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Author Topic: R-L21* in France  (Read 44785 times)
OConnor
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« Reply #450 on: August 17, 2010, 06:59:38 PM »

another from Bretagne.

  
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 06:59:59 PM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #451 on: August 17, 2010, 08:26:02 PM »

another from Bretagne.

Yes, I don't think there's much doubt it's common there.
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DL Preston
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« Reply #452 on: August 31, 2010, 04:34:13 PM »

Hello all researchers,

Awaiting the 67 Y DNA marker test results, we do have the first 25 though.  Therefore, I have a couple preliminary questions.  What will the last markers show in relation to the first markers? 

Additionally for the R1B1B2 groups, why doesn't that group show up in USA.  It is apparently only in europe on the maps.  Strangely enough, we are rumored to be french/indian and that is why we tested the Ydna for Chavis.  The current tests do not indicate a native or french decent as far as I can see.

There are no matches with the first batch.  Could there be matches out there with the last part of the 67 markers, if there is none with the first part?

We would like to hook up with some researchers that can help us track down our William Cicero Chavis and his ancestors in the USA and of course beyond.

Sabine
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OConnor
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« Reply #453 on: August 31, 2010, 09:23:18 PM »

The last numbers are in addition to the first numbers.
Supposedly the more numbers you match the closer related you are.
Did you create a profile at www.y-search.org  ?
That way one might have a look at your sequence.


« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 12:02:29 AM by OConnor » Logged

R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #454 on: October 13, 2010, 07:27:18 PM »

We have a new French R-L21: surname Georgel, kit 182980, Ysearch BMPFE. His ancestor came from Gugnécourt, Vosges, Lorraine, in eastern France.

He tested L21+ with 23andMe. I didn't recruit this one. He just showed up on his own, which is nice.

Nice to get one from Lorraine, as well.
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OConnor
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« Reply #455 on: October 13, 2010, 07:59:56 PM »

Is that far from Luxembourg and Germany ?
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R1b1a2a1a1b4


R-DF13**(L21>DF13)
M42+, M45+, M526+, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, P108+, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P305+, P310+, P311+, P312+, P316+, M173+, M269+, M343+, P312+, L21+, DF13+, M207+, P25+, L11+, L138+, L141+, L15+, L150+, L16+, L23+, L51+, L52+, M168+, M173+, M207+, M213+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M343+, P69+, P9.1+, P97+, PK1+, SRY10831.1+, L21+, L226-, M37-, M222-, L96-, L193-, L144-, P66-, SRY2627-, M222-, DF49-, L371-, DF41-, L513-, L555-, L1335-, L1406-, Z251-, L526-, L130-, L144-, L159.2-, L192.1-, L193-, L195-, L96-, DF21-, Z255-, DF23-, DF1-, Z253-, M37-, M65-, M73-, M18-, M126-, M153-, M160-, P66-

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rms2
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« Reply #456 on: October 13, 2010, 08:29:10 PM »

Is that far from Luxembourg and Germany ?

No, it's not far from either of them.
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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #457 on: October 14, 2010, 06:24:32 PM »

We have a new French R-L21: surname Georgel, kit 182980, Ysearch BMPFE. His ancestor came from Gugnécourt, Vosges, Lorraine, in eastern France.

He tested L21+ with 23andMe. I didn't recruit this one. He just showed up on his own, which is nice.

Nice to get one from Lorraine, as well.

That is another one on the thin line of dots that seems to link the big French block mainly between the Garronne and the Seine to the group around the middle Rhine, largely bypassing the Low Countries and extreme NE of France.  It seems unlikely to me this sharp line roughly along what was the Celtic-Belgic boundary of northern France is not real.  With L21 it has struck me how often patterns are very early discernible and further testing tends to strengthen rather than change these early observed patterns.  I think though the great unknown about L21 in France is the centre of the country. This large landlocked area away from the coasts and the Rhine has had little testing.
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rms2
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« Reply #458 on: October 15, 2010, 07:15:37 PM »


That is another one on the thin line of dots that seems to link the big French block mainly between the Garronne and the Seine to the group around the middle Rhine, largely bypassing the Low Countries and extreme NE of France.  It seems unlikely to me this sharp line roughly along what was the Celtic-Belgic boundary of northern France is not real.  With L21 it has struck me how often patterns are very early discernible and further testing tends to strengthen rather than change these early observed patterns.  I think though the great unknown about L21 in France is the centre of the country. This large landlocked area away from the coasts and the Rhine has had little testing.

