Scandinavian R-P312 (x M153, M222, SRY2627, U152)

[rms2]

We added a new R-P312 member from Norway last night: ancestral surname Andersen, from way up north in Nordland (see Placemark 133 on the R-P312 Map at the link in my signature below).

He hasn't had an L21 test yet.

R-P312 seems to be pretty common in Scandinavia.

[rms2]

Another new Scandinavian R-P312* joined this morning, ancestral surname Lasseson Heihiller, from just east of Bergen, Norway. He is represented by Placemark 135 on the R-P312* Map (at the link in my signature below).

Interestingly, this new member (YSearch 8EQYZ) is just a genetic distance of 8 away at 67 markers from another of our Norwegian members (YSearch V3228), and that member is L21+.

[GoldenHind]

Have either of these two tested for U152?

[Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen]

I assume that since they have joined the R-P312 Proect sponsored by FTDNA that they have and are U152-. Perhaps, Rich knows for certain?   

[vtilroe]

I assume that since they have joined the R-P312 Project sponsored by FTDNA that they have and are U152-. Perhaps, Rich knows for certain?   

YSearch V3228 is in the FTDNA R-L21 Project, and Rich informs me that YSearch 8EQYZ now has L21 on order.  So yes, they would both be U152-.

[rms2]

Have either of these two tested for U152?

Yes, they are both solidly U152-.

I addition, V3228 (Igland) has tested L21+.

All U152s are L21-.

I absolutely will not add anyone to any R-P312 categories or my R-P312* Map who has not tested U152-.

[rms2]

We added a new Scandinavian member today. His ancestor came from Vimmerby, Sweden.

He is P312+ U152- but is languishing in the "Unassigned Members" category because he is still waiting on the rest of his Deep Clade-R stuff. I'm hoping he gets tested for L21, but there's no guarantee of that.

Interestingly, his closest match at 67 markers (59/67) is Holmen, our Finnish R-P312* of Swedish ancestry (ancestral surname Hindricsson). Another Swedish R-P312* member, Eriksson, is (if I recall correctly) about 12 away at 67 markers.

Both of them, as you should be able to tell by the asterisks, are L21-, so it seems likely this new member (ancestral surname Quillander) will be, too. But you never know until you know.

[rms2]

Yet another Swede joined our project just a few minutes ago. This one is tested up except for L21 (which I have encouraged him to order) and traces his ancestor to Horndal.

He's on the R-P312 Map at the link in my signature below.

[rms2]

Yet another Swede joined our project just a few minutes ago. This one is tested up except for L21 (which I have encouraged him to order) and traces his ancestor to Horndal.

He's on the R-P312 Map at the link in my signature below.

Update: He ordered L21 last night.

[GoldenHind]

At Rich's request, I have made a table of the various R1b subclades in Scandinavia. The information is taken from the various projects, but I note there is sometimes a difference between project tables and maps.

U106 and subclades
Denmark      6
Sweden       8 ( 9 less one apparently two members of same family)
Norway        1 (U198 appears on map only)
Finland         4 (? 5 on map)
Total            19

P312 and subclades
P312*
Denmark       1
Sweden        5
Norway         2
Finland          1
U152
Denmark        1 (not tested for L2)
Sweden         2 (both L2)
Norway          2 (one L2, the other untested))
Finland           0
L21
Denmark        0
Sweden         2
Norway          5
Finland           1
Total              22

Obviously the sampling is thin, but considering that testing for U106 and U152 has been going on for several years, while P312 only for less than a year and L21 only a few months, it is interesting to see that P312 and subclades outnumbers U106 and subclades.

[rms2]

Thanks, Robert.

I was beginning to suspect that P312 and its subclades would rival and perhaps even surpass U106 and its subclades in Scandinavia.

Considering the fact that P312 was only discovered last March, and did not become part of FTDNA's Deep Clade-R testing for quite a few months thereafter, and that L21 was only just discovered in October of 2008, it seems to me P312 and its subclades are doing pretty well in Scandinavia.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but no one seems to be noticing things like this.

[GoldenHind]

Thanks, Robert.

I was beginning to suspect that P312 and its subclades would rival and perhaps even surpass U106 and its subclades in Scandinavia.

Considering the fact that P312 was only discovered last March, and did not become part of FTDNA's Deep Clade-R testing for quite a few months thereafter, and that L21 was only just discovered in October of 2008, it seems to me P312 and its subclades are doing pretty well in Scandinavia.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but no one seems to be noticing things like this.

Some people see only what they are prepared to see.

[rms2]

What I am having trouble understanding is our shortage of data from Denmark. Looking in Ysearch and at the Danish Demes and Scandinavia projects indicates there is no shortage of Danish P312+.

But how much of it has an L21 result and why so few Danes have joined the R-P312 and Subclades Project are mysteries to me.

[rms2]

Hey! Neal Downing just discovered another Finnish R-L21* in YSearch, probably of Swedish origin: ancestral surname Eriksson, from Lapfjärd (modern Lapväärti).

I've emailed him and asked him to join the R-L21 Plus Project and I've added him to the R-L21* Map.

I love it when guys put their SNP results in the notes at the bottom of their Ysearch entry!

That makes nine R-L21* in Scandinavia thus far.

[GoldenHind]

What I am having trouble understanding is our shortage of data from Denmark. Looking in Ysearch and at the Danish Demes and Scandinavia projects indicates there is no shortage of Danish P312+.

But how much of it has an L21 result and why so few Danes have joined the R-P312 and Subclades Project are mysteries to me.

Should we try to contact them?

[rms2]

What I am having trouble understanding is our shortage of data from Denmark. Looking in Ysearch and at the Danish Demes and Scandinavia projects indicates there is no shortage of Danish P312+.

But how much of it has an L21 result and why so few Danes have joined the R-P312 and Subclades Project are mysteries to me.

Should we try to contact them?

I have emailed some via Ysearch. I heard back from one, but the lady responsible has not since emailed me to say she has ordered any additional testing, and no new Danish members have joined the project.