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Ruthy
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« on: January 11, 2008, 01:30:53 PM »

Hi,
I received my mtDNA results in December 21, 2007. I was assigned the U5a haplogroup.
I am completely lost and would like some help understanding my results and my haplogroup.
Ruthy
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byakhee_2001
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 04:21:30 AM »

Where is your mother from? And her female ancestors?
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Ruthy
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 05:14:19 PM »

My mother and her ancestors are from Puerto Rico.
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byakhee_2001
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 12:33:17 PM »

Have you spanish ancestors?

From Galicia for example?
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Ruthy
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2008, 01:49:51 PM »

My results are leading me to Spain(5) Central and West Africa(18).
I have not been able to go any further then the mid 1800's with my maternal lineage, all from Puerto Rico.
I did find however that on my mother's paternal side, her father's surname leads to Basque(surname Arteche which was misspelled over the years).

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byakhee_2001
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 08:28:41 AM »

My results are leading me to Spain(5) Central and West Africa(18).
I have not been able to go any further then the mid 1800's with my maternal lineage, all from Puerto Rico.
I did find however that on my mother's paternal side, her father's surname leads to Basque(surname Arteche which was misspelled over the years).



Central and West Africa? It's a big surprise! Normally U5a could be only found in North of Africa, but not in Central or West Africa!

U5a normally is found in Germany, Portugal and north of Spain (Galicia and Basque), Great Britain and Scandinavia.

So the probabilities is that you have ancestors coming from Galicia or Basque. But I think that probabilities of having Galicia ancestors is higher. A lot of people left from there to migrate in south America. More than Basque. And Basque migration is more recent than Galicia.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 08:29:30 AM by byakhee_2001 » Logged
Ruthy
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 12:33:32 PM »

Those that were tested in other countries that have my mtdna matches are from:
Cameroon-Fulbe:5
Guinea-Bissau-Fula:2
Guinea-Bissau-Fula-Preto:2
Guinea-Bissau-Futa-Fula:2
Guinea-Bissau-Papel:3
Senegal/Gambia/Mauritania-Serer:1
Senegal/Gambia/Mauritania-Wolof:1
West Africa-Malinke:2
Spain-Channel Islands:1
Spain:4
There are a total of seven of us in the United States with the exact match, all with ancestors from Puerto Rico.
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byakhee_2001
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2008, 07:54:37 AM »

Are you really U5a? What are the markers?

Perhaps you had an ancestor who was sailor or colon, I don't know. It's very strange these results.

Or U5a people went very far in the centre of Africa and didn't stay all in the north of Africa.

But I am sure that these people came from Europe and not the opposite.
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byakhee_2001
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2008, 10:42:14 AM »

I've found an excellent work!

THE ORIGINS OF THE AFRICAN ANCESTRY IN THE PUERTO RICAN POPULATION
ACCORDING TO RESTRICTION ANALYSIS OF THE MITOCHONDRIAL DNA:

http://grad.uprm.edu/tesis/vieraviera.pdf

U5b2 is subsaharian. But U5a isn't!

I need to know your exact results. Perhaps you aren't U5a but U5b2 ...
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Ruthy
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2008, 11:49:30 AM »

"I've found an excellent work!"

THE ORIGINS OF THE AFRICAN ANCESTRY IN THE PUERTO RICAN POPULATION
ACCORDING TO RESTRICTION ANALYSIS OF THE MITOCHONDRIAL DNA:

Yes, I have read that. It had me more confused after reading it.  But then there are seven of us with the exact mutations assigned that haplogroup.
Haplogroup U5a
HVR1:  16189C, 16192T, 16270T, 16320T

There are people being tested now in Africa who match our mutations and are also being assigned haplogroup U5a.