I think it was argiedude who quoted Didier Vernade, who said the scientists of the U. of Santiago de Compostela, who did that study of French R1b1b2, are in the process of testing their samples for P312 and L21.

Since their French sampling seems to have been more representative than that of Myres et al, perhaps we can look forward hopefully to a better picture of old Gaul.

Sooner rather than later, I hope.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 07:16:11 PM by rms2 » Logged

alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #459 on: October 16, 2010, 04:43:49 AM »


That is another one on the thin line of dots that seems to link the big French block mainly between the Garronne and the Seine to the group around the middle Rhine, largely bypassing the Low Countries and extreme NE of France.  It seems unlikely to me this sharp line roughly along what was the Celtic-Belgic boundary of northern France is not real.  With L21 it has struck me how often patterns are very early discernible and further testing tends to strengthen rather than change these early observed patterns.  I think though the great unknown about L21 in France is the centre of the country. This large landlocked area away from the coasts and the Rhine has had little testing.

I think it was argiedude who quoted Didier Vernade, who said the scientists of the U. of Santiago de Compostela, who did that study of French R1b1b2, are in the process of testing their samples for P312 and L21.

Since their French sampling seems to have been more representative than that of Myres et al, perhaps we can look forward hopefully to a better picture of old Gaul.

Sooner rather than later, I hope.

It would certainly be nice to see it althoughI am not optimistic about how much it will clarify.   The entire area between the Seine and Bordeaux where L21 seems strongest judging by the project maps and Myres is represented only by a  sample from Rennes in Brittany. 

The test spots are

Nord-Pas-de-Calais (Lille)
Bretagne (Rennes)
Alsace (Strasbourg),
Ile-de-France (Paris),
Auvergne (Clermont-Ferrand)
Provence-Alpes-Cote d’Azur (Marseille)
Midi-Pyrenees (Toulouse).

Being Brittany, the L21 there will just get the same old explanations.  So, in a way this study will likely not through much light on L21's likely strongest area. 

I think taking the project maps and Myres together it is likely that L21 has a cline moving NW to SE with perhaps its area of highest strength being west of a line from Paris to the French-Spain NE border.  Anyway that is the feeling I get now we have both the project maps and Myres i.e. the cline is as strongly east-west as it is north-south and overall probably NW to SE.  Certainly if I recall correctly, what I presume is the western part of central latitude France in Myres 'west' had 2 or 3 times as much as the eastern part of central latitude France 'east'.  I suspect there might be a smooth cline from NW to SE.   


Of the test spots in the Santiago study I am least interested in Bretagne and Alsace as we already kind of know they are opposite extremes.  Parish as a melting pot seems an odd choice to me.  The SE is already well covered in Myres.  So the places I am most interested in are Lille in the NE (which I suspect will be like Belgium), Auvergne (our first chance to look at a really central area, albeit not necessarily representative of the centre as a whole) and Midi-Pyrenees (which I have a hunch may have a reasonable amount of L21 although I am not sure). 

All we really known from the summary is that U152 is very dominant in the east (confirmed by Myres) and less so elsewhere (also confirmed in Myres when you compare east to west) .  The text seems to hint that Brittany is an opposite extreme with low U152 although that is reading between the lines.  Again in between the lines it seems to indicate an intermediate position elsewhere.  The thing of greatest interest will be how their R1b1b2* group (negative for everything but untested for L21 and S116) breaks down.  Its the biggest group everywhere but Alsace.  It is impossible to know exactly what this means though and Myres et al seems to indicate that R1b1b2 is very fragmented rather than with any outright dominance of one clade. 
 
