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Author Topic: General Discussion of Pruett/Pruitt/Prewitt Topics  (Read 713 times)
John W. Pruett
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« on: July 30, 2014, 12:46:06 AM »

Hopefully the Pruett/Pruitt/Prewitt DNA Project will be up and running smoothly soon.  The Pruett/Pruitt/Prewitt DNA Project on Ancestry,com is shutting down on September 30, 2014.  The discussions, files, books, photo albums, and DNA Page by Family Group is currently being saved and organized by Bill Pruiett.

Ancestry,com has had many server and other problems since the closing announcement and people have not been able to get to the Pruett/Pruitt/Prewitt DNA Ancestry Project.

For the time being the Ancestry Pruett/Pruitt/Prewitt can be reached by going to : http://www.myfamily.com/group/60509555
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 04:00:15 PM by John W. Pruett » Logged

John W. Pruett
John W. Pruett
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 09:14:10 PM »

Bill Pruiett has completed an extensive download of the discussions, files, historical records/books, Richard A. Prewitt Books, photo albums, and other files from the Ancestry Pruett/Pruitt/Prewitt DNA Project. Most of these items can be reached by clicking on the link to one of our six DNA Family Groups. There is also an Other files and Albums link for the files and album not connected to one of our DNA Family Groups.

Bill has done an outstanding job with this web site which we refer to as the "Archive
site".  Hopefully more categories can be added to this web site in the future.  http://dna.pruiett.net/
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 09:23:44 PM by John W. Pruett » Logged

John W. Pruett
John W. Pruett
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2014, 05:23:04 PM »

There is now content on the Patriarch page for all Family Groups.  Hopefully more members will add their family lines to these Family Groups in the future.

Also, the Family Histories page now has descriptions for Family Groups A and F and Bill Pruiett has just added a Genealogy  Research 101 page for the  beginning genealogist that also might be useful to some of our experienced researchers.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 10:37:24 PM by John W. Pruett » Logged

John W. Pruett
John W. Pruett
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 09:15:06 PM »

Carol, I made the change on the Y-Results page by putting Abraham as William’s son on your family’s line.   I hadn’t noticed this before probably because I had seen your Patriarch, William, listed so many times as Martin’s father.  

If you go to the Family Group E on our Patriarch Page,  you should check the spellings,  dates, etc  and let me know if there are changes to be made.   I have John Thomas Prewit listed on the Patriarch Page and John Thomas Pruitt for the FT kit and am not sure which one is correct.   Bobby Clark Pruitt’s family line can also we found on the Patriarch Page just below yours, but stops before William.

Some of Richard A. Prewitt’s most popular books can be downloaded from our Pruett/Pruitt/Prewitt Archive site at: http://dna.pruiett.net/RAPbooks.php  .  

There is also a Family History Books site for other books by Richard A. Prewitt at :   https://books.familysearch.org/primo_library/libweb/action/search.do?dscnt=0&scp.scps=scope%3A%28DCMS-FHD%29&frbg=&tab=default_tab&dstmp=1365223859692&srt=rank&ct=search&mode=Basic&dum=true&indx=1&vl(1UIStartWith0)=contains&vl(freeText0)=Richard+A.+Prewitt&fn=search&vid=FHD_PUBLIC

In the past a few of the Richard A. Prewitt's books at the Family History Books site wouldn’t download correctly.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 09:24:58 PM by John W. Pruett » Logged

John W. Pruett
carol kindred
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2014, 01:50:10 AM »

Thank you, John, for all the great information and for putting Abraham as William's son.  My cousin's name is John Thomas Prewit.  It would be wonderful to get that corrected also.

I am learning this new site and finding it to work just fine.  I thank you and Bill for all your hard work keeping us together and providing a home for our Pruitt/Pruett/Prewitt DNA.

One thing I would encourage all  Pruitt donors to do is upgrade or test out to at least 67 markers.  We have so many brick walls and it might even help us determine which group is related to Thomas, the first known Pruitt in the Colonies.

Again, thanks for taking the time out from sending hundreds of emails out to answer my questions.  You are appreciated.

Happy Ancestor Hunting
Carol

Carol Wootton
Cousin to John Thomas Prewit, group E
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John W. Pruett
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2014, 04:52:12 AM »

Carol, it would be wonderful if we could get everybody to test to at least 67 markers, but that may not happen.  The FTDNA 37 Y-DNA marker test which is similar to the Ancestry 46 Y-DNA marker test works all right for determining the most common ancestor for people with the same surname in this country.  To find a person's more distant ancestors, advanced testing needs to be done.  The 67 marker test has become the standard in some projects like the R-L21.  This project usually doesn't include those below 67 markers for their research. .
 
