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Author Topic: Conn Cead-Catha or Conn of the Hundred Battles Irish R1b1c7 Haplotype?  (Read 2284 times)
Nolan Admin - Glenn Allen Nolen
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« on: January 19, 2008, 12:39:58 AM »


http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/n/nolan/index.html

It seems apparent to me that the 23 of 25-marker match for Nolan Lineage III - Barony of Forth with the 25-marker R1b1c7 haplotype is the original Nolan lineage of Eocha Fionn Fohart (Eochaidh Finn Fuathairt), the brother of Conn Cead-Catha or Conn of the Hundred Battles. Eocha Fionn Fohart (Eochaidh Finn Fuathairt), the brother of Conn Cead-Catha or Conn of the Hundred was the progenitor of Carlow Clan O’Nolan. 

Nolan Lineage III is a unique 25-marker haplotype with no exact matches in Y-Search. Nolan Y-DNA participant, N-1, is the only exact match so far for this unique 25-marker haplotype. Nolan Y-DNA Lineage III - Barony of Forth mismatches the Northwest Irish R1b1c7 25-marker haplotype at DYS 464b and 464c, which are prone to rapid mutation.   

Nolan Lineage III - Barony of Forth - Eocha Fionn Fohart

13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 17 17 17 

I am not saying this is the exact haplotype of Eocha Fionn Fohart, but I do believe this 25-marker haplotype of modern Nolans represents what was the haplotype of Eocha Fionn Fohart with mutations over a 2,000-year period. 
 
There are slightly more than a dozen (15) one or two marker mismatches for this unique 25-marker haplotype in Y-Search. Most of these fifteen have Country of Origin as Ireland. It is my assertion that these dozen or so Irish could represent the haplotype of Conn of the Hundred Battles, if the 25-marker haplotype of his brother Eocha Fionn Fohart, Carlow Nolan progenitor, holds up with more Nolan testing, which we still need.
 
I am sure with 67-marker or even up to 100-marker testing these fifteen Y-Search one or two marker mismatches would result in a non-relationship, but I am not trying to prove a modern 67-marker or 100-marker comparison relationship. The below sixteen samples certainly will have diverged at those higher marker comparisons. We already have two Carlow Nolan lineages and a probable third from this unique Eocha Finn Fohart haplotype and maybe more to come.
 
Ireland does have a long genealogical history, and it may not be accurate in all regards. It does, however, point researchers to an ancient starting place for DNA analysis. Eocha Fionn Fohart was the brother of Conn. If this unique Eocha Fionn Fohart 25-marker haplotype stands up to future testing, then I believe this research might be on the right track to deduce a Conn Cead-Catha or Conn of the Hundred Battles haplotype. Y-Search has no exact 25-marker matches for this unique 25-marker R1b1c7 haplotype, but has fifteen one marker mismatches. Of the sixteen total results:

9 - Ireland
2 - Scotland
1 - England
2 - Virginia
2 - Unknown
 
The modal for these sixteen results are as follows:
 
13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17
 
My question is could this represent Conn Cead-Catha or Conn of the Hundred Battles haplotype? All the below mismatch R1b1c7 by one except GT6HX Eocha Fionn Fohart, who mismatches by two, and GJZ42 Berry and 7BDTU McCormick, who mismatch by three according to Mcgee's Y-Utility tool at http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html?mode=ftdna_mode.   
 
M5UKQ R1b1c7 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 16 17 

PKP8H Eaton 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17       

46TSS McGeehan 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17     

47H6W McClellan 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17                                                                                     

8FPQ7 Stewart 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17                                                                                                             

8XK6Q Dees 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17     

CMQ6B McGee 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17

CZCQ5 Miller 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17   

E83WV McKeveny 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17                                                                                                             

RZYB2 Mullaney 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17                                                       

WPWBQ Mullaney 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17                                                             

XAYH6 McGee 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17                                                                                     

XFY7E Milligan 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17                                                                                   

YE2VE Burns 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 17 17

GT6HX Eocha Fionn Fohart 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 17 17 17

GJZ42 Berry 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 26 15 18 30 15 17 17 17     

7BDTU McCormick 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 14 18 30 15 17 17 17
 
Thanks,

Glenn Allen Nolen
Nolan DNA Project 
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Miles Hispaniae
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 12:29:59 PM »

The Pedigree of Niall Mac Eochu latter known has Niall of the 9 Hostages. their should be great skepticism considering to whom Niall of the 9 hostages was related and how his history was created.
his rise to power is based on myths and legends.

1. No archaeological evidence has been found of Niall of the Nine Hostages Kingship in Ireland?
2. No ancient bones of Niall has been found or discovered to perform a y-DNA test?
The son of a slave girl , Cairenn , daughter of the Saxon King of Britain or the daughter of the King of the Britons. Depends on what the Irish genealogist wanted you to believe or what book you read.
 
