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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #200 on: February 16, 2012, 02:05:21 PM »

Even if its not been picked up by some sampling like Myres et al, it seems almost impossible that there isnt some sort of concentration of L21 in the Rhineland.  Too many have come up in and around the same german provence for this to be chance.  The Rhineland is of course the only part of Germany west of the Rhine. 
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rms2
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« Reply #201 on: February 16, 2012, 05:53:14 PM »

We got a new German R-L21 yesterday: Schaefer, kit H1922, Ysearch ve6ae. He tested L21+ with 23andMe. His ancestor came from Linz am Rhein in Rheinland-Pfalz.
I just noticed a new L21+ in the German Language project.

fN33244 Georg Nachtmann, b.1844, Röthenbach, Westerwaldkreis, Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany

Thanks! I'll have to try to recruit him.

We also just had one join by the surname of Benz (as in Mercedes Benz).

I kind of quit looking at the Germany Project after first Myres and then Busby concluded there isn't much L21 in Germany - despite the fact that we seem to keep getting new German members from time to time.
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OConnor
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« Reply #202 on: February 17, 2012, 07:42:51 AM »

could L21 have entered the Rhine in the far north and travelled south into Germany?
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #203 on: February 17, 2012, 01:51:43 PM »

could L21 have entered the Rhine in the far north and travelled south into Germany?

I think the really striking thing is just how much German L21 seems to be in only one of the states - the Rhineland Palatinate.  As well as being on the middle Rhine the main thing, it was also largely west of the Rhine (unique for Germany) and was of course within the Roman empire which is not true of most of Germany. 
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #204 on: February 17, 2012, 03:55:51 PM »

could L21 have entered the Rhine in the far north and travelled south into Germany?

I think the really striking thing is just how much German L21 seems to be in only one of the states - the Rhineland Palatinate.  As well as being on the middle Rhine the main thing, it was also largely west of the Rhine (unique for Germany) and was of course within the Roman empire which is not true of most of Germany. 

Some of this may be due to the amount of emigration from that area to the USA, which is the primary source of most DNA testing.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #205 on: February 17, 2012, 05:19:05 PM »

could L21 have entered the Rhine in the far north and travelled south into Germany?

I think the really striking thing is just how much German L21 seems to be in only one of the states - the Rhineland Palatinate.  As well as being on the middle Rhine the main thing, it was also largely west of the Rhine (unique for Germany) and was of course within the Roman empire which is not true of most of Germany. 

Some of this may be due to the amount of emigration from that area to the USA, which is the primary source of most DNA testing.

I agree that that can explain why the area is overrepresented for ALL clades but I cant see how this would effect the relative numbers of various clades testing from Rhineland origins.  U152 had a big head start on L21 so how come L21 fairs well compared to U152 in the Rhineland when you look at the FTDNA project maps?  This seems so different from what Myres showed.  I can conceive any way that L21 could be overrepresented in the FTDNA projects in terms of the Rhineland. 
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #206 on: February 18, 2012, 09:16:34 PM »

could L21 have entered the Rhine in the far north and travelled south into Germany?

I think the really striking thing is just how much German L21 seems to be in only one of the states - the Rhineland Palatinate.  As well as being on the middle Rhine the main thing, it was also largely west of the Rhine (unique for Germany) and was of course within the Roman empire which is not true of most of Germany.  

Some of this may be due to the amount of emigration from that area to the USA, which is the primary source of most DNA testing.

I agree that that can explain why the area is overrepresented for ALL clades but I cant see how this would effect the relative numbers of various clades testing from Rhineland origins.  U152 had a big head start on L21 so how come L21 fairs well compared to U152 in the Rhineland when you look at the FTDNA project maps?  This seems so different from what Myres showed.  I can conceive any way that L21 could be overrepresented in the FTDNA projects in terms of the Rhineland.  

Actually, what I was suggesting is that if we had equally large results in FTDNA projects for other regions of Germany, we might well find that that there is more L21 in those regions than is apparent in Myres' data as well.

I would however expect the Rhineland to have the heaviest concentration of L21 in Germany, just from what we know about its present day distribution- ie the concentration increases as one goes westerly.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 09:20:00 PM by GoldenHind » Logged
Mark Jost
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« Reply #207 on: February 23, 2012, 11:56:37 AM »

I was checking out the new SNP map on FtDNA for L21 and noticed a cluster of over a dozen Guys in western Germany in an area from Luxemburg to Frankfurt then southward. Anyone checked these out?

https://my.familytreedna.com/snp-map.aspx
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148326
Pos: Z245 L459 L21 DF13**
Neg: DF23 L513 L96 L144 Z255 Z253 DF21 DF41 (Z254 P66 P314.2 M37 M222  L563 L526 L226 L195 L193 L192.1 L159.2 L130 DF63 DF5 DF49)
WTYNeg: L555 L371 (L9/L10 L370 L302/L319.1 L554 L564 L577 P69 L626 L627 L643 L679)
rms2
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« Reply #208 on: July 18, 2012, 10:10:05 PM »

We have a new German member of the R-L21 Plus Project this evening: Callsen, kit 225229, Ysearch V3YJU, with a mdka from Steinberg, Saxony (Sachsen), Germany, not too far from the Czech border.

He has just 37 markers but no close matches at that level.
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