After looking at your group, I hope James and Bobby will upgrade to your 67 markers.  Both John Thomas Prewit and James Burton Pruitt seem to basically have the same matches in the FT database.  Since James has had the 67 marker test, which is considered to be more accurate than the 37 marker test, John Thomas's matches for Doebler(1 MRCA) , S. Smith(2 MRCA), and W. Smith(2 MRCA) are listed at one generation closer than the same people to James.  If James was upgraded to 67 markers, these people should have the same MRCAs as John Thomas.  Bobby needs to transfer his DNA from Ancestry and upgrade too.     

There is no doubt that both James Burton Pruitt and John Thomas Prewit are very closely related to the Smiths when looking at their matches.  It seems they both are actually closer to C. Doebler based on the MRCA of 1 for John Thomas Prewit who matches him at the 67 marker level.

Carol, you and Polly have got your work cut out trying to determine which surname was first out of this Pruitt/Doebler/Smith cluster.  Bobby Clark Pruitt's DNA needs to transferred and upgraded to 67 markers. 
If Bobby's MRCAs remain high and somewhere in the ballpark of the 19 MRCA he had on Ancestry, that might mean the most common ancestor for all of you would not be your documented William (d1817), but some Pruitt further back about 7 generations.  This older most common ancestor based on Bobby's 19 MRCA might mean the Pruitts were the original surname in this cluster. 

You have quite a puzzle and that 1 MRCA for C. Doebler is very unusual which you don't see very often. 

FamilyGroupE           
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John W. Pruett
Bill Pruiett
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2014, 09:26:50 AM »

I think we have to be careful about using the MRCA's that FTDNA calculates. They are using a very low threshold for their calculation. An article at http://dna-explained.com/2012/08/06/what-does-mcra-really-mean/ suggests that we use the 50% threshold in our MRCA calculations. In that case C. Doebler and John Thomas Prewitt are 2-3 generations apart. In looking at my Family Group F, this 50% threshold works very well and is more consistent with the MRCA results that Ancestry calculated and is consistent with our documented family trees.
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Bill Pruiett
carol kindred
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2014, 11:37:23 AM »

John and Bill,
Thanks for this discussion and info.

C Doebler (MRCA 1) has traced his y line back to a Benjamin Smith, b 1779/1780 NC m.  Celia Hall.  S Smith (MRCA 2) has traced his to a William Mc Vey Smith 1880, KY but from the last info I have , he thinks he has found his connection to Benjamin Smith. W Smith i(MCRA ) is fairly new tester and I don't have his information yet.

You can go to the Smith Surname Project to see the cluster of Smiths connected to my John Thomas Prewit  Search his kit number 235966 .  Also look at the family tree section. There are some interesting notes on S Smiths pedigree/family Tree info

I will be contacting these Smiths again and get an update, and in W Smiths case, new info. 

I  too hope that  Bobby Clark Pruitt will transfer his results to FTDNA and that at the next sale (Christmas time?) both James Burton Pruitt and Bobby Clark Pruitt will upgrade to the valuable 67 marker test!

After the info you have both provided me, I am more inclined to believe that Pruitt is the first surname not Smith. But would love to solve this mystery, especially the connection between John Thimas Prewit and C Doebler.


My long term goal is to find the parents of my most distant Pruitt, William Pruitt.

I welcome any and all suggestions  and help.

Carol

Carol Wootton
For John Thomas Prewit
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carol kindred
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2014, 11:50:31 AM »

John and Bill,
Would it be all right if I asked C Doebler, S.Smith and W Smith to join our Pruitt surname project..group E?
Carol
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Bill Pruiett
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2014, 06:15:10 PM »

Carol, it would be perfectly alright to ask them to join Group E. I've got a few non-Prew-its I'd like to have join Group F (or at least open a dialogue about our relationships) and we already have non-Prew-its in Group C. We know the non-Prew-its in Group C are definitely descended from Prew-its. This is one of the things that makes Y-DNA testing so interesting.
Bill
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Bill Pruiett
carol kindred
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2014, 06:59:28 PM »

Thanks, John.
I'll invite them to join.  Would be great to see everyone in one project
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John W. Pruett
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2014, 09:00:32 PM »

Bill, I am working with the Ancestry match files for Group A, B and C.  The future of DNA testing seems to be the terminal SNP numbers and looking at those other surnames that we are related to, similar to what we were talking about the other day with Group E.  I think we will have to get used to the fact that our Prew-it variants in our family lines only go back so far.  The date of the first use of surnames appears to vary depending on the country.

Ancestry.com according to the MRCA article you sent, lists its numbers on the conservative side compared with FT.  Even though the Ancestry numbers are very conservative they still may be useful.  Ancestry has Richard Ben Pruitt at a 14 MRCA to me with both us having the 46 marker test.  We also both tested at FT and they had us at the 3 MRCA level for the 67 marker test.  When we both upgraded to the FT 111 marker test, our MRCA was 5 which is the correct documented level for both of our lines back to Elijah Pruett who was born in 1770.