Studies in northern Sub-Saharan populations have often
found mtDNAs whose HVR-I sequence circumscribe their
identity to haplogroups H or U, suggesting the
reintroduction to Sub-Saharan Africa of West Eurasian
mtDNAs through North Africa (Macaulay et al., 1999).
Our results show that the sequence type 16189-16192-
16270-16320 (Table 4) found in three African tribes but not
in Eurasia belongs to haplogroup U. Its absence in all other
haplogroup U sequences described to date strongly
suggests that these mtDNAs have a very recent common
origin in northern Sub-Saharan Africa. Insofar as no
coding region analysis other than at the 12308 site has been
performed on these mtDNAs, we must depend on their
HVR-I sequence for their classification. Haplogroup U
has been subdivided into eight clades plus haplogroup K,
clade U5 being distinguished by its 16270 motif. U5 has
been further subdivided into U5a and U5b, and since only
one clearly unrelated haplogroup U mtDNA possessing the
16320 has been reported (Malyarchuk et al., 2002), we
depend on its transitions at sites 16189 and 16192, both
unstable (Macaulay et al., 1999; Finnilä et al., 2000), to
classify the African clade. The combination 16189, 16192
has been found in both U5a and U5b clades, but it has
always been accompanied by a transition at position 16256
within U5a, and by no substitution in particular within U5b
(Richards et al., 2000). Thus, the parsimony rule guides us
to classify sequence type 16189-16192-16270-16320 as a
U5b clade. As clade U5b1 with the 16144 signature has
already been described, we describe clade U5b2 with the
16320 signature. Coding region analysis must be
performed to confirm the assignment of these mtDNAs to
subhaplogroup U5b
.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 02:39:31 PM by Ruthy » Logged
byakhee_2001
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2008, 04:54:05 AM »

Yes you are U5b2 and not U5a. In which company have you done the test?

Then it seems that you had a black female ancestor who was a slave from Africa.

You haven't recent European ancestor.

Otherwise people saying having spanish origins and being U5b2 must be Puerto Ricans or south American thinking that they have spanish origins. Perhaps they have spanish origins in the side of their father, but not in the side of the mother!

And the USA people having U5b2 must have a black female ancestor who was a slave.

Finally, we know a little more your past! and your female ancestors!

Now what would be interesting is to find from which part of Africa came your ancestors.

I've done some researches and I've found that U5b2 should be Berber who migrated more in the south and mixed with black people.

So it is possible to find U5b2 in some parts of south of Europe too because of the Arab invasions! Then people saying that they are spanish could be of Berber origin too.

My conclusion is:

1) you have a female ancestor who mixed in west africa with black people.

or

2) you have an female Arab ancestor who mixed with spanish people.

But in both possibilities, you have an ancestor coming from North Africa, probably a Berber!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 05:17:42 AM by byakhee_2001 » Logged
Ruthy
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2008, 12:02:57 PM »

All seven of us tested with FTDNA.
Why assign us to haplogroup U5a or U5b if they were not sure.
A few who tested were tested a few years ago. I tested this past November.

But my matches from HVR1 match those in Africa from the areas I posted before.
FTDNA assigned us haplogroup U5a & The Genographic Project, assigned them haplogroup U5a.

My results are in the Genographic Project databases. They are testing people from all over the world and assigning those with my matches/mutations to haplogroup U5a.

Who am I to argue with all the scientists who are doing a world wide research on mtDNA and assigning them their haplogroups.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 12:50:38 PM by Ruthy » Logged
byakhee_2001
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 05:30:02 AM »

I think that FTDNA and Genographic Project should do some updates ... Your example is obvious.

Perhaps you should contact them and force them to make the correct changes for your haplogroup.

It would be interesting to find mtdna haplogroups of Berbers. If someone has some informations, it would be cool to share them.

All seven of us tested with FTDNA.
Why assign us to haplogroup U5a or U5b if they were not sure.
A few who tested were tested a few years ago. I tested this past November.

But my matches from HVR1 match those in Africa from the areas I posted before.
FTDNA assigned us haplogroup U5a & The Genographic Project, assigned them haplogroup U5a.

My results are in the Genographic Project databases. They are testing people from all over the world and assigning those with my matches/mutations to haplogroup U5a.

Who am I to argue with all the scientists who are doing a world wide research on mtDNA and assigning them their haplogroups.
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Ruthy
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 11:38:16 AM »

I think that FTDNA and Genographic Project should do some updates ... Your example is obvious.

Perhaps you should contact them and force them to make the correct changes for your haplogroup.

It would be interesting to find mtdna haplogroups of Berbers. If someone has some informations, it would be cool to share them.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


My example is obvious? How are you so sure? What are your credentials, are you a genetic expert?
Are you basing what was written by one person on his thesis as proof? I have found no other information based on his thesis which agrees or disagrees with the work he did.
Why should I contact them and FORCE them as you say to make corrections and change my haplogroup? Because you feel that it is the wrong one? What should I say to them? That ONE person told me I and many others were assigned the wrong haplogroup and that he or she feels and wants the company to change it?
What I would like to know is, why does it bother you so much to know that I and many others with our mutations were assigned to haplogroup U5a?

