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Author Topic: Blood of the Isles by Bryan Sykes  (Read 1195 times)
pswitzertatum
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« on: March 02, 2009, 02:55:09 AM »

I just read the book Blood of the Isles by Bryan Sykes about Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and England's genetic history as he sees it, which I found to be very interesting but also somewhat confusing. Perhaps those of you who have read this already have already discussed it? I am confused about how to reconcile or correlate Sykes's use of "clans" and his other explanatory terms with what I have read of FTDNA's terms like haplogroups and haplotypes in the packet my husband received from his 37 marker Y-DNA test results. Are there other books on DNA and the "isles" genetic history that might be better? I have read a review about a book by Oppenheimer on the same topic, but it sounds even more complex. Thanks for any suggestions.
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rms2
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 08:34:35 PM »

Sykes' book is seriously out of date. He and Oppenheimer relied on very short haplotypes (six markers) and the wrongheaded assumption that R1b was in Iberia during the last Ice Age and repopulated Europe from there.
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Jake H
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »

If Sykes is the premier researcher in matrilineal mitochondrial genotype allolele how canhis 7 Daugters of Eve and their 35 sub-groupings be wrong?. If ya recall he found an identical matrilineal match 'tween Otzi the Ice man and his red-haired Irish lab tech.

This tells me, you don't have a clue as to what was involved ín this discovery. Sykes is able to go back much further than the suppose dating of Adam, but, the kicker here is the Bible is the family history of the Adam + Eve family to which all folks born after Adam + Eve belong to.

To narrow it down more specifically, after the Great Flood, all inhabltants on the globe are descended for Noah + his sons, and their wives. What some folk call 'junk DNA'i s the remnant DNA from all those past 1,000s of years prior to Adam.Thie discovery of the spectrum of Blood Typing's ICW DNA has led to the shotrtcutting ya found. If ya botheed to check the Blood Typologies that Sykes makes use of in ref to his 35 sub-groupings derived from the 7 Daughtes 0f Eve,  ya still gotta go out from matrilineal mitochondria.

Use of patrilineal DNA is a no-brainer. Men can impregnate 1,000s of women in their life time. Just check our the claim Wilt Chamberlain made, he said he had sex with 20,000 women. Women are very conservative by nature and only have 1 baby at a time, usually sired by the same male, and on average will be pregnant 8-10 times if they are not using the loop, the , or a diaphraghm.

The average 10 times is to allow for those women who have more than 10 kids, which is quite small and the rest of the spectrum.  For you to say Sykes is wrong without scholarly researched proof is just a case of sourgrapes, IMHO.

 
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vineviz
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2009, 02:46:36 PM »

If Sykes is the premier researcher in matrilineal mitochondrial genotype allolele how canhis 7 Daugters of Eve and their 35 sub-groupings be wrong?

That's an easy one:  he isn't the premier researcher of ANY type of DNA.  And even premier researchers can be wrong.

VV
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Jean M
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 10:13:46 AM »

If ya recall he found an identical matrilineal match 'tween Otzi the Ice man and his red-haired Irish lab tech.

He can't have done. Otzi carried a previously unknown subclade of mtDNA K1, which has been named K1ö for Ötzi.

If Sykes had anything to do with Ötzi, I can't see any reference to it in print. The only publication on Ötzi's mtDNA that I know of is Rollo et al, Fine characterization of the iceman's mtDNA haplogroup, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, vol. 130 (2006), pp. 557-564.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 10:36:36 AM by Jean M » Logged
Jean M
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« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2009, 10:36:07 AM »

Sykes is able to go back much further than the suppose dating of Adam, but, the kicker here is the Bible is the family history of the Adam + Eve family to which all folks born after Adam + Eve belong to. To narrow it down more specifically, after the Great Flood, all inhabitants on the globe are descended for Noah + his sons, and their wives.

This is the way that one particular people - the Jews - thought about their past in the days when they had no idea that places like China, Japan, Australia and the Americas existed. Their world view was limited to what they could see and hear about in their little corner of the world.

They knew of a number of early city states and peoples in the Near East, which makes the Old Testament an interesting, if not entirely reliable, source for the history of the region, once we get to the parts written more or less contemporaneously with events.

But the earlier stories, such as the Garden of Eden and the Flood, are mythological. Sykes does not believe in their literal truth. The DNA Adam and Eve never even met, as far as we know. No doubt it seemed appropriate to name them Adam and Eve, as the Bible story is so well known. But they are not the Biblical Adam and Eve, except in a symbolic sense i.e. the ancestors of us all.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 10:36:51 AM by Jean M » Logged
Jean M
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 07:54:14 PM »

The only publication on Ötzi's mtDNA that I know of is Rollo et al, Fine characterization of the iceman's mtDNA haplogroup, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, vol. 130 (2006), pp. 557-564.

How embarrassing. My memory is dreadful. I now find that the above paper is the only one on Ötzi that I didn't cite in my online article, not the only one that I did. I have now added it to the list:

1) W. Müller et al, Origin and Migration of the Alpine Iceman, Science vol. 302. no. 5646 (2003), pp. 862 - 866
2) Rollo et al, Fine characterization of the iceman's mtDNA haplogroup, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, vol. 130 (2006), pp. 557-564
3) L. Ermini et al., Complete Mitochondrial Genome Sequence of the Tyrolean Iceman, Current Biology, (30 October 2008)
4) Mummified Iceman's Ancient Job Determined, Live Science, 20 August 2008; 5) P. Endicott et al, Genotyping human ancient mtDNA control and coding region polymorphisms with a multiplexed Single-Base-Extension assay: the singular maternal history of the Tyrolean Iceman, BMC Genetics, 2009, 10:29doi:10.1186/1471-2156-10-29.
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