I have got my FT Big-Y results back and I match the Middleton family.  FT has a Middleton at the 15 MRCA level for me and I have a Middleton on my conservative Ancestry match list at the 27 MRCA level.  Who knows right now which is the true MRCA estimate. 

The most interesting fact is that there is the same Middleton on the Group C match list at the 28 MRCA level.  Group C has many Prew-its, Belues, etc, but they are not related to my Group A at all.  From this its looking like there might be a Pruett-Middleton Cluster sometime between 450-800 years ago using 25 years for each generation.  I think some say 30 years should be used fro each generation.  Its very possible there was a common ancestor of these three different lineages: The Middletons, Prewitts(Group C)  and Pruetts(Group A) some time in the past.  As more people take the Big-Y test, I am sure there will be more lineages than three from that common ancestor.
                       
Bill I hope you have your Group F match list and will sent it to me.  Ancestry will destroy everybody's match lists after September 30th which is a shame. 
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John W. Pruett
carol kindred
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2014, 10:34:52 PM »

John,
Do you recommend,  at this time,  upgrading my John Thomas Prewit to  111 markers, the Big Y or some other individual SNPs? Or should I hold pat until more group E Pruitts (or Smiths or ?) test.

Enjoyed reading your  post...great food for thought. Amazing how far we have come in a short period of time.  And it will only get better in the years ahead.  What you and  others are doing with advanced DNA testing is ground breaking.  Thank you for blazing the trail and sharing what you have learned.

On a rather disappointing note..I have not heard back from any of my three Smith cousins.  Will give it a few more days and then go to plan B.

Carol
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John W. Pruett
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2014, 03:18:39 AM »

Carol, the bottom line on Y-DNA testing is that the more markers you test, the better the results will be.  I don't know why any company offers the basically useless 12 marker test.  It only tells you that your family was from Western Europe(R1b) or from the Nordic countries (It/Ib),etc..  The 25 marker test is not much better.  The 37 marker test, which is similar to the Ancestry 46 marker test, does let us determine our Family Groups fairly well.

The 67 markers is much better and allows a much more accurate list of your matches and MRCA numbers.  However, I have close matches of 6 MRCAs with a Morris and Smith at 67 markers that drop out completely on my list at 111.  It seems that in this case the 111 marker is a lot more accurate than the 67 and I can't explain why this happens except that the Morris and Smith must have never really been very close to me.

I hope everyone will upgrade to the 67 marker test when FT has its sales during the year.  One sale just ended last week. 

In your case you have the 67 marker test and maybe you need to wait a while before doing anything.  The Big-Y has overwhelmed FT right now and they haven't upgraded their draft tree.  Someone said they are still using their 2012 draft tree in 2014.  Many people have taken additional testing and their correct terminal SNP is not showing on their FT results.  I would suggest waiting and consider skipping the 111 marker test and going directly to the Big-Y test in the future, if FT reduces the price sharply.  The Big-Y is 492 markers so there wouldn't be that much to gain in your case by going to the 111 marker test.  In the meantime you have your line, the line of James Burton Pruitt, and Bobby  Clark Pruitt's line to study.  Bobby Clark's line might be of great importance. You also the puzzle of the lines of the Doebler and Smiths to research.

I think Polly might upgrade to 67 markers and maybe you and Polly can work our something to get Bobby's DNA upgraded to 67 markers.  I don't think Bobby line is going to go back to your William, but to someone who was William's ancestor.         
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John W. Pruett
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2014, 10:27:46 PM »

Bill, thanks for the Ancestry match list for Group F.  When looking at that list and the FT matches for James  Woodson Pruitt at the 37 marker level,  it does look like the Whites, Sweeneys and Hudsons are families that could be researched in the future to see if they are closely related to Group F members.

We know the FT MRCAs are not conservative estimates like the Ancestry numbers, but these people are shown at the same livel as you are from James.   
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John W. Pruett
carol kindred
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2014, 02:29:29 PM »

John,
Thank you so much for you suggestions.  I respect your knowledge and will consider upgrading when the big Y price comes down and FTDNA gets their y tree updated. Ll

It would be wonderful if Polly would upgrade James Burton Pruitt and if Polly and I can work something out to help Bobby Clark to do likewise.  I have tried to contact both but no reply.  My aol email may be the problem.  If Polly or Bobby are reading this post....please contact me.  Email cwootton@aol.com.  Watch all those oo's and tt's it does fool the eye. 

Also, It would be great if they joined the Smith surname project.  I can help if need be. 

Chuck Doebler did contact me and he will be joining the Pruitt project.  I am waiting to hear back from the others. Bobby, C Doebler, S Smith and W Smith all have clues to Polly and my Pruitt ancestry.  I will continue to research their line and hope to find a breakthrough.

Again thanks so much

Carol
Carol Wootton for John Thomas Prewit
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