Are you so sure that I am of a slave descend? Let us not forget that not all were slaves in those areas. Many were free.
If in the future I find documentation stating that my maternal line was that of a slave, it will not be something that I will be ashamed of. To me it will mean that I have come from a strong line of women who were strong and endured many hardships and gave birth to many strong women down the maternal line.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 02:37:10 PM by Ruthy » Logged
byakhee_2001
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2008, 06:10:54 PM »

I tried to help you.

If you think that Genographic Project and FTDna can help you, ask them!

I don't think that they will help you more.
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Ruthy
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« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2008, 01:12:32 PM »

Maybe you are right, about "I don't think that they will help you more." Especially since they are still researching and it will take a few years before the Genographic Project is finished.

It seems like all the information I have found concerning my mutations and haplogroup I have found on my own.

You have a habit of expressing yourself with lots of exclamation points, which I found as an expression of protest or complaint.
So maybe I understood your help to mean something totally different.

Below is new informtion I have found. Noticed at the bottom, haplogroup U5. My exact mutations.


Table 8
Malinke and Bambara mitochondrial DNA HVS-I sequences included in this study.
 
ID
 Ethnicity
 Haplogroup
 Hvs-I polymorphismsa
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
BAM676
 Bambara
 L1b
 126 187 189 223 264 270 278 311
 
BAM612
 Bambara
 L1b1
 126 187 189 223 256 264 270 278 293 311
 
BAM595
 Bambara
 L1b1
 126 187 189 223 264 266 270 278 293 311
 
BAM599
 Bambara
 L1b1
 126 187 189 223 264 266 270 278 293 311
 
BAM600-2
 Bambara
 L1b1
 126 187 189 223 264 270 278 293 311
 
BAM060
 Bambara
 L2a
 223 278 294 368 390
 
BAM598
 Bambara
 L2a1
 189 192 209 223 278 294 309 390
 
BAM604
 Bambara
 L2a1a
 223 278 286 294 309 390
 
BAM627
 Bambara
 L2b
 114A 213 223 278 290 355 390
 
BAM659
 Bambara
 L2b1
 114A 129 213 223 278 362 390
 
BAM037
 Bambara
 L2c
 129 223 261 278 390
 
BAM685
 Bambara
 L2c2
 183 223 264 278 320 390
 
BAM679-1
 Bambara
 L2c2
 223 264 278 390
 
BAM629
 Bambara
 L2d2
 111A 145 184 223 239 278 292 355 390 399 400
 
BAM068
 Bambara
 L3b
 124 223 278 362
 
BAM072
 Bambara
 L3e2
 223 284 320
 
BAM605
 Bambara
 L3e3
 093 148 223 265 311
 
BAM027
 Bambara
 L3f1
 049 129 209 223 292 295 311
 
BAM614
 Bambara
 L3f1
 223 272 292 311
 
BAM 552
 Malinke
 L1b
 111 126 187 189 223 239 270 278 311
 
BAM 237
 Malinke
 L1b
 126 187 189 223 239 264 270 278 311
 
BAM 357
 Malinke
 L1b
 126 187 189 223 239 264 270 278 311
 
BAM 040
 Malinke
 L1b
 126 187 189 223 264 270 278 311
 
BAM 385
 Malinke
 L1b1
 093 126 145 187 189 223 264 270 278 293 311
 
BAM 555
 Malinke
 L1b1
 126 187 189 213 223 260 264 270 278 293 311
 
BAM 225
 Malinke
 L1b1
 126 187 189 223 264 270 278 293 311 362 400
 
BAM 407
 Malinke
 L1c
 129 189 215 223 278 294 311 360
 
BAM 013
 Malinke
 L1c2
 015 15 bp ins 129 187 189 223 265 286 294 311 360
 
BAM 397
 Malinke
 L2a
 189 192 223 278 294 390
 
BAM 221
 Malinke
 L2a
 189 223 278 294 390
 
BAM 426
 Malinke
 L2a
 223 278 286 294 390
 
BAM 083
 Malinke
 L2a
 223 278 294 390
 
BAM 414
 Malinke
 L2a1
 093 189 192 223 265 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 143
 Malinke
 L2a1
 086 223 230 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 117
 Malinke
 L2a1
 092 223 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 341
 Malinke
 L2a1
 093 223 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 534
 Malinke
 L2a1
 140 189 192 223 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 665
 Malinke
 L2a1
 189 192 223 266 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 082
 Malinke
 L2a1
 189 192 223 278 294 309
 
