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Author Topic: Iberian R-L21*  (Read 35068 times)
vtilroe
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« Reply #100 on: June 14, 2009, 02:56:20 PM »

I just found a new Spanish "R1b1b2a1b5" in YSearch, Llanso, E6TSU. The entry just lists "Spain" as place of origin; it doesn't say where in Spain.

I sent him an email inviting him to join the R-L21 Plus Project.
He's on dna-forums, and I also invited him to join.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 03:08:28 PM by vtilroe » Logged

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rms2
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« Reply #101 on: June 14, 2009, 03:35:23 PM »

I just found a new Spanish "R1b1b2a1b5" in YSearch, Llanso, E6TSU. The entry just lists "Spain" as place of origin; it doesn't say where in Spain.

I sent him an email inviting him to join the R-L21 Plus Project.
He's on dna-forums, and I also invited him to join.

Thanks!

I got some information today that there are currently 7 confirmed R-L21* in FTDNA's database who list Spain as their ancestral country of origin and, thus far, none from Portugal.

I've got five Spanish R-L21* accounted for on the R-L21* Map, so we need to find the other two.

It's possible they listed Spain as country of origin but can't actually get their paper trails out of the New World. I need to check out that possibility.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 03:37:08 PM by rms2 » Logged

rms2
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« Reply #102 on: June 14, 2009, 03:42:36 PM »

. . . I've got five Spanish R-L21* accounted for on the R-L21* Map, so we need to find the other two.

It's possible they listed Spain as country of origin but can't actually get their paper trails out of the New World. I need to check out that possibility.

Okay, I was right. I just found the other two R-L21* who list Spain as country of ancestral origin. Neither of them can actually get his y-dna line back to Spain. One of them has a family tradition of a British ancestor on the island of Martinique, and the other actually traces his ancestry to Brazil, which may be indicative of Portuguese rather than Spanish ancestry.

So, anyway, all the verifiable Spanish R-L21* has been accounted for, and it's the five I have on the R-L21* European Continent Map.
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #103 on: June 14, 2009, 03:52:46 PM »

It appears that some of us, including myself, who thought L21 was going to be fairly rare in Iberia may have been a little premature in our predictions.
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vtilroe
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« Reply #104 on: June 14, 2009, 04:03:00 PM »

Et  tu, Goldenhind?  ;)
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rms2
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« Reply #105 on: June 14, 2009, 04:08:30 PM »

It appears that some of us, including myself, who thought L21 was going to be fairly rare in Iberia may have been a little premature in our predictions.

Yeah, it's starting to pop up, but it is still dwarfed there by the other P312+ subclades and by R-P312*.

Honestly, I always expected there to be some R-L21* in Iberia, and I think I said so way back when (a few months ago anyway).
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 04:09:17 PM by rms2 » Logged

vtilroe
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« Reply #106 on: June 14, 2009, 04:40:14 PM »

I just found a new Spanish "R1b1b2a1b5" in YSearch, Llanso, E6TSU. The entry just lists "Spain" as place of origin; it doesn't say where in Spain.

I sent him an email inviting him to join the R-L21 Plus Project.
He's on dna-forums, and I also invited him to join.

Oops, I confused Q3JQX with E6TSU!  [blush!]
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 04:40:35 PM by vtilroe » Logged

YSearch & MitoSearch: 2GXWW


yDNA: R-U106*


mtDNA: U5a1a1 (Genbank# GQ368895)


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rms2
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« Reply #107 on: June 15, 2009, 01:34:31 PM »

Llanso has joined the R-L21 Plus Project, but it turns out his most distant y ancestor was actually born in Roussillon, Vaucluse, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur, France, so he's in the "Western Europe" category.

I'm wondering if there is a connection between the surnames Llanso and Lanceau/Lanceaux. I'll have to ask him.
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susanrosine
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« Reply #108 on: June 15, 2009, 02:13:44 PM »


Yeah, it's starting to pop up, but it is still dwarfed there by the other P312+ subclades and by R-P312*.

Honestly, I always expected there to be some R-L21* in Iberia, and I think I said so way back when (a few months ago anyway).
In the world of genetic genealogy, "way back when" IS a few months ago! I expected to see some L21* in Iberia as well.  Does anyone know offhand if R-M222 has been found there?
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Dad: JAMES:  Ysearch QSCQ3;  R-P312, L21+ (R1b1b2a1b5*)
Dad: mitosearch QSCQ3; T1a; no matches HVR2 or FGS
Mom's brother: LEWTER: Ysearch FYFDA;  R-U106, L48+ (R1b1b2a1a*)
Mom's brother: mitosearch FYFDA, U5b2; 1 exac
rms2
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« Reply #109 on: June 15, 2009, 07:35:30 PM »


Yeah, it's starting to pop up, but it is still dwarfed there by the other P312+ subclades and by R-P312*.