1. IGNE RI ALL SAXAN
2. INGHEAN RIOGH BRETON


The Legend of Niall of the 9 Hostages
Niall was the son of Eochaid Muig-Medon ( Lord of Slaves) King in the middle of the fourth century. Niall’s mother was Cairenn Cashdubh ( Black Head, Curly Black Hair) the daughter of Sachell Balb ( Sachell the Stammer) the Saxon king of England. Some say he was the Celtic king of England. Niall had four brothers Brian, Fiachra, Ailill and Fergus. All king Eochaid Muig-Medon first wife Mong-Fionn. Mong-Fionn it is said to have been a ambitious woman and wanted her son Brian to succeed his father has king. (Mong-Fionn was the daughter of Fiodach, and sister of Crimthann, King of Munster or King of the Laigin). Niall was said to have been the favorite of King Eochaid Muig-Medon. Mong -Fionn was set to outcast Niall and his mother Cairenn. One story has Niall being abandoned as a baby, naked on a hill. Rescued by the Poet Torna Eices. she raised him and educated Niall to he reached manhood. During this time Nialls mother Caireen was doing menial tasks in the courts.
One Legend out of many.

All the five brothers Brian, Fergus, Ailill, Fiachra and Niall were at Sithchenn the Smiths forge when it caught fire, they were commanded to save what they could. King Eochaid Mug-Medon watching his sons observed Niall good judgment. Has he saved the Smiths Anvil, the bellows, the sledges, and saved Sithchenn the smith from ruin. From this event Niall was said to become the King.
Another account.

One day all the five brothers were hunting, and all of them sorely thirsted, they discovered a well , in the woods, guarded by a old hag , who granted a drink to the person who had the courage to kiss her. None of the brothers would . Niall went forward and kissed her the old hag turned into a beautiful maiden named Flaithus " Royalty".

Eochaid Muig-Medon dies at Tara and Mong-Fionn has her brother Crimthann take the crown and become king until her son Brian was of the right age to lead. Instead Crimthann becomes a real king with successful expeditions against the Britons, Gauls and Picts. He reigns for twenty years until Mong-Fionn poisons her brother and to avoid suspicion drinks from the same cup and dies. Niall begins his reign in 379 A.D.? He becomes known has Niall of the 9 Hostages for the nine countries subdued and made tributary.

1. Munster .
2. Leinster .
3. Connacht.
4. Ulster.
5. Britain.
6. The Picts.
7. The Dal Riad
8. The Saxons
9. The Morini.

Niall had two wife’s and it is said to have had fourteen sons or twelve. Who founded their own families and dynasties in Ireland. His Reign and life ended in 404 A.D. ? assasinated by Eocha, son of Enna Cinsalach, King of Munster.

T.F. O'Rahilly in his book Early Irish History and Mythology writes:
 
I think it very likely that Eochu, the alleged slayer of Niall, was originally the mythological personage of that name, the Sun God, who was also the God of lightning. In this sense Eochu arrow or spear, and the original tradition would have meant that Niall was killed by a flash or lightning. This view receives support from the fact that Nath I's death is attributed to lightning, for the legend of Nath I's appears as i have suggested , to have been modeled that of Niall. Later our euhemerizing historians attempted, not very successfully, to convert this Eochu into a historical figure. According to a poem attributed in LL to Cinaed ua hArtacain, Niall led seven expeditions across the sea. On the last of these Eochu of the Laigin slew him, out of love for the Saxons. His men brought his body home, fighting seven battles along the way.
T.F. O'Rahilly also writes

His relationship to his 'brothers' Fiachra, Brion and Ailill, all three of them connected with Connacht, must also be treated with considerable scepticism. Brian , for instance would appear to have lived a generation or two later that Niall's time. Indeed when the early pedigree makers decided to make the three Connachtmen brothers of Niall, they apparently had some qualms about it, for they admit that Niall had a different mother, Caireen .

" the most formidable onslaught had come from Ireland under one powerful leader acting in co-operation with the Picts and Saxons." - Roman Historian Claudian

The names of the Irish Cenel nEogain and Kings, Norse , Saxon or Celtic?
Looking at the names of various Kings, Septs , Clans and Surnames of the Scottish and Gaelic tribes. It is interesting how many their Surname suggests Norse , Dane or Saxon origins.....


1. The name Niall the origin has been disputed by some saying it is of Gaelic root word 'Nel' meaning "Cloud". The Norse use the name Njall and the French - Norse variation of Njall is 'Neill' meaning " Champion".
2. Dubh " Dark" , Norse of origin Dublin : " the black pool"
3. Domhnall , " Dark or Brown"
4. Lochlainn , " Land of the Vikings" , countless reference to the Lochlainn in ancient Irish text referring to origins in Norway.
5. Murchadh, " Sea warrior" Name of several Vikings and Warriors.
6. Muireadhach ," Lord, master or sea lord"
7. Donnchadh, " Dark skinned warrior"
8. Dughall , " Dark stranger" this is said to have been a byname applied to the Danes.
9. Conaig not of Celtic origins. The Anglo - Saxon word Cyning maning "King"
a. Dutch "Koning", German" Koning", Icelandic " Konungur or Kongur", Norwegian " Konge". Possibly origins for the Irish name Conn. ( Son of Niall Glundubh of the Cenel nEogain was named Conaig)
10. Aodh or Aed meaning "fire" associated with the God The Dagda of the Tuatha de Dannan.
11. The Norwegian were called by the Gaels " Fingall".
12. The Danes were called by the Gaels " Dubhgall".



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