BAM 174
 Malinke
 L2a1
 192 223 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 195
 Malinke
 L2a1
 192 223 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 395
 Malinke
 L2a1
 223 278 294 309 368 390
 
BAM 406
 Malinke
 L2a1
 223 278 294 309 390
 
BAM 204
 Malinke
 L2a1
 223 278 309 390
 
BAM 296
 Malinke
 L2b1
 056 114A 129 213 223 278 362 390
 
BAM 085
 Malinke
 L2b1
 093 114A 129 213 223 278 355 362 390
 
BAM 577
 Malinke
 L2b1
 114A 129 213 223 278 311 355 362 390
 
BAM 290
 Malinke
 L2b1
 114A 129 213 223 278 362 390
 
BAM 319
 Malinke
 L2b1
 114A 129 213 223 278 362 390
 
BAM 401
 Malinke
 L2c
 129 223 261 278 362 390
 
BAM 631
 Malinke
 L2c
 162 223 261 278 390
 
BAM 427
 Malinke
 L2c
 223 278 362 390
 
BAM 652
 Malinke
 L2c
 223 278 390
 
BAM 269
 Malinke
 L2c1
 223 256 261 278 318 390
 
BAM 432
 Malinke
 L2c2
 093 223 264 278 362 390
 
BAM 151
 Malinke
 L2c2
 223 264 278 390
 
BAM 680
 Malinke
 L2c2
 223 264 278 390
 
BAM 681
 Malinke
 L2c2
 223 264 278 390
 
BAM 187
 Malinke
 L2d1
 014 129 278 300 354 390 399
 
BAM 110
 Malinke
 L2d2
 111A 145 184 223 239 278 292 355 360 390 399 400
 
BAM 463
 Malinke
 L3b
 124 223 278
 
BAM 185
 Malinke
 L3b
 124 223 278 362
 
BAM 420
 Malinke
 L3b
 124 223 278 362
 
BAM 430
 Malinke
 L3b
 124 223 278 362
 
BAM 384
 Malinke
 L3b1
 223 278 362
 
BAM 461
 Malinke
 L3d
 111 124 223
 
BAM 521
 Malinke
 L3d
 111 124 223
 
BAM 160
 Malinke
 L3d
 124 223
 
BAM 375
 Malinke
 L3e2
 172 223 239 320
 
BAM 402
 Malinke
 L3e2
 172 223 320 353
 
BAM 467
 Malinke
 L3e2
 188 223
 
BAM 525
 Malinke
 L3e2
 188 223 320
 
BAM 041
 Malinke
 L3e2
 223 257 290A 320
 
BAM 464
 Malinke
 L3e2
 223 320
 
BAM 260
 Malinke
 L3e2
 223 320 362
 
BAM 070
 Malinke
 L3f1
 157 209 223 274 292 304 311
 
BAM 398
 Malinke
 L3f1
 188 209 223 292 311
 
BAM 116
 Malinke
 L3f1
 209 223 274 292 311
 
BAM 061
 Malinke
 U5
 189 192 270 320
 
BAM 047
 Malinke
 U5
 189 192 270 320


aNumbers indicate the position of differences from the Cambridge Reference Sequence minus 16,000. All mutations are transitions unless a letter designation is present.
 
Ely et al. BMC Biology 2006 4:34    doi:10.1186/1741-7007-4-34
 
 
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byakhee_2001
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2008, 05:19:04 AM »

Your new post is a proof that you have links with African people.

Or the opposite that some African people have links with European people.

These U5 in Africa came from Europe through North Of Africa.

I think that you should ask the American people who have the same Mtdna than you, verify if they have black ancestors or not.

But even if you share same MTdna than Black people, it doesn't mean necessary that you had a black ancestor. Perhaps your ancestors stayed in Europe or North Africa and don't migrated to central Africa.
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Ruthy
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2008, 05:14:44 PM »

Those that are of my exact matches from Puerto Rico have been searching for information about their ancestors. None of us have been able to find anything in the records about an ancestor coming from African. We know that many from Africa came as slaves and also as free Africans. Some I guess married to Portuguese.  Whenever we find a new record we contact each other to see if there are any connections. So far none. Hopefully one day one  of us will be able to find a connection that will be related to some or all of us. Those that currently match us from Africa are from areas that were once colonized by the Portuguese. Time will tell, we just need to be patient.
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