Confirmation of separate parallel subclades within R-P312 at 11/17 385a/b

[Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen]

Y-Search participant N2F3B Hagan has tested R1b1b2 not R1b1b2a1b7 (R1b1b2h) as predicted by me and FTDNA. This confirms parallel subclades within R-P312 at DYS #385a and 385b at 11 and 17 discussed at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nolenancestry/page12.html by Dale Leppard, Group Administrator, Lippert/Leppard DNA
Project, on 28 March 2008.

N2F3B Hagan Ulster Ireland R1b1b2 13 24 14 10 11 17 12 12 12 14 13 30
17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19

MM9UD Sierra Guatemala R1b1b2d 13 24 14 10 11 17 12 12 13 13 13 29 17
9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 13 15 17 17

27202 Cunniff Ireland R1b1b2e 13 25 14 11 11 17 12 12 11 13 14 30 17
9 10 11 11 25 15 18

9KDAF Nolen Galway Ireland R1b1b2a1b7 13 24 14 10 11 17 12 12 12 14 13
30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19

Hagan is presently listed in Kerchner's R-U152 Project.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b1c10/index.aspx?
fixed_columns=on

40 11316 Thomas the Immigrant, Maryland 1662; b1645 Ireland R1b1b2
13 24 14 10 11 17 12 12 12 14 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 16 16
16 18 10 11 19 23 15 14 17 17 37 39 12 12 12 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10
12 23 23 17 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

[Fred Hagan]

I am the N2F3B mentioned in this string.  Is there a brief explanation of "parallel subclades"?  Since having my DNA tested I have found several cousins I did not know I had.  None are on my direct line, though, and my DNA markers are one or two off of each of these individuals.  Also, in looking at my DNA compared to others on various web sites, my DNA is always one or two markers off what I would call the "norm" for the group.  Now it seems my ancestry has taken a parallel path from other R-P312.  Not that I mind being different, I would just like to understand why, if there is an explanation.

[rms2]

I am the N2F3B mentioned in this string.  Is there a brief explanation of "parallel subclades"?  Since having my DNA tested I have found several cousins I did not know I had.  None are on my direct line, though, and my DNA markers are one or two off of each of these individuals.  Also, in looking at my DNA compared to others on various web sites, my DNA is always one or two markers off what I would call the "norm" for the group.  Now it seems my ancestry has taken a parallel path from other R-P312.  Not that I mind being different, I would just like to understand why, if there is an explanation.

You are also one of just three Irish L21- we've found thus far.

There are about 16 R-P312* (that * means negative for everything downstream of P312) guys who are being tested by 23andMe right now. Hopefully that testing will turn up a significant SNP you all share, and FTDNA will gear up and test for it as a single SNP offered on their "Advanced Orders" menu.

That's how it went down with L21 and, before that, with P312 (although P312 was discovered via DeCodeMe testing rather than 23andMe).

Things are happening fast. P312 was just discovered this past March, and L21 was discovered in October. Exciting times.

[GoldenHind]

I suspect that there is more than one as yet undiscovered SNP which will further divide P312* I think they are just too geographically diverseScandinavia to Spain) to all have the same history.

[Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen]

Simply put a parallel subclade is any group of tested individuals within the same downstream SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) within the larger clade of R-P312. Each of these parallel subclades should eventually mutate to the higher values at DYS #385a and 385b at 11 and 17 identified in my research. These parallel subclades appear to be roughly equivalent (in the same ballpark) with the new dating techniques within confidence intervals of course somewhere around 3,500-4,000 years ago.

You have tested negative so far for the known downstream SNP's of R-P312. DNA discoveries are being made by the amateurs in this field through testing of people like yourself at 23andme. Hopefully, new SNP's will be forthcoming soon that will identify your specific parallel subclade within R-P312.
   

[rms2]

I suspect that there is more than one as yet undiscovered SNP which will further divide P312* I think they are just too geographically diverseScandinavia to Spain) to all have the same history.

I'm sure you're right. I did not really intend to imply there was only one out there still waiting to be discovered.

[didier]

R1b1c11 ( I don't know how to call it now) is never tested and I don't know if the SNP is on the 23andME chipset.