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Author Topic: R1b-L21's Cohen Modal Haplotype  (Read 1598 times)
pcusack1
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« on: August 06, 2009, 01:02:01 AM »



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Re: The Origin of L21
« Reply #88 on: Today at 03:34:19 PM »    Reply with quote Modify message Remove message
There are Cohen Modal Haplotypes that are R1b's -both Ashkenasi ands Sephardic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

The Coyen's in Ireland are thought to be a variation on Cohen besides the Irish version.  I'm a GD of 4 on 33 markers on a Coyne and am an L21/s145.
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rms2
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 09:37:53 AM »

There is no "L21 Cohen Modal Haplotype".

The Irish surname Coyne, which is the anglicization of the Gaelic O Cadhain, sometimes appears as Coen, Cohen or Cohan. Those versions give it a superficial resemblance to the well known Jewish surname Cohen, but there is no real connection there.

There is one very distinctive L21 haplotype cluster that at present appears to be entirely Ashkenazi Jewish, with the marker values 388=11, 392=14, 459b=9, and 464c=15. But thus far it has not been found in Ireland or anywhere even close to Ireland (it is Eastern European), and has no known connection to the "Cohen Modal Haplotype" or the levitical priesthood.

You are probably getting Irish haplotype neighbors not because your y-dna is Jewish but because it is Irish.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 09:41:46 AM by rms2 » Logged

pcusack1
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 04:37:23 PM »

Thank you.  I agree with you totally.  I think the Coyne mathc is the Irish version.  I'm Celtic most likely since my Y DNA shows matches form Western Russia and Khazachstan to Eastern Spain and N.Portugal; north to Denmark and of course SW Ireland.  That's Celtic.

The thing that was throwing me off is that my mother's maternal line and my father's maternal lien are showing  Ashkenasi Jews.  I'm not sure why.

Thank you for all your help.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 12:27:02 AM »


There is one very distinctive L21 haplotype cluster that at present appears to be entirely Ashkenazi Jewish, with the marker values 388=11, 392=14, 459b=9, and 464c=15. But thus far it has not been found in Ireland or anywhere even close to Ireland (it is Eastern European), and has no known connection to the "Cohen Modal Haplotype" or the levitical priesthood.

You are probably getting Irish haplotype neighbors not because your y-dna is Jewish but because it is Irish.


It's very interesting that there are L21 Ashkenazi  Jews as an L21 myself.  As I've written, both my father's maternal line and my mother's maternal line are both Ashkenasi genetically. 

I have the 388=11 and 459=9, but my 464=13,16,19. I don''t have a result for 392. Genebase doesn't test it.

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pcusack1
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 12:32:41 AM »


There is one very distinctive L21 haplotype cluster that at present appears to be entirely Ashkenazi Jewish, with the marker values 388=11, 392=14, 459b=9, and 464c=15. But thus far it has not been found in Ireland or anywhere even close to Ireland (it is Eastern European), and has no known connection to the "Cohen Modal Haplotype" or the levitical priesthood.

You are probably getting Irish haplotype neighbors not because your y-dna is Jewish but because it is Irish.


At a GD of 3, I show a strong match to Western Russia on an Indigenous population analysis: 

Matches at a Genetic Distance of 3:
Population Set    # Matches    Population Size    Match %
Tambovskaja, Western Russia    19    47    40.43%
Orlovskaja, Western Russia    14    41    34.15%
Tverskaja, Western Russia    12    43    27.91%
Central Poland    70    255    27.45%
Central Poland    70    255    27.45%
Penzenskaja, Western Russia    20    80    25.00%
Smolenskaja, Western Russia    10    42    23.81%
Iwanovskaja, Western Russia    9    39    23.08%
Lithuanian, Northeastern Poland    28    124    22.58%
Ibiza (Balearic Islands)    21    96    21.88%
Podlasie, Northeastern Poland    37    181    20.44%
Mansi from Northwest Siberia    5    25    20.00%
Ryazanskaja, Western Russia    7    35    20.00%

I thought this strange for an L21.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 01:18:27 AM »

I show a match to a Moses Lewis Lubinsky (B2BNR) of Lithuania witha GD of 6 on 36 markers.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 01:18:47 AM by pcusack1 » Logged
vineviz
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 04:11:57 PM »


There are Cohen Modal Haplotypes that are R1b's -both Ashkenasi ands Sephardic.


There are no "Cohen Modal Haplotypes" in R1b.

The Cohen Modal Haplotype is a very specific STR profile which is common in haplogroup J1 and to a lesser extent in J2.  But some of the STR values are super rare in R1b (DYS388=16, in particular) such that none of the 1700+ members of the R1b project at FTDNA are even close to the CMH.

Perhaps you meant only that there are some Jewish Cohens in haplogroup R1b.  If so, you wouldn't want to say they are CMH unless they have the specific haplotype (which they don't).

VV
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pcusack1
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 07:55:34 PM »

Yes that what I should have said. I think the Coyne's are R1b Cohen's as per wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

What do you think?

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pcusack1
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 10:19:54 AM »

After some more researching, it is certain that the Coyne's (HJBCE) are S. Irish Type 3's (DUJ67). They are a pefect match on 32 markers to the modal haplotype. 

Irish Type III's orignated with Brian Boru and the Dalcassian Clan  the O'Brien's.  Interesting that the O'Brien's are listed as Jewish Surname in the "Jewish Surnames Index", whereas they are certianly indigenous Irish.
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pcusack1
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2009, 04:41:55 PM »

I show a match to a Moses Lewis Lubinsky (B2BNR) of Lithuania witha GD of 6 on 36 markers.

Sorry, this I. s an error. Please ignore.
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