World Families Forums - Lineages D59 & D31

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patthepiper
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« on: February 03, 2009, 05:40:28 PM »

I could be completely wrong, but I have been checking Pedigrees (update 29 Dec 2008) against my paper records and believe that -

D-59 Sir John Dunbar, b.~1570, Avoch and D-31 Thomas Henry Dunbar b. 1784 Rasharkin are 4th. gt. grandfather/4th. gt. gson.

This is a very interesting line, and I have Scottish, Irish, Cornish and present-day Australian connections for the family.

It would be interesting to learn the relationship between the authors of these Pedigrees.

Pat Dunbar
Organiser, Dunbar Family Society (UK)

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Debra Dunbar Nowell
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 05:23:35 PM »

Hi Pat,

Your paper records may say one thing but the DNA says another.  D-59 matches Lineage 1 while D31 "could" match Lineage 2 but has not upgraded to discover if the L2 men are his genetic cousins.  I cannot declare a Lineage match until there's a genetic match at 25 markers. 

This might be a case of person trying to make the paper trail fit into the House of Dunbar pedigree.  There was no proof provided that Thomas Henry Dunbar was the son of Maj. John Dunbar & Catherine Wynn....only an assumption.  Tom Dunbar, Clan Dunbar's genealogist, worked for months trying to find the connection between the Rasharkin Dunbar's and the Ballycarney (sp) Dunbar's.  Or, this could be a case of genetic discontinuity, meaning somewhere along the line a new male "parent" was introduced into the Rasharkin Dunbar lineage.

I don't know if you've seen the House of Dunbar Pedigree chart which is available through Clan Dunbar, but about half way down, there's a large notation titled "All Dunbars Descend from Here".  I believe the person who developed the chart was thinking in terms of the Titled Dunbar's.  Too many people have taken this chart literally to mean that we all had to fit into one of these Titled families.  I'm not convinced this is true.  We know quite a bit about some of the male Dunbar's above that notation but there's so much more we don't know about all the other male Dunbar's above that notation.  Those that didn't inherit had to strike out on their own and their lineages have been lost through the centuries.

Sincerely, Debra
Dunbar DNA Project Administrator

I could be completely wrong, but I have been checking Pedigrees (update 29 Dec 2008) against my paper records and believe that -

D-59 Sir John Dunbar, b.~1570, Avoch and D-31 Thomas Henry Dunbar b. 1784 Rasharkin are 4th. gt. grandfather/4th. gt. gson.

This is a very interesting line, and I have Scottish, Irish, Cornish and present-day Australian connections for the family.

It would be interesting to learn the relationship between the authors of these Pedigrees.

Pat Dunbar
Organiser, Dunbar Family Society (UK)


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patthepiper
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 06:53:57 AM »

Hello Debra,

<Your paper records may say one thing but the DNA says another.

This was what I was after. D59 is in Lineage 1 and D31 is Unassigned. If when assigned D31 questions the 5th. g.grandfather/g.grandson relationship then records will need checking - or a scandal uncovered!

<There was no proof provided that Thomas Henry Dunbar was the son of Maj. John Dunbar & Catherine Wynn....

This is my understanding.

<...only an assumption.

Not by me. My records show the above Major John dying before 26 Sept 1712 at Ballycarney, and Thomas Henry Dunbar born possibly 1763, son of Major John Killegrew Dunbar & Elizabeth Loadman. The profusion of 'Major John's' confuses.

Regarding the House of Dunbar Pedigree Chart-

<"All Dunbars Descend from Here".  I believe the person who developed the chart was <thinking in terms of the Titled Dunbar's.

I haven't seen the final copy, but saw an early draft. You could hardly expect 'all' Dunbar's to be listed. The author was following ancient and titled lines.

<make the paper trail fit into the House of Dunbar pedigree.

Romance is not dead; many want an earl in the family.

Back to the great unwashed and the 1901 census!

Pat
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Debra Dunbar Nowell
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 11:53:14 PM »

Hi Pat,

You might want to check out this website.  It's developed by D-59's relative Linley Hooper.  D-59 descends from Capt. Frederick Dunbar, son of M. J. K. Dunbar. 

http://www.linleyfh.com/oursecondsite-p/p285.htm

Not quite half way down the page you'll run into Maj. John Killigrew Dunbar along with some very good supporting information.  She does not show any marriage with an Elizabeth Loadman or any of the Major's many children being named Thomas Henry Dunbar. 

D-31 didn't provide any further information beyond Thomas Henry Dunbar.  They haven't any supporting proof. 

Maybe you'd like to share the information/proof you have? 

You can see their markers listed on the Results page:
http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/dunbar/results

Until next time, Debra
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