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rms2
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« Reply #460 on: October 16, 2010, 05:24:03 AM »

While it is true that a better job could have been done with the Northwest, that Santiago de Compostela study is still far more representative of the French R1b1b2 population than Myres.

If we ever see P312 and L21 results from it, that will be an improvement over the current state of affairs.
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« Reply #461 on: November 14, 2010, 04:03:13 PM »

There's a new Breton R-L21: Cornec, kit N7241.

He doesn't have a Ysearch entry yet, and I don't yet know exactly who his most distant y-dna ancestor is or where he came from (except that he came from Bretagne).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 04:04:16 PM by rms2 » Logged

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« Reply #462 on: November 18, 2010, 07:48:41 PM »

There's a new Breton R-L21: Cornec, kit N7241.

He doesn't have a Ysearch entry yet, and I don't yet know exactly who his most distant y-dna ancestor is or where he came from (except that he came from Bretagne).

The y-dna ancestor in this case came from Dinéault in Finistère. He's on the map now.
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« Reply #463 on: November 30, 2010, 07:44:04 PM »

I think it was argiedude who quoted Didier Vernade, who said the scientists of the U. of Santiago de Compostela, who did that study of French R1b1b2, are in the process of testing their samples for P312 and L21.

Since their French sampling seems to have been more representative than that of Myres et al, perhaps we can look forward hopefully to a better picture of old Gaul.

Sooner rather than later, I hope.

It would certainly be nice to see it althoughI am not optimistic about how much it will clarify.   The entire area between the Seine and Bordeaux where L21 seems strongest judging by the project maps and Myres is represented only by a  sample from Rennes in Brittany. 

The test spots are

Nord-Pas-de-Calais (Lille)
Bretagne (Rennes)
Alsace (Strasbourg),
Ile-de-France (Paris),
Auvergne (Clermont-Ferrand)
Provence-Alpes-Cote d’Azur (Marseille)
Midi-Pyrenees (Toulouse).

Being Brittany, the L21 there will just get the same old explanations.  So, in a way this study will likely not through much light on L21's likely strongest area. 

I think taking the project maps and Myres together it is likely that L21 has a cline moving NW to SE with perhaps its area of highest strength being west of a line from Paris to the French-Spain NE border.  Anyway that is the feeling I get now we have both the project maps and Myres i.e. the cline is as strongly east-west as it is north-south and overall probably NW to SE.  Certainly if I recall correctly, what I presume is the western part of central latitude France in Myres 'west' had 2 or 3 times as much as the eastern part of central latitude France 'east'.  I suspect there might be a smooth cline from NW to SE.   


Of the test spots in the Santiago study I am least interested in Bretagne and Alsace as we already kind of know they are opposite extremes.  Parish as a melting pot seems an odd choice to me.  The SE is already well covered in Myres.  So the places I am most interested in are Lille in the NE (which I suspect will be like Belgium), Auvergne (our first chance to look at a really central area, albeit not necessarily representative of the centre as a whole) and Midi-Pyrenees (which I have a hunch may have a reasonable amount of L21 although I am not sure). 
All we really known from the summary is that U152 is very dominant in the east (confirmed by Myres) and less so elsewhere (also confirmed in Myres when you compare east to west) .  The text seems to hint that Brittany is an opposite extreme with low U152 although that is reading between the lines.  Again in between the lines it seems to indicate an intermediate position elsewhere.  The thing of greatest interest will be how their R1b1b2* group (negative for everything but untested for L21 and S116) breaks down.  Its the biggest group everywhere but Alsace.  It is impossible to know exactly what this means though and Myres et al seems to indicate that R1b1b2 is very fragmented rather than with any outright dominance of one clade. 

