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Author Topic: R-L21* in France  (Read 42261 times)
rms2
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« on: November 21, 2008, 05:49:16 PM »

Okay, we have two French R-L21*s now, Gignoux in Grenoble in the French Alps, and Sicher in Drain, between Angers and Nantes.

When I say "in", I am speaking of where their most distant y ancestors came from, not of where the men who have been dna tested currently live.

Check the R-L21* Map at the link in my signature.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 11:05:20 AM by rms2 » Logged

secherbernard
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2008, 04:07:05 AM »

I begin on this forum, and i am the second French L21.
My surname is Secher, but the oldest form of my surname is Sicher. My oldest paternal ancestor was Martin Sicher. He lived at Drain between Nantes and Angers. He born about 1560 and died in march 19th, 1624 in Drain.
I wonder if there is a link between my surname and the Sicher of Austria/Switzerland/North Italia.
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

rms2
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2008, 02:31:21 PM »

I begin on this forum, and i am the second French L21.
My surname is Secher, but the oldest form of my surname is Sicher. My oldest paternal ancestor was Martin Sicher. He lived at Drain between Nantes and Angers. He born about 1560 and died in march 19th, 1624 in Drain.
I wonder if there is a link between my surname and the Sicher of Austria/Switzerland/North Italia.

I have wondered about that, too. I wish we could get some Swiss-Austrian-North Italian Sichers tested!

Glad to see you here, Bernard!
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rms2
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2008, 10:56:18 AM »

There's a new French R-L21* to report: Hamon from Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt in NW France, Placemark 40 on the R-L21* Map at the link in my signature below.
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GoldenHind
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2008, 09:24:36 PM »

Okay, we have two French R-L21*s now, Gignoux in Grenoble in the French Alps, and Sicher in Drain, between Angers and Nantes.

When I say "in", I am speaking of where their most distant y ancestors came from, not of where the men who have been dna tested currently live.

Check the R-L21* Map at the link in my signature.
I didn't realize the Vikings slavers were able to sail all the way into the Alps.
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rms2
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2008, 01:05:38 PM »

Okay, we have two French R-L21*s now, Gignoux in Grenoble in the French Alps, and Sicher in Drain, between Angers and Nantes.

When I say "in", I am speaking of where their most distant y ancestors came from, not of where the men who have been dna tested currently live.

Check the R-L21* Map at the link in my signature.
I didn't realize the Vikings slavers were able to sail all the way into the Alps.

They got around, I guess!
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rms2
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2008, 01:07:37 PM »

One of our French members just went R-L21* on us: LeCom, an actual Breton this time, Placemark 44 on the R-L21* Map at the link in my signature below.

L21+ is leading L21- in France 5 to 2 by my count.
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secherbernard
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 11:40:50 AM »

My deep clade-R test is not finished, but i get some new results. I am L21+ P312+ rs34276300+ M222- M37- U152-
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Jdean
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 04:59:57 PM »

If you take all the slow mutating markers from FTDNA (an idea that I came across via Eochaidh) and do a Ysearch on the French positives, two of them show up with mostly positive matches in Germany, were as the other two show up with almost no matches at all.

Not something that suggests back migration from the Isles
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

Jdean
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 05:44:04 PM »

Sorry forgot to say that this was done with the first 25 markers

does anybody care to comment if this is a valid way of doing comparisons, seems to produce interesting results, highlights Daniel as poss. Irish background for instance.
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

rms2
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 09:17:38 PM »

Sorry forgot to say that this was done with the first 25 markers

does anybody care to comment if this is a valid way of doing comparisons, seems to produce interesting results, highlights Daniel as poss. Irish background for instance.


There could be something to it. I'll have to check that out for myself. Thanks for bringing it up.
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Jdean
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 09:28:25 PM »

Your welcome

would you like to see the Williams distribution map ?
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

Jdean
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 09:44:54 PM »

teaching granny to suck eggs here but,

if your doing it the same way as me you get 16 loci

ask to test for 16 and set the tolerance to 0

test this with the Isles, Western Europe and Easton Europe

Then try some of the Isle's results for comparison

Personally I've only tried it against English results so far
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
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Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

secherbernard
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 04:36:32 AM »

If you take all the slow mutating markers from FTDNA (an idea that I came across via Eochaidh) and do a Ysearch on the French positives, two of them show up with mostly positive matches in Germany, were as the other two show up with almost no matches at all.

Not something that suggests back migration from the Isles
If i compare my results on ysearch with Marth who is on L21+ of Germany, i have a genetic distance of 2 on 12 markers (he tested only 12 markers).
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Jdean
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 06:35:18 AM »

If i compare my results on ysearch with Marth who is on L21+ of Germany, i have a genetic distance of 2 on 12 markers (he tested only 12 markers).