Honestly, I always expected there to be some R-L21* in Iberia, and I think I said so way back when (a few months ago anyway).
In the world of genetic genealogy, "way back when" IS a few months ago! I expected to see some L21* in Iberia as well.  Does anyone know offhand if R-M222 has been found there?

I don't think it has, but I could be wrong.
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rms2
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« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2009, 08:15:17 PM »

I found a new Iberian R-L21* in the Iberian Peninsula DNA Project this evening: Cantu, kit 99240.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/IberianDNA/default.aspx?section=yresults

He is apparently YSearch FFF49.

According to the World Names Profiler and other internet sites, Cantu is actually an Italian surname, with highest frequency in Lombardy.

Of course, I am trying to recruit him for the R-L21 Plus Project.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 08:17:31 PM by rms2 » Logged

NealtheRed
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« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2009, 11:18:37 PM »

Rich, Cantu is actually a town in Lombardy, Italy. I just found that out!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


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rms2
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« Reply #112 on: October 28, 2009, 07:37:41 AM »

Rich, Cantu is actually a town in Lombardy, Italy. I just found that out!

Thanks for the information. If Cantu contacts me or joins, I'll ask him about the possibility that his y line originated in Italy.
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rms2
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« Reply #113 on: October 28, 2009, 08:05:04 AM »

Rich, Cantu is actually a town in Lombardy, Italy. I just found that out!

Here it is, just north of Milan:

http://tinyurl.com/yg6cy4s
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #114 on: October 28, 2009, 09:36:27 AM »

The Italian town is Cantù. The surname of your guy is Cantu but with variants Cantun / Canto. Probably he has nothing to do with Italy. Probably with Catalunya.
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Maliclavelli


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« Reply #115 on: October 28, 2009, 09:53:55 AM »

Carl Boyer, Ship Passenger Lists. The South 1538-1825.

P.170:  4126. Juan Ruiz de Caras, hijo de Alonso de Arévalo y de Mari Alvarez del Canto…

“Del Canto” is also a Tuscan surname, but these are probably Spaniards.
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Maliclavelli


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NealtheRed
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« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2009, 10:12:01 AM »

The Dictionary of American Names says that Cantu is very frequent in Mexico, but is a habitational name from Cantu, Italy.
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2009, 10:28:46 AM »

I'd be very glad that many Mexicans were of Italian extraction, but, unfortunately, many surnames linked to Italy in Hispanic world are simply "nome de dovocao". Search if Cantù had some famous Saint.
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Maliclavelli


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NealtheRed
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« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2009, 11:20:09 AM »

Rich didn't mention if the guy was Mexican. Especially if this L21 is European, I'd say chances are good he has Italian forbears - based on the history of the surname.
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embPA
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« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2009, 12:32:51 PM »

In the 1930 US census 1,593 of 1,716 people named Cantu lived in Texas.  They were either born there or Mexico.   Three named Cantu were born in Italy.   
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Maliclavelli
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« Reply #120 on: October 28, 2009, 02:20:55 PM »

Then the odd he is Italian is very low. Probably those Italians were named Cantù and not Cantu. And if he is the ID on Ysearch given by Rich, certainly he is from Spain.
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Maliclavelli


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NealtheRed
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« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2009, 02:38:42 PM »

Signore Mac,

I think we should say this man is Spanish with possible roots in northern Italy, since that is the only explanation for his surname at this time.

I am well aware of your uncanny ability to predict the future, but let's wait for Rich to get the answer from Mr. Cantu.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



Maliclavelli
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« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2009, 04:38:19 PM »

My compatriot Galileo Galilei taught the world that science is to make hypotheses and to verify them.
My hypotheses aren't based on a sacred book but on thousands of data (historical, linguistic, genetic, on a life of studies in all the fields). Sometime perhaps I am wrong, but someone must yet demonstrate this.
If among  1716 named Cantu only 3 was born in Italy and the other were from Spain, on which origin do you bet for this Cantu?
I said that the Italian surname is Cantù and not Cantu, and this guy has other  form of the surname: Cantun and Canto or probably Cantò and if you knew the Catalunyan surnames you'd think suddenly to an Hiberian origin rather than Italian.
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Maliclavelli


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NealtheRed
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« Reply #123 on: October 28, 2009, 05:30:30 PM »

Mi dispiace, mio fratello... To be honest, three Cantus of Italian ancestry is pretty significant since most Italian immigrants to the U.S. didn't come until the 1900s (including my folks).

This guy is not from Mexico, from what I understand. It can easily be said that he could have northern Italian ancestry; that's all.


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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #124 on: October 28, 2009, 06:41:57 PM »

Its one of the problems of clade mapping.  If the earliest known ancestor is from one place but the surname, religion or some other factor makes it seem like their male line originally came from somewhere else then the map dot is perhaps misleading.  I dont think this should be taken too far as it would become very comples but where the name suggets an entirely different country then maybe that is a problem. 
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