An R-U152 fellow named RRocca was able to get the detailed data from "Phylogeography of French Male Lineages" by Ramos-Luis et al - 2009. University of Santiago de Compostela

Here it is:       http://tiny.cc/yozud

R1b1*(xR1b1b2) = P25
R1b1b2*(xR1b1b2d,e,g,h) = M269
R1b1b2d = SRY2627
R1b1b2e = M222
R1b1b2g*(xR1b1b2g1) = U106
R1b1b2h = U152

As you can see, L21 was not broken out from P312 so effectively R1b1b2* is R-P312* plus L21* plus maybe a bit of M269* and L23*.

Here are the percentage frequencies for R1b1b2* (xU152,xU106,xM222,xSRY2627)

Bretagne 68%
Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur 38%
Ile-de-France 32%
Mid-Pyrenees 31%
Auvergne 31%
Nord-Pas-de-Calais 29%
Alsace 20%

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alan trowel hands.
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« Reply #464 on: December 01, 2010, 06:23:25 PM »

I think it was argiedude who quoted Didier Vernade, who said the scientists of the U. of Santiago de Compostela, who did that study of French R1b1b2, are in the process of testing their samples for P312 and L21.

Since their French sampling seems to have been more representative than that of Myres et al, perhaps we can look forward hopefully to a better picture of old Gaul.

Sooner rather than later, I hope.

It would certainly be nice to see it althoughI am not optimistic about how much it will clarify.   The entire area between the Seine and Bordeaux where L21 seems strongest judging by the project maps and Myres is represented only by a  sample from Rennes in Brittany.  

The test spots are

Nord-Pas-de-Calais (Lille)
Bretagne (Rennes)
Alsace (Strasbourg),
Ile-de-France (Paris),
Auvergne (Clermont-Ferrand)
Provence-Alpes-Cote d’Azur (Marseille)
Midi-Pyrenees (Toulouse).

Being Brittany, the L21 there will just get the same old explanations.  So, in a way this study will likely not through much light on L21's likely strongest area.  

I think taking the project maps and Myres together it is likely that L21 has a cline moving NW to SE with perhaps its area of highest strength being west of a line from Paris to the French-Spain NE border.  Anyway that is the feeling I get now we have both the project maps and Myres i.e. the cline is as strongly east-west as it is north-south and overall probably NW to SE.  Certainly if I recall correctly, what I presume is the western part of central latitude France in Myres 'west' had 2 or 3 times as much as the eastern part of central latitude France 'east'.  I suspect there might be a smooth cline from NW to SE.  


Of the test spots in the Santiago study I am least interested in Bretagne and Alsace as we already kind of know they are opposite extremes.  Parish as a melting pot seems an odd choice to me.  The SE is already well covered in Myres.  So the places I am most interested in are Lille in the NE (which I suspect will be like Belgium), Auvergne (our first chance to look at a really central area, albeit not necessarily representative of the centre as a whole) and Midi-Pyrenees (which I have a hunch may have a reasonable amount of L21 although I am not sure).  
All we really known from the summary is that U152 is very dominant in the east (confirmed by Myres) and less so elsewhere (also confirmed in Myres when you compare east to west) .  The text seems to hint that Brittany is an opposite extreme with low U152 although that is reading between the lines.  Again in between the lines it seems to indicate an intermediate position elsewhere.  The thing of greatest interest will be how their R1b1b2* group (negative for everything but untested for L21 and S116) breaks down.  Its the biggest group everywhere but Alsace.  It is impossible to know exactly what this means though and Myres et al seems to indicate that R1b1b2 is very fragmented rather than with any outright dominance of one clade.  

An R-U152 fellow named RRocca was able to get the detailed data from "Phylogeography of French Male Lineages" by Ramos-Luis et al - 2009. University of Santiago de Compostela

Here it is:       http://tiny.cc/yozud

R1b1*(xR1b1b2) = P25
R1b1b2*(xR1b1b2d,e,g,h) = M269
R1b1b2d = SRY2627
R1b1b2e = M222
R1b1b2g*(xR1b1b2g1) = U106
R1b1b2h = U152

As you can see, L21 was not broken out from P312 so effectively R1b1b2* is R-P312* plus L21* plus maybe a bit of M269* and L23*.

