World Families Forums - DNA is not a replacement for genealogical research

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 16, 2014, 01:07:42 AM
Home Help Search Login Register

+  World Families Forums
|-+  General Forums - Note: You must Be Logged In to post. Anyone can browse.
| |-+  R1b General (Moderator: rms2)
| | |-+  DNA is not a replacement for genealogical research
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: DNA is not a replacement for genealogical research  (Read 1513 times)
Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen
Project Coordinator
Old Hand
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 292


WWW
« on: May 11, 2009, 01:15:50 PM »

I found this quote by Jim Barrett note-worthy on FTDNA forums. Since I'm facing banishment from this site, I thought that I would say it is a very astute observation.

11 May 2009

http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=13662

JIm Barrett

"DNA is not a replacement for genealogical research, it is just one more tool to aid in the research."
Logged
susanrosine
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 12:59:20 PM »

You're facing banishment from WHICH site?  The family tree dna forum site?  Really?
As admin/co-admin for several DNA projects, I get people all the time asking me "if I do the DNA test, will that tell me who my ancestors are?".  I tell them it can't give them a name, but if they match with other men who share the same name/ancestor, then they have basically "proven" research they've ALREADY DONE.  Genealogy is a hobby for most of us. If you don't want to do the "work", then hire someone to do the research for you, and hope that they have it right!!! Yes, genetic genealogy is just another tool--a great new, fun tool !!!!
Logged

Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen
Project Coordinator
Old Hand
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 292


WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 04:04:56 PM »

"Since I'm facing banishment from this site,"

World Families Network Forums!

The owner of this forum doesn't like my attitude and has expressed uncomfortability with being included in my research.
Logged
susanrosine
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 07:41:55 PM »

Oh! I had no idea.
Logged

Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
Terry Barton
Administrator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1661


« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2009, 10:39:19 AM »

This Forum welcomes diversity of opinion and is pleased to provide a place for discussion.  People are welcome to state their opinions and to challenge the thinking or basis for other poster's deductions, proposals or conclusions.  As far as we are concerned, people may have polar opposite opinions and still be welcome and productive users of the Forum.  We hope that the discussions will lead to a better understanding of the issues, possibilities and most reasonable theories.

At the same time, we do not tolerate attacking the individual who posits a particular idea and have limited tolerance for attacking credentials.  We expect the discussion to focus on the issues and theories and that the discourses will remain civil.

My discomfort at being included in a particular research concept was not personal.  In fact, I am delighted when someone of great intellect, energy and passion is focused on research that may help me understand my own heritage.   My expression of concern was with the logic of my result's inclusion and what appeared to be an overly broad conclusion.   Had an ensuing discussion focused on the merits of including my result - there probably would have been no issue.  And, in fact, I had forgotten about this.

Terry Barton, WorldFamilies.net

Logged
Arch
New Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 01:50:09 AM »

I found this quote by Jim Barrett note-worthy on FTDNA forums. Since I'm facing banishment from this site, I thought that I would say it is a very astute observation.

11 May 2009

http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=13662

JIm Barrett

"DNA is not a replacement for genealogical research, it is just one more tool to aid in the research."




Absolutely! But when you hit a roadblock, then you have no choice.
Logged
rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 07:43:25 AM »

I would say in this day and age, since dna testing is now available for a reasonable price, it is absolutely essential to genealogical research.

Things can look really good on paper, and circumstantial evidence can mount up and seem quite convincing . . . and still be wrong wrong wrong!

Dna testing can point one in the right direction and cut years of wasted time off of one's genealogical quest.

It's not a replacement for slogging down the dusty paper trail, but it is like a compass, a good pair of hiking boots and a canteen full of cool water!
Logged

susanrosine
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 03:31:51 PM »

I would say in this day and age, since dna testing is now available for a reasonable price, it is absolutely essential to genealogical research.

Things can look really good on paper, and circumstantial evidence can mount up and seem quite convincing . . . and still be wrong wrong wrong!

