continental but expanded in the Isles only. Although it is possible to have parallel lines have mutations in the same recent Hg but it would be extremely rare since it has a very slow mutation rate. Just a guess really.
Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
rms2
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« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2009, 04:07:35 PM »

Looks pretty good, but I did find a few with 531=12 in the U152 Project:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b1c10/default.aspx?section=yresults

But 531=12 does appear to be a lot more common in R-L21 than in the U152 clades.

We have a few guys with 531=9. I did not see any of that in U152, just 11 and a few with 12.
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rms2
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« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2009, 04:13:04 PM »

Looks pretty good, but I did find a few with 531=12 in the U152 Project:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b1c10/default.aspx?section=yresults

But 531=12 does appear to be a lot more common in R-L21 than in the U152 clades.

We have a few guys with 531=9. I did not see any of that in U152, just 11 and a few with 12.


I found just one in the R1b1b2a1b3 (SRY2627+) Project :

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b1c6/default.aspx?section=yresults

Otherwise, they're all 531=11.

There are a few R-P312* who have 531=12, too:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?section=yresults

Looks like 531=12 is a fair indicator of L21+, if not an infallible one.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 04:17:21 PM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2009, 04:27:23 PM »

Looks pretty good, but I did find a few with 531=12 in the U152 Project:
But 531=12 does appear to be a lot more common in R-L21 than in the U152 clades.
We have a few guys with 531=9. I did not see any of that in U152, just 11 and a few with 12.

That could be very handy when picking L21 testing candidates in suspected high S28 areas like Switzerland, north Italy, perhaps Belgium etc. 
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2009, 04:31:33 PM »

I have 11 at DYS531.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2009, 04:32:32 PM »

Quote from: alan trowel hands. link=topic=8966.msg113246#msg113246

That could be very handy when picking L21 testing candidates in suspected high S28 areas like Switzerland, north Italy, perhaps Belgium etc.  

Yes, for those candidates with 67 markers it could. Unfortunately, 531 is marker #38 in FTDNA's line-up.

One problem I have encountered is that there are not a lot of Belgians who have tested with FTDNA. There is a load of them who have tested with other companies, including one out of Leuven, but they would have to buy an STR test from FTDNA and wait for the results of that before even thinking about SNP testing (if they want to join our project, anyway).
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 04:32:49 PM by rms2 » Logged

Mark Jost
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« Reply #95 on: October 03, 2009, 05:02:11 PM »

Both groups have only 1 to 2% with a 12 allele so very rare in U152 and subclade xb4c and 2627 group. L21 is running over 6%.
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
Mark Jost
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« Reply #96 on: October 03, 2009, 05:10:27 PM »

There were more P312* that had 531=12 a few months ago but I got some to upgrade and went L21+

Looks pretty good, but I did find a few with 531=12 in the U152 Project:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b1c10/default.aspx?section=yresults

But 531=12 does appear to be a lot more common in R-L21 than in the U152 clades.

We have a few guys with 531=9. I did not see any of that in U152, just 11 and a few with 12.


I found just one in the R1b1b2a1b3 (SRY2627+) Project :

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b1c6/default.aspx?section=yresults

Otherwise, they're all 531=11.

There are a few R-P312* who have 531=12, too:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/default.aspx?section=yresults

Looks like 531=12 is a fair indicator of L21+, if not an infallible one.
Logged

148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
NealtheRed
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« Reply #97 on: October 03, 2009, 05:14:08 PM »

Then maybe my haplotype is just old!?
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #98 on: October 03, 2009, 05:15:35 PM »

There were more P312* that had 531=12 a few months ago but I got some to upgrade and went L21+

The ones I was talking about I pulled from the L21- categories. I don't call someone R-P312* unless he is negative for all the established P312+ clades, including L21.

It's true 531=12 is more common in L21+ than apparently anywhere else, but it is not a slam dunk. (I wish it were!)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 05:17:33 PM by rms2 » Logged

cmblandford
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« Reply #99 on: October 03, 2009, 05:19:04 PM »

Quote
I have 11 at DYS531.

So do I
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Y-DNA:  R-DF13*


Surname Project:  Blandford

Kit:  ft115893   Ysearch:  EYSPZ


Earliest Known Ancestor:  Thomas Blanford; Dorset, England; born 1648


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