Bernard if you search the on the first 16 slow markers you have only two matches one of which is a Bernard in the US, If assuming that's a coincidence with the name ?

How's the weather with you, it's very crisp here in Pays de Galles

Dave Stedman
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Y-DNA R-DF49*
MtDNA J1c2e
Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

secherbernard
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2008, 07:03:17 AM »

I don't know what you are  calling "slow markers". Can you explain me, please?
Bernard is my first name so it 's just a coincident. My surname is Secher.

Weather is cold near Paris: some small snowflakes this morning...
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

Jdean
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2008, 07:44:16 AM »

Sorry, should have explained myself better

The slow markers are the ones coloured black on project pages but the first 16 are

DYS#    393, 390, 19*, 391, 426, 388, 389-1,  392, 389-2, 459a, 459b, 455, 454, 447, 437, 448


I was in Paris one Easter and it was freezing, almost the coldest I've been.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 09:02:08 AM by Jdean » Logged

Y-DNA R-DF49*
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Kit No. 117897
Ysearch 3BMC9

secherbernard
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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2008, 02:42:26 PM »

Rich, there is a french in less on your L21 map. Only four french L21 now. Where is th fifth?
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YDNA: R-DF13+ L69+ DYS464X: cccc.3
mtDNA: U6a7a1
mtDNA of my father: U5a2c
YDNA of my maternal uncle: I1*
Ysearch and Mitosearch: UE9BU
Ysearch of my maternal uncle: CEC59

rms2
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2008, 04:29:43 PM »

Rich, there is a french in less on your L21 map. Only four french L21 now. Where is th fifth?

That one succumbed to the argument on dna forums that the Purvaiance of Saintonge was born in Scotland. She (the lady who sponsored her male relative's testing) decided she can only prove her lineage back to a man born in Virginia. She apparently had no real good paper trail to the man in Saintonge.

So, I decided to take that one off the map. I also moved that entry (Provins, Provin) to the "R-L21 Colonial" category on our project's "Y Results" page.

With David Faux dogging every L21+ result on the Continent, I will only add those who are pretty sure of their origins from now on, especially "colonials," like us Americans.

All the French on the R-L21* Map now are solidly French, and L21+ still leads L21- in France 4 to 2.
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Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2008, 11:08:03 AM »

I do not call what David Faux does “dogging”. I call it bullying. He did the same thing in 2007 with R-U152. The longer this man is allowed to represent the professional genetic genealogy testing companies and/or scientific industry in our community without anyone from those genetic communities publicly challenging his expertise or credentials then they are a joke, nothing but a joke, an absolute joke. 

Glenn Allen Nolen
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rms2
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2008, 12:10:33 PM »

I do not call what David Faux does “dogging”. I call it bullying. He did the same thing in 2007 with R-U152. The longer this man is allowed to represent the professional genetic genealogy testing companies and/or scientific industry in our community without anyone from those genetic communities publicly challenging his expertise or credentials then they are a joke, nothing but a joke, an absolute joke. 

Glenn Allen Nolen

He doesn't represent any of the companies anymore, although he was one of the founders of Ethnoancestry. He's just a private poster, but a prolific one, with apparently lots of time and money on his hands.
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rms2
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2008, 08:54:46 AM »

We added another Breton member yesterday, surname Le Bras, but he doesn't appear by name on our y results page because he has not yet supplied the name of his most distant ancestor on his "User Preferences" page.

This new member is P312+ L21+ U152- thus far in the results of his Deep Clade-R and is still awaiting the rest of his results. Theoretically he could still be M222+, but that doesn't seem likely.

Of course, I don't add anyone to my R-L21* Map or an R-L21 category until I am sure he is negative for everything downstream of L21.
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cmblandford
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2008, 04:37:58 PM »

Quote
We added another Breton member yesterday

The French are filling in nicely, but precious few L21+ from Belgium, Netherlands and Germany.

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Y-DNA:  R-DF13*


Surname Project:  Blandford

Kit:  ft115893   Ysearch:  EYSPZ


Earliest Known Ancestor:  Thomas Blanford; Dorset, England; born 1648


vtilroe
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2008, 08:51:55 PM »

Quote
We added another Breton member yesterday

The French are filling in nicely, but precious few L21+ from Belgium, Netherlands and Germany.


Yeah, and I'm rather upset about that!  :)
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YSearch & MitoSearch: 2GXWW


yDNA: R-U106*


mtDNA: U5a1a1 (Genbank# GQ368895)


R-P312-WTY Project Admin http://tinyurl.com/daertg

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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2008, 09:59:44 PM »

Very interesting and numerous results today; were you in there?
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Y-DNA:  R-DF13*


Surname Project:  Blandford

Kit:  ft115893   Ysearch:  EYSPZ


Earliest Known Ancestor:  Thomas Blanford; Dorset, England; born 1648


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