Dna testing can point one in the right direction and cut years of wasted time off of one's genealogical quest.

It's not a replacement for slogging down the dusty paper trail, but it is like a compass, a good pair of hiking boots and a canteen full of cool water!
But the point is, it's not a REPLACEMENT. It can validate your work, or refute your work. But it cannot replace doing the initial work.  Even if you did decide to research your family tree, and the very first thing you did was the DNA test, and even if you have several perfect matches.......you still need to do the research to find the common ancestor.  And, now you've only "proven" ONE line.
Don't get me wrong, I love genetic genealogy, but it can never replace standard research.
Logged

Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 08:07:28 PM »

And this thread should be called "Kick the Straw Man", because I don't know of anyone who thinks dna testing is a replacement for traditional genealogical research.

Anyone nowadays who does traditional genealogical research without also utilizing dna testing is whistling in the dark and could be setting himself up with the wrong set of ancestors.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 08:08:01 PM by rms2 » Logged

Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen
Project Coordinator
Old Hand
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 292


WWW
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2009, 10:47:51 AM »

I kind of like the following statement.

"It's not a replacement for slogging down the dusty paper trail, but it is like a compass, a good pair of hiking boots and a canteen full of cool water!"
 
 
Thanks,
Logged
rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2009, 11:02:17 AM »

You're welcome.

I have been corresponding recently with a gentleman who shall remain nameless. His paper trail research was especially fruitful and satisfying and got him back to the Old Country very nicely, with lots of information. He started a family web site and did an excellent job on it.

Then he got into dna testing and recruited a second cousin to do a y-dna test. They didn't match, so he managed to recruit another purported y-dna relative who also descends from the same putative great-great-grandfather. My friend discovered that his two alleged second cousins matched each other, but he didn't match either of them. He tested his own father and the two of them do match. So, something slipped sometime between the surname-bearing great-great-grandfather and my friend's father and has become the genealogical mystery he is now trying to solve.

But the paper trail didn't tell him any of this. Had it not been for dna testing, my friend would still be living merrily in Fantasyland, regarding someone else's ancestors as his own.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 11:03:44 AM by rms2 » Logged

susanrosine
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 11:53:45 AM »

I have been corresponding recently with a gentleman who shall remain nameless. His paper trail research was especially fruitful and satisfying and got him back to the Old Country very nicely, with lots of information. He started a family web site and did an excellent job on it.

Then he got into dna testing and recruited a second cousin to do a y-dna test. They didn't match, so he managed to recruit another purported y-dna relative who also descends from the same putative great-great-grandfather. My friend discovered that his two alleged second cousins matched each other, but he didn't match either of them. He tested his own father and the two of them do match. So, something slipped sometime between the surname-bearing great-great-grandfather and my friend's father and has become the genealogical mystery he is now trying to solve.

But the paper trail didn't tell him any of this. Had it not been for dna testing, my friend would still be living merrily in Fantasyland, regarding someone else's ancestors as his own.

Sure, I've seen several men who expected to match, yet did not--and they all had great paper trails. So, when you can do DNA testing, you should. BUT...it's only ONE line. I can test my father, and know that since he matches other men who have independently also traced back to the same ancestor, my research must be correct.  And, I can have my mom's brother tested, and same thing. But, do my mom and my brother share the same father? And how about even further back in time--if I have one of my maternal grandmother's brothers descendants test--does that really prove my grandmother's father's line--was he her father?  So, genetic genealogy is good for ONE line, maybe two (yes, my mom and and her brother do have the same father). Then you are right back to relying on traditional research.
Logged

Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2009, 02:25:17 PM »

Well, actually, dna testing is good for as many lines as you can find testable relatives for.
Logged

susanrosine
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2009, 04:47:33 PM »

Well, actually, dna testing is good for as many lines as you can find testable relatives for.
Sure, but do you see my point that you don't always KNOW they are really your relatives? Even with my mom and her brother, how do I really know they had the same father (without other type DNA testing). So sure, I use DNA testing on as many lines as I can, but there is a possibility that in MY line a NPE occurred, and I really don't share the same ancestor. The best I can hope for is to find a descendant of the brother of where my line daughtered out, and hope that they both had the same father. I could be chasing a line that is really not mine, and even with DNA testing and standard genealogical research I would not know it.
Logged

Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
rms2
Board Moderator
Guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5023


« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2009, 08:16:32 PM »

Well, actually, dna testing is good for as many lines as you can find testable relatives for.
Sure, but do you see my point that you don't always KNOW they are really your relatives? Even with my mom and her brother, how do I really know they had the same father (without other type DNA testing). So sure, I use DNA testing on as many lines as I can, but there is a possibility that in MY line a NPE occurred, and I really don't share the same ancestor. The best I can hope for is to find a descendant of the brother of where my line daughtered out, and hope that they both had the same father. I could be chasing a line that is really not mine, and even with DNA testing and standard genealogical research I would not know it.

Well, there are ways to firm up even those lines, but it all takes money and finding people willing to do all the testing.
Logged

susanrosine
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2009, 10:42:13 AM »

Well, actually, dna testing is good for as many lines as you can find testable relatives for.
Sure, but do you see my point that you don't always KNOW they are really your relatives? Even with my mom and her brother, how do I really know they had the same father (without other type DNA testing). So sure, I use DNA testing on as many lines as I can, but there is a possibility that in MY line a NPE occurred, and I really don't share the same ancestor. The best I can hope for is to find a descendant of the brother of where my line daughtered out, and hope that they both had the same father. I could be chasing a line that is really not mine, and even with DNA testing and standard genealogical research I would not know it.

Well, there are ways to firm up even those lines, but it all takes money and finding people willing to do all the testing.
I don't see how it could be done. Take for example one of my lines. It would be my father Warren, then his mother Fay, then her mother Eular, then her mother Mary, then Mary's father Mr. Pipkin.  So, I go out and find a descendant of the brother of Mary to test the Pipkin line.  His Y-DNA matches the other Pipkin men who tested. How does that prove that my father's mother was Fay, her mother was Eular, her mother was Mary, and her father was Mr. Pipkin? It doesn't. How could I use DNA to prove that my line really descends from Mr. Pipkin? If you know how, I'd love to to know!!!!!!!! My dad already did the mtDNA test, which would go to Mr. Pipkin's wife. Only the paper trail indicates that Mary was the daughter of Mr. Pipkin.
Logged

Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
Alan MacIntyre
New Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2009, 09:19:51 PM »

Terry, this is not a reply. It is just a request for some help.  I have wasted 4 or 5 days trying to Post my Pedigree.  I have the 5-page Post A Pedigree printed out but I have found no way to Post my Pedigree. 
Here it is. I would like to post it.

MacIntyre, Duncan, 1640, Glenoe, Scotland, Mary Campbell
MacIntyre, Donald, 1666, Glenoe, Scotland, Catherine MacDonald
MacIntyre, James, 1727, Glenoe, Scotland, Ann Campbell
MacIntyre, Donald, 1762, Glenoe, Scotland, Esther Haines
MacIntyre, James, 1785, North Umberland, PA, Ann Campbell
McIntyre, Ewen, 1825, Johnstown, NY, Amelia Bridgeman
McIntyre, Henry, 1876, Manhattan, NY, Edna Moore

Alan MacIntyre, glenoeus@nc.rr.com

Honestly, I am a bit lost in this program. 
Logged

Alan MacIntyre
Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen
Project Coordinator
Old Hand
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 292


WWW
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 10:40:43 AM »

Try clicking on the below link.

http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/index.php?topic=4596.0

McIntyre Family Pedigrees
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


SEO light theme by © Mustang forums. Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC

Page created in 0.114 seconds with 19 queries.