Here are the percentage frequencies for R1b1b2* (xU152,xU106,xM222,xSRY2627)

Bretagne 68%
Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur 38%
Ile-de-France 32%
Mid-Pyrenees 31%
Auvergne 31%
Nord-Pas-de-Calais 29%
Alsace 20%



Not particularly surprising nor incompatible with the project map.  We have to get used to the lower numbers than we once thought possible due t the fact that, unlike in some areas, French R1b1b2 is very divided among many clades in most areas and therefore no one clade will usually have a very high count.  The important thing to note is that the S116*/L21* although hardly spectacular at around 30% throughout many areas is still the largest group everywhere in France except in Alsace where U152 was highest.  Alsace is clearly an extreme low at 20%.

Brittany at the opposite extreme is unfortunately is the sole representative of the whole NW and centre-west of France from around the Seine to the Pyrenees where the L21 project picked up the most hits.   Obviously the problem with picking Brittany to represent that whole area is that it has the sub-Roman British settlement too, possibly giving it a double doze of L21.  I think Brittany was always going to be the L21 peak but the project results (which during funded testing excluded Brittany) suggest to me that L21 is high throughout the whole NW quarter of France and there may be a gradual drop from that Brittany peak to the next areas tested at Paris and Toulouse but the sampling here obviously is not fine grained enough to pick it up.  

Its really hard to guess how much of this group is L21 and how much is S116*.  Myres doesnt seem to help a lot.  It had a respectable showing for L21 in western France but I suspect that area cannot be directly geographically compared with any of the samples in this study.  Also of course Myres combined S116* with Iberian clades so again comparison and inference is very hard to make.  

Based on the project results and the fact that both L21* and S116* by definition require an L21 test, I used to think you could look to the relative numbers of each in the projects to infer proportion that may be in this group but Myres has made me doubtful.  I suppose a number of likely S116* may have taken the L21 test but not followed up with enough other tests to earn S116* status.  That would magnify L21's apparent strength compared to S116* in the project results.  There is also of course no way of knowing if there is any sort of consistency in the L21*-S116* ratio across the country, especially with S116* really being a paragroup.  

Probably one thing that one cant fail to note is the sheer extremes of the east and the north-west.  Of course its not a simple gradient from east to NW.  The 2nd highest area of the L21*/S116* group is in the extreme SE of France.  I wonder if this is a reflection of Myres's strange L21 peak in a similar area and also the project map's outlying L21 sprinkle in SE France.  Otherwise there is a large chunk of France where L21*/S116* is around the 30% mark, 50% more than the low in Alsace but less than half of the peak in Brittany.  Again this intermediate quantity between the NW peak and a low in the east seems compatible with the project map.  

I suppose though that without any handle on the proportion of L21 to S116* we wont know much definitively.  Certainly the near-blind (north-western-skewed but deliberately non-Breton) R1b1b2 sampling seemed to hit L21 a heck of a high percentage of times so I would suspect (but obviously this is uncertain) that L21 must be the lions share of this L21*/S116* group in the NW quadrant of France at least.  Of course the relative strength of L21* to S116* could wildly vary so it may not be safe to extrapolate these observations to the whole of France.  Is there any real clues about the strength of the S116* paragroup in France?

Myres put L21 at about 14???% of all males in 'western France'.  That would be over 20%? of R1b1b2.  The closest representative in this Santiago study of what I would generally think of western France as opposed to the (North, south of east) would be the mid Pyrenees 31% L21*/S116* albeit that this could be described as near the southern extreme of 'the west'.  Certainly this would suggest that at least two-thirds of the L21*/S116* group is L21* in the west although this may be stretching inference somewhat.   If anything the L21 level in mid Pyrenees could be said to likely be a little lower than the average of the whole west so perhaps the L21 portion here is even higher.  Anyway that is probably a pretty desperate attempt to read between the lines.  
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 04:23:45 AM by alan trowel hands. » Logged
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« Reply #465 on: December 03, 2010, 01:12:45 PM »

RRocca just posted this link.

http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/1875-1768/PIIS1875176809002340.pdf

An R-U152 fellow named RRocca was able to get the detailed data from "Phylogeography of French Male Lineages" by Ramos-Luis et al - 2009. University of Santiago de Compostela

Here it is:       http://tiny.cc/yozud

R1b1*(xR1b1b2) = P25
R1b1b2*(xR1b1b2d,e,g,h) = M269
R1b1b2d = SRY2627
R1b1b2e = M222
R1b1b2g*(xR1b1b2g1) = U106
R1b1b2h = U152

As you can see, L21 was not broken out from P312 so effectively R1b1b2* is R-P312* plus L21* plus maybe a bit of M269* and L23*.

Here are the percentage frequencies for R1b1b2* (xU152,xU106,xM222,xSRY2627)

Bretagne 68%
Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur 38%
Ile-de-France 32%
Mid-Pyrenees 31%
Auvergne 31%
Nord-Pas-de-Calais 29%
Alsace 20%
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
rms2
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« Reply #466 on: March 08, 2011, 09:42:50 PM »

Another Norman R-L21: Le Provost, from Avranches in Manche.

We already have a Norman with that surname, but these two gentlemen don't match, so we're looking at different Le Provost families, but both are L21+.
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Mike Walsh
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« Reply #467 on: April 03, 2011, 10:09:58 PM »

I may have found another French L21*.  He has 67 markers and matches my L21* 11-13 Group B-2 cluster.  The MDKA is a Pierre Bergeron from La Rochelle, France.   I'm trying to make contact and get him deep clade tested but I don't see how he won't be L21*.
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R1b-L21>L513(DF1)>S6365>L705.2(&CTS11744,CTS6621)
rms2
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« Reply #468 on: April 04, 2011, 08:02:04 PM »

I may have found another French L21*.  He has 67 markers and matches my L21* 11-13 Group B-2 cluster.  The MDKA is a Pierre Bergeron from La Rochelle, France.   I'm trying to make contact and get him deep clade tested but I don't see how he won't be L21*.

That surname sounds very familiar. I think I probably tried to recruit him but never got a response to my emails.

I hope you have better luck.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #469 on: April 04, 2011, 09:52:23 PM »

Speaking of La Rochelle, my brother just got some of his first SNP results back:

P312+, SRY2627-

His distant ancestor is from Ile De Re, France.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 09:55:21 PM by NealtheRed » Logged

Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #470 on: April 05, 2011, 08:30:31 PM »

Speaking of La Rochelle, my brother just got some of his first SNP results back:

P312+, SRY2627-

His distant ancestor is from Ile De Re, France.

Cool! Let's hope he gets an L21+ result, too.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #471 on: April 05, 2011, 09:37:21 PM »

Speaking of La Rochelle, my brother just got some of his first SNP results back:

P312+, SRY2627-

His distant ancestor is from Ile De Re, France.

Cool! Let's hope he gets an L21+ result, too.

I'm crossing my fingers!
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #472 on: April 06, 2011, 08:21:44 PM »

Brin (ancestral surname Brun), Ysearch R8N3D, has joined the R-L21 Plus Project. His ancestor came from Poitiers.
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NealtheRed
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« Reply #473 on: April 06, 2011, 09:54:36 PM »

Brin (ancestral surname Brun), Ysearch R8N3D, has joined the R-L21 Plus Project. His ancestor came from Poitiers.

That's not too far from La Rochelle. Good find, Rich.
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Y-DNA: R-Z255 (L159.2+) - Downing (Irish Sea)


MTDNA: HV4a1 - Centrella (Avellino, Italy)


Ysearch: 4PSCK



rms2
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« Reply #474 on: May 09, 2011, 08:10:41 PM »

We have another new French R-L21 in the R-L21 Plus Project: Brunet, Ysearch S7WSF.

His y-dna ancestor came from Dieppe in Haute-Normandie, so I have invited him to also join the Normandy Y